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  #241  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:30 AM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Don't forget a short action and barrel life.
I'm a big guy I'm sure I could handle the extra couple of ounces a long action weighs and if I can't pull and push the bolt the extra inch I suppose I should probably just turn in my man card for a rainbow toque. As far as barrel life goes I'm sure I will get lots of enjoyment out of it before it is wore out.
  #242  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:32 AM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
In 10 years the world will say what's a 26 nosler?, and you'll see 6.5 CM on every ammo shelf.
So the 6.5 cm is rather vanilla much like the 30-06 Or 308?
  #243  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:45 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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So the 6.5 cm is rather vanilla much like the 30-06 Or 308?
Now you're gettin it, to the point it will handily replace both.
  #244  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:51 AM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Now you're gettin it, to the point it will handily replace both.
Well since I was told a 6.5x300rum is not a good idea I'm going to corlanes to see about making it a 26 nosler. Should have the hp to eat a creedmore and be rarer then hens teeth in 10 years. Just the way I like it.
  #245  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:56 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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The best part....is that we have all these choices, and levels we can play. No longer do the factory gun/ammo purchasers sit on the sidelines to modern performance.
  #246  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:59 AM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
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I like the idea of a 6.5-300rum. I just can’t see it being worthwhile when it is so over bore. Depending on brass availability and quality the 6.5 PRC interests me. I have nothing against the 6.5 creed, it’s just that already owning a 6.5x55 and 6.5x284 it seems kind of pointless to get a creed.
  #247  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:16 AM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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I like the idea of a 6.5-300rum. I just can’t see it being worthwhile when it is so over bore. Depending on brass availability and quality the 6.5 PRC interests me. I have nothing against the 6.5 creed, it’s just that already owning a 6.5x55 and 6.5x284 it seems kind of pointless to get a creed.
That's what my gunsmith said about 6.5x300rum. It's been tried and didn't work. I liked the idea because I've got a couple hundred 300 rum brass
  #248  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:17 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Well since I was told a 6.5x300rum is not a good idea I'm going to corlanes to see about making it a 26 nosler. Should have the hp to eat a creedmore and be rarer then hens teeth in 10 years. Just the way I like it.
I had similar thoughts about my sako a7 .270 wsm i just sold...but to see about a 6.5 PRC barrel. Not easy to sell a good one. I re-examined my actual needs and wants for big game hunting and end of day that thing will go easily 400 yards further than i need or want and the PRC would add another couple hundred so...for sale. I don't have desire for overkill or really hitting things as hard as i can, very individual thing. It was a good relationship while it lasted, will always be fond of that cartridge.
  #249  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:33 AM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
I had similar thoughts about my sako a7 .270 wsm i just sold...but to see about a 6.5 PRC barrel. Not easy to sell a good one. I re-examined my actual needs and wants for big game hunting and end of day that thing will go easily 400 yards further than i need or want and the PRC would add another couple hundred so...for sale. I don't have desire for overkill or really hitting things as hard as i can, very individual thing. It was a good relationship while it lasted, will always be fond of that cartridge.
In all reality I have things that shoot near and far. Some do both. Not much of a deer hunter anymore. Don't know what a 6.5 would do any different then a 243,25-06,257 wby, 30-06, 300rum,338wm or 338 rum will do other then let in the 6.5 club. Been in clubs before.
  #250  
Old 05-18-2018, 11:05 AM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
I'm a big guy I'm sure I could handle the extra couple of ounces a long action weighs and if I can't pull and push the bolt the extra inch I suppose I should probably just turn in my man card for a rainbow toque. As far as barrel life goes I'm sure I will get lots of enjoyment out of it before it is wore out.

This is a stupid post, you cannot be this obtuse except on purpose.

Of course you can handle the extra couple of ounces and the slightly longer bolt throw, anybody can. In fact, everybody could get by just fine if the only rifle allowed under law was a savage axis chambered in .308 winchester....sometimes you might want something different though?

Personally, I've made quite a few purchase decisions around fairly insignificant details, and to suggest that the difference between a short and long action chambering is not worth considering is assinine.

I've made a lot of decisions on cosmetics alone, does that mean you are going to use a gay slur against me now?
  #251  
Old 05-18-2018, 12:50 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by SakoShooter View Post
This is a stupid post, you cannot be this obtuse except on purpose.

Of course you can handle the extra couple of ounces and the slightly longer bolt throw, anybody can. In fact, everybody could get by just fine if the only rifle allowed under law was a savage axis chambered in .308 winchester....sometimes you might want something different though?

Personally, I've made quite a few purchase decisions around fairly insignificant details, and to suggest that the difference between a short and long action chambering is not worth considering is assinine.

I've made a lot of decisions on cosmetics alone, does that mean you are going to use a gay slur against me now?
Not stupid at all. Just don't understand what great benefit of a short action is.

I could care less what colour of toque you want to wear or if handling a long action is to much work for you.
  #252  
Old 05-18-2018, 01:17 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Don't be an ass. Too much work for me? Play the fool if you like, I'm done. #shortactionsarefor*****s

Last edited by SakoShooter; 05-18-2018 at 01:30 PM.
  #253  
Old 05-18-2018, 01:39 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
In all reality I have things that shoot near and far. Some do both. Not much of a deer hunter anymore. Don't know what a 6.5 would do any different then a 243,25-06,257 wby, 30-06, 300rum,338wm or 338 rum will do other then let in the 6.5 club. Been in clubs before.
I think my draw to this club isn't as much about it being the 6.5 club at all. The club i'm drawn to is more like an efficiency club. Do more with less. So although these 3 6.5's i've been mentioning...6.5 G, 6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC to me are related by the saami set up from the get go, 8 twist barrels for long for caliber bullets, cases shortened and necks lengthened to suit action/magazine lengths while using said bullets and fast twist barrels. So for similar powder burned we can extend effective range with increased b.c. and s.d.

I just so happens all that is happening around 6.5mm bullets around the 120-150 gr bullet range.

I see why, not everyone into big game thinks the 6mm bullets are as versatile, simply not enough lead being limited under 110 grains in 99% of cases. The versatility climbs exponentially for majority of north american(and elsewhere too) big game considerations as you start over 120 grains for many of us and i agree really. I argue s.d. as a good measure of penetration and it is but i still have something in my head that says i'd like throw a certain amount of lead in grains...and 120 gr and up is where i want to be on the minimums, 147 gr would still be considered light for so many who dedicate moose/elk/bear etc. but when you look how high that s.d. it's hard to ignore imo, if you don't understand s.d. then you may feel it's still not enough bullet straight up but some very large african animals have died from 160 gr 6.5 swede's and the reason is s.d. Straight target work the 6mm is tough to beat imo but go to 120 gr, 130, 140, 147 gr 6.5mm and your versatility to big game application just seems to go way up imo. There was clearly a hole and they had to not use the .260 moniker or it would never have gotten off the ground in north america like it has imo. The .257/.260/.264/.270/.277/.284/7mm all have their long ingrained reputations here to overcome. The 6.5mm might have been the best choice to go in terms of marketing(instead of .260 or .264 anything) but it seems the right choice for all practical reasons too, it's a versatile blend of the attributes of the bulk of what we know landing in the middle of the .243/.257/.264/.277/.284

I can't see .25 or .277 being the one to develop out in this new direction of efficiency and the 6mm and 7mm already pretty well modernized by now.

I think the quarter bore has a bit of room and largely ignored lately but still not offer quite the versatility of the 6.5mm. They'd have to follow the efficiency formula though. I imagine a 130-140 gr .25 cal bullets would roll on a .270 130/140 gr pretty badly in both down range performance and penetration ability, wonder what those b.c.'s and s.d.'s would look like? Put a 135 gr .25 cal eld-m in a PRC case and call it the 257 Speed Goat.
  #254  
Old 05-18-2018, 01:40 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by SakoShooter View Post
Don't be an ass. Too much work for me? Play the fool if you like, I'm done. #shortactionsarefor*****s
Well what is the benefit of a short action? Weight and length of bolt? Is there anything else?
  #255  
Old 05-18-2018, 01:51 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Not stupid at all. Just don't understand what great benefit of a short action is.

I could care less what colour of toque you want to wear or if handling a long action is to much work for you.
The benefit of the short action is you can't get a Nula model 20 in any other action, and the model 20 is the only reason I'm buying a new rifle.
  #256  
Old 05-18-2018, 02:00 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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The benefit of the short action is you can't get a Nula model 20 in any other action, and the model 20 is the only reason I'm buying a new rifle.
Ok lol. If that's what it comes in then that's what it is.
  #257  
Old 05-18-2018, 02:03 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Ok lol. If that's what it comes in then that's what it is.
Model 20, the original Melvin Forbes ultralight rifle. I wanted to get one before he retires, I've already got the model 24 long action.
  #258  
Old 05-18-2018, 02:21 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Model 20, the original Melvin Forbes ultralight rifle. I wanted to get one before he retires, I've already got the model 24 long action.
So just personal preference is what it boils down to?
  #259  
Old 05-18-2018, 02:27 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Model 20, the original Melvin Forbes ultralight rifle. I wanted to get one before he retires, I've already got the model 24 long action.
I have similar dreams of a Nula Model 20 Short by Melvin in the 6.5 Grendel! Good taste man! I'd be a half pound lighter than you but you could go another 250 yards....hmmm. How far is far enough.

I'd love mine more than you loved yours.
  #260  
Old 05-18-2018, 03:15 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Well what is the benefit of a short action? Weight and length of bolt? Is there anything else?
I'm responding against my better judgment and am not interested in a ****ing match, but here goes...


- Length of bolt which equals length of rifle. This may not matter to everyone, but I would argue that it's a far more significant and quantifiable factor in deciding on a rifle/cartridge combo than many that are frequently cited on internet forums and in gunshops as deal makers/breakers.

- Weight is a big one for many people If you have ever tried to go lightweight you will know that it costs big $$ to cut ounces, the choice of a short action can govw you ounces for free. This is not nothing, don't try to pretend it shouldn't matter just because it doesn't matter to you.
In addition, ammo is lighter for short action cartridges, for people who cut the handle off of their toothbrushes, I'd say that counts.

- Effeciency, less powder burned, etc. This might not matter if you sight in your rifle with 3-5 shots every fall before hunting season, but for people who like to shoot for fun, it's a money saver.
In addition, there's the benefit of reduced recoil with these shorter and more effecient chamberings.

- Muzzle blast and recoil. As above, not a big deal if you sight in and go hunting, but a massive benefit if the rifle will double as a range gun.
Can you get low recoiling long action loads? Of course, but they won't outperform a short action cartridge, and will not share some of the other benefits of a shorter action, so are inherently a compromise solution.

- Scope mounting. A big one for me personally as Inlike to use one piece ringmounts, rather than seperate rings and bases, when at all possible. Can you get offset bases and cantilever rings? Obviously, but they are again, a compromise that is not neccesary with most short action rifles. I have often made scope purchasing decisions around the rifle and mounting system I prefer, in fact, I recently sold a Zeiss Conquest 2-10×42 that at 5.3 inches of tube length, didn't quite fit on a .270 Sako 85.

I will just state here, I am not a 6.5 Creedmoor fanboy by any means, I do own a Ruger Hawkeye Predator so chambered, and I enjoy it's low recoil and accuracy. I don't care if people want to knock the Creed, doesn't bother me in the least if you all hate it, what does bother me are illogical and poorly supported arguments such as, "you will lose game" or "short actions are for sissies who wear rainbow toques and are too weak to cycle a long action". This bothers me because it's lazy, innacurate rhetoric that boils down to "I want to argue against this, so ill just say some things that sound good in my head".

I only jumped into this thread (page 1 or 2 I think) because marky_mark or whoever was saying the 6.5 creed isn't good for hunting deer. That is an absurd statement in my opinion, and I will hold up the ballistically inferior (in factory loads anyways) 6.5×55 as irrefutable evidence of it's effectiveness. If that makes me an emotionally reactive creed fanboy, then so be it.
Now I'm responding to the rather pointlessly ignorant assertion that short actions have no inherent differences from long actions that are noticable to a man healthy enough to brave the outdoors sans his gay pride rainbow toque. I will repeat, this is a stupid argument, doesn't neccesarily make the arguer a stupid person, just bullheaded and obtuse in this instance ;-)

Are short actions superior to live actions? Of course not, as a blanket statement, that would be a ridiculous argument to attempt to defend. Both shprt and lomg actions do however have their various and sundry compromises and triumphs when compared to other cartridges and rifles.
I have more long actions than short actually, and I have never, and never will argue that magnums are for men with smaller plumbing, or that the 6.5 creedmoor is a 600yd elk round, or that a .30 calibre magnum is the minimum for moose, or any other of the various and sundry fallacies you see on internet forums
Live, and let live. Just don't make irrelevant and/or ignorant statements that add nothing useful to the discussion and the world will be a better place.
  #261  
Old 05-18-2018, 04:07 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
So just personal preference is what it boils down to?
Nothing can be quantified as being the best in regards to cartridge selection because everything about it is based on personal preference. You can say one is the best in total distance possible to fling a projectile, one is best in sending energy down range (neither of which would be considered a hunting cartridge), one can say the best cartridge in terms of recoil, action length, efficiency, noise, ballistic co-efficient, cost of ammo, availability of ammo, popularity, rareness, looks, smell, whatever, it's all personal preference.

What we're talking about here is what sets the 6.5 Creedmoor above most cartridges in its class. Most aspects have been covered in this thread, but in all honesty if you were to list the pros and cons of every cartridge ever developed, the Creedmoor would be high up in the rankings, all things considered of course.
  #262  
Old 05-18-2018, 04:14 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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I do appreciate your thoughts on the short action benefits. I shoot a fair bit and many of your points maybe valid in your opinion but mean squat in mine. I prefer more horse power at the end of my stroke. Sure the 6.5 cm will be a adequate deer cartridge. That I have no doubt but at the end of the day my thoughts are I'd rather be over gunned then under. This means more to me then a ounce.

Further more unless I call you mom or dear I don't think you're in the position to judge what is irrelevant or ignorant.
  #263  
Old 05-18-2018, 04:27 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
I do appreciate your thoughts on the short action benefits. I shoot a fair bit and many of your points maybe valid in your opinion but mean squat in mine. I prefer more horse power at the end of my stroke. Sure the 6.5 cm will be a adequate deer cartridge. That I have no doubt but at the end of the day my thoughts are I'd rather be over gunned then under. This means more to me then a ounce.

Further more unless I call you mom or dear I don't think you're in the position to judge what is irrelevant or ignorant.
I'm not saying anything is relavent or ignorant, but if you want a real mans gun why are you messing around with a woman's 26 nosler when every real man knows a 338-378wby in a 7 pound platform is where it's at?
  #264  
Old 05-18-2018, 05:03 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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You see, nearly all technology and nearly every decision is an act of compromise ie. power vs effeciency, form vs function, the cutting edge vs time tested and proven, the list goes on.
That's not to mention specific compromises for specific tasks, we don't use a .223 for deer, but we do for varmints, because there's a tradeoff (light recoil vs killing power) that's unique to each of those tasks.
Now, if someone who only hunts coyotes says to me "my .223 is way better than your 300 mag" he is making an incorrect statement because he's using the criteria that work for him and his applications as blanket judgements. I happen to believe that is both ignorant and irrelevant to the discussion at large.

People who do not understand, or will not admit this are the people who feel that others should make the same compromises that they have, and say things like "the 26 Nosler is better than the 6.5 creedmoor". Different tastes and applications mean different compromises.

Different strokes for different folks.
  #265  
Old 05-18-2018, 05:37 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by SakoShooter View Post
You see, nearly all technology and nearly every decision is an act of compromise ie. power vs effeciency, form vs function, the cutting edge vs time tested and proven, the list goes on.
That's not to mention specific compromises for specific tasks, we don't use a .223 for deer, but we do for varmints, because there's a tradeoff (light recoil vs killing power) that's unique to each of those tasks.
Now, if someone who only hunts coyotes says to me "my .223 is way better than your 300 mag" he is making an incorrect statement because he's using the criteria that work for him and his applications as blanket judgements. I happen to believe that is both ignorant and irrelevant to the discussion at large.

People who do not understand, or will not admit this are the people who feel that others should make the same compromises that they have, and say things like "the 26 Nosler is better than the 6.5 creedmoor". Different tastes and applications mean different compromises.

Different strokes for different folks.
Agreed
  #266  
Old 05-18-2018, 05:37 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Less powder generally equates to a pile more bullets down range.
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  #267  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:33 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Less powder generally equates to a pile more bullets down range.
More gun powder generally equates to a lots less tracking
  #268  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:38 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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What did I miss on here?? Lol
  #269  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:48 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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More gun powder generally equates to a lots less tracking
Wrong. You can’t fool people that know.
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  #270  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:50 PM
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I never thought asking for a rifle recommendation would result in this thread hahaha awesome
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