Annealing brass

[W921]

Ever tried a cordless drill with a,socket to set case in. Drill will hold and rotate case as you heat with torch and count and watch for color change. Let case slowly cool off on bench.
What system do you use and do you get consistent neck tensions?

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by W921

Ever tried a cordless drill with a,socket to set case in. Drill will hold and rotate case as you heat with torch and count and watch for color change. Let case slowly cool off on bench.
What system do you use and do you get consistent neck tensions?

I use that very system. I did go to a welding shop and get a heat crayon. First three cases i go until the crayon melts and count the time. From then on i just count it.

[wallz]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

I use that very system. I did go to a welding shop and get a heat crayon. First three cases i go until the crayon melts and count the time. From then on i just count it.

Set a timer on your phone, as it will be easier than counting.


I made an induction annealer so at 3.2 seconds for the heating cycle it would be difficult to count it out.

[6MT]

Op, are you not using Templilaq?

[W921]

Originally Posted by 6MT

Op, are you not using Templilaq?

No ive never annealed yet. I had a friend talking about this and then I looked up on u tube and found conflicting ways of doing this.
It seems like its so hard to get components and maybe components will never be cheap or available again so maybe I should look into this and makes brass last longer.
I don't want to turn this into a great big project and have to buy a bunch of equipment.
You guys on here seem to know your stuff so I thought I would ask here

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by wallz

Set a timer on your phone, as it will be easier than counting.


I made an induction annealer so at 3.2 seconds for the heating cycle it would be difficult to count it out.

Yah im not even close to that precise. I only anneal every 5th firing. And get really good brass life at that. Can you honestly see difference at say 3, 3.2, or even 4 seconds? I get zero measurable difference in group size out to 1k but do see an increase in brass life. Minimal resizing also makes a big difference. I have some 300wm winchester brass that has 12 loadings on it and still no cracked necks or case head separations.

[FishOutOfWater]

This is a very common practice among reloaders "on a budget"... Myself included.

A little tip I picked up - make your work area dark so you can see the case neck just starting to turn red-hot before you remove it from the heat.

https://youtu.be/wiCkGwRieU4?si=NoaLzA2HnMwcPF8D&t=530

[wallz]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Yah im not even close to that precise. I only anneal every 5th firing. And get really good brass life at that. Can you honestly see difference at say 3, 3.2, or even 4 seconds? I get zero measurable difference in group size out to 1k but do see an increase in brass life. Minimal resizing also makes a big difference. I have some 300wm winchester brass that has 12 loadings on it and still no cracked necks or case head separations.

Bit of a thread side, but learning either way.

On the induction annealer, yea for sure the 3 compared to the 4 second anneal is a huge difference. The 4 sec might just melt the brass, it is just that quick.

I anneal every firing now. More consistent neck tension is what I have found. I set up my main range rifle to have a tight headspace and really only bump 1-2 thousandths. I found after annealing that bump was more consistent, and the same as seating the bullets. Just a more consistent measurement with less tinkering. I seat my bullets to within 1 thousandths of each other with little messing around to get there. Yea I know my calipers have a .0005 tolerance, but I'm within .001 on all the rounds I load.

Does is make a difference on the range. To me it does as I get tighter groups. Do I measure that difference. Nope.

[markg]

Does Annealing make a difference? Yes. I made some rounds that were annealed and some that were not. Same powder charge using Autotrickler V4, so very precise.
The SD on the rounds was lower by 10 fps.
They went from a SD of 17 down to 7

[6.5 shooter]

Eric Cortina does a torture test on brass. The results may surprise some of you.

Does a drill, a socket and a torch work? the answer is sort of. Hard to keep thing consistent but it works.... sort of.

[W921]

Originally Posted by FishOutOfWater

This is a very common practice among reloaders "on a budget"... Myself included.

A little tip I picked up - make your work area dark so you can see the case neck just starting to turn red-hot before you remove it from the heat.

https://youtu.be/wiCkGwRieU4?si=NoaLzA2HnMwcPF8D&t=530

Yeah this is technique I was talking about. Just do a count one one thousands, 2 one thousands ,3 three one thousands? Possible 4 one thousands?

[Dmay]

Originally Posted by W921

Yeah this is technique I was talking about. Just do a count one one thousands, 2 one thousands ,3 three one thousands? Possible 4 one thousands?

That's the most basic of methods. Get some Tempilaq so you have an idea about temperature.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by markg

Does Annealing make a difference? Yes. I made some rounds that were annealed and some that were not. Same powder charge using Autotrickler V4, so very precise.
The SD on the rounds was lower by 10 fps.
They went from a SD of 17 down to 7

Of course annealing makes a difference, no argument there. My Question was does annealing for 3.2 seconds make a noticable difference from say 3 onethousands.. does the accuracy of .2 of a second make a noticeable difference in group sizes? I have had fantastic results in both brass life and accuracy/ SD using the old deep socket and counting method. Just wondering if there is appreciable/ measurable differences between the methods? That are worth the $$ in set up costs?

[FishOutOfWater]

Originally Posted by Dmay

That's the most basic of methods. Get some Tempilaq so you have an idea about temperature.

Even Eric Cortina doesn't waste his time or money on Tempilaq. Just as easy to watch and remove it from the heat when it's "done".

https://youtu.be/2yOtCQsfJhU?si=0imSu4SwIYEU0ULf&t=420

[catnthehat]

The big question is :
Does annealing make a difference in noticeable accuracy for a PRS rifle or a hunting rifle where the accuracy parameters are completely different to a SBR or an F/O rifle?
I personally do not think so.
Cat

[HW223]

Very few in sbr are doing any annealing (only one that I know of and I think even he has stopped ) the need for annealing is more a function of chamber reamer and sizing dies that match(or rather do not match ) than anything to do with pressure. Fix that and all the brass issues go away .One of our sbr competitors is currently running a test on annealing , tracking two sets of brass through many firings and agg sizes to see if there is any gain , so far no improvement on aggs, time will tell on the brass life.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by HW223

Very few in sbr are doing any annealing (only one that I know of and I think even he has stopped ) the need for annealing is more a function of chamber reamer and sizing dies that match(or rather do not match ) than anything to do with pressure. Fix that and all the brass issues go away .One of our sbr competitors is currently running a test on annealing , tracking two sets of brass through many firings and agg sizes to see if there is any gain , so far no improvement on aggs, time will tell on the brass life.

Exactly, yet annealing is done by shooters who absolutly tell me it improves their groups. These same shooters are running custom Chambers and matched brass as well.
I know far more F class shooters that anneal that do not.
However Many well know Winning l9ng range shooters say " anneal every time or not at all"
I learned to make 6mm International brass for 300 meter shooting when I was young, and the brass was initially annealed when forming only.
I anneal my Snider brass and the brass for the 40/64 once when forming it ,as well as the 8.15x46R Shuetzen then fogedaboutit
The AO 6mmBR rifle was chambered by fps plus , and one lot of brass has close to 20 firings on it now , with accuracy and case life being stellar , with four lost cases only in 175.
That brass will still shoot Vbulls for me up to 900 meters if I make a good wind call . Same as my .223 Wylde chambered RPA match rifle .

I am a firm believer that annealing will not help my scores at my age - not that They could not inprove, but i need to concentrate on other things first.
However if a person thinks it will help it may just do that Cat

[markg]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Of course annealing makes a difference, no argument there. My Question was does annealing for 3.2 seconds make a noticable difference from say 3 onethousands.. does the accuracy of .2 of a second make a noticeable difference in group sizes? I have had fantastic results in both brass life and accuracy/ SD using the old deep socket and counting method. Just wondering if there is appreciable/ measurable differences between the methods? That are worth the $$ in set up costs?

If your worried about cost I know that AGS Annealer is sold on Amazon for $290.00 Canadian Peso's they are good value for price paid.

[markg]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The big question is :
Does annealing make a difference in noticeable accuracy for a PRS rifle or a hunting rifle where the accuracy parameters are completely different to a SBR or an F/O rifle?
I personally do not think so.
Cat

I would agree with you Cat. No need for hunting or plinking

Reduced Standard Deviation (SD and ES) Extreme spread factor into things when your streching your shots out to 500 or more meters.

[markg]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Yah im not even close to that precise. I only anneal every 5th firing. And get really good brass life at that. Can you honestly see difference at say 3, 3.2, or even 4 seconds? I get zero measurable difference in group size out to 1k but do see an increase in brass life. Minimal resizing also makes a big difference. I have some 300wm winchester brass that has 12 loadings on it and still no cracked necks or case head separations.

Your group size doesnt change at 1,000M? I would have guessed that with a lower ES your vertical dispersion would be lower as well. Interesting.

I was also interested if your have less flyers when you were annealing? I have just started doing it personally, I havent seen any change in group size at 100m but as I stated before my ES and SD are way down.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by markg

I would agree with you Cat. No need for hunting or plinking

Reduced Standard Deviation (SD and ES) Extreme spread factor into things when your streching your shots out to 500 or more meters.

A good wind call is far more important IMO past 500.
Cat

[ramonmark]

Originally Posted by W921

Ever tried a cordless drill with a,socket to set case in. Drill will hold and rotate case as you heat with torch and count and watch for color change. Let case slowly cool off on bench.
What system do you use and do you get consistent neck tensions?

I do this exact same thing but in my man cave with all the lights off. At first your eyes have to adjust once they do you could easily see the color change on the brass. Then I just dropped them into a big coffee tin that way don't have to touch them and burn my fingers :-)

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by markg

Your group size doesnt change at 1,000M? I would have guessed that with a lower ES your vertical dispersion would be lower as well. Interesting.

I was also interested if your have less flyers when you were annealing? I have just started doing it personally, I havent seen any change in group size at 100m but as I stated before my ES and SD are way down.

I shoot hunting rifles mostly and while i do take most of them out to 1k i have not seen much variation in group size that can be attributed to annealing at that distance. I only anneal ever 5th loading and group sizes dont vary much after annealing my es and sd dont change that much as all my good loads are single digit as it is. Meaning my 1k groups are right about moa no matter what. The difference i was mostly referring to was wether my counting to 3 and a machine doing 3.2 seconds makes a difference. My set up cost pennys and gets results. Will spending $250 get me noticable better results?

[W921]

Originally Posted by ramonmark

I do this exact same thing but in my man cave with all the lights off. At first your eyes have to adjust once they do you could easily see the color change on the brass. Then I just dropped them into a big coffee tin that way don't have to touch them and burn my fingers :-)

So I did 50 rounds and all went well eventually. The counting method does not work I suspect as well because of distance to flame or possible angle???
Anyway the low light conditions, drill and I stopped as soon as I noticed the brass starting to change color. Dropped brass in a cookie sheet to cool.

All seemed to go well.

Thanks everyone

[6.5 shooter]

Cost analysis:

AMP Annealer ~ $2000. All in with shell holders etc.

20 years = 240 months. Cost per month = $8.30 per month or 7300 days over 20 years = $0.274 cents per day.

No drills, no darkened rooms, no possibility of starting the house on fire from an open flame.

AMP = Consistent and repeatable results. No guessing, no hoping, fast etc.

Go cheap, buying multiple times so you can buy more cheap crap to get so so results, eventually spending more money in the long run.

Buy once cry once.