ACA, HFT and the AFGA?

[Bull Shooter]

Over the past several months (brought to light by the Open Spaces Alberta proposal), I have been struggling with the structure and mandates of the Alberta Conservation Association and the Hunting for Tomorrow Foundation.

Admittedly, my knowledge of these organizations is rather limited to what they have provided on their respective websites, but at first glance it appears that they are completely superfluous to what is currently (or should be) offered through the Alberta Fish & Game Association or Sustainable Resources. Both groups claim to represent Alberta’s hunters and rely on funding from the same. The Alberta Conservation Association appears to rely on a fair bit of government funding and input.

Can the ACA really purport to represent Alberta’s hunters when it appears that it is not an autonomous organization as it relies heavily on Government funding, input and perhaps influence? It would appear to me that some of the functions or work carried out by the ACA should be directed back to SRD and any additional representation or current efforts could be carried out by the Alberta Fish & Game Association.

I find myself thinking that the Hunting for Tomorrow Foundation is a further unnecessary duplication of efforts and resources.

Is there too much fragmentation in hunter representation in the Province of Alberta? From what I have observed over the past four months I think there are too many agendas. I think it would make much better sense to consolidate many of the efforts and duties currently conducted by ACA and HFT back to the AFGA (if the AFGA was willing) and return some back to the Province where they belong. In this direction, I think I would be much more comfortable with my representation as a hunter, angler and outdoors person in Alberta.

What extraordinary benefits or representation do Alberta hunters receive from the ACA and HFT that might not be available through consolidation with the AFGA? I honestly do not know and that is why I am asking the question. My observations for what they are worth. Regards, Mike

[bruceba]

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[bruceba]

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[Bull Shooter]

Bruce, you are correct. There is a fair bit of “cross-representation” on the Board of Directors of these organizations and others including APOS and AHEIA. Given some of the funding and support, I suppose some of this may be necessary. But I think it also begs the question, why do we have so many groups that are apparently doing the same thing, funded by Albertans and Alberta hunters and all claiming to represent Alberta hunters? It sure seems to me to be a tremendous waste of time and money and only serves to reduce the effectiveness of a true hunter membership organization such as the AFGA (especially when they are all seemingly given equal "negotiating" weight). Given the recent Open Spaces fiasco, it appears to me that their only role at the table is/was to thoroughly confuse the issue through (mis)representation. Regards, Mike

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by bruceba

Bull Shooter I have also wondered about some other information that came to light through out the digging into OSA. Was it not brought out that board members with these organizations and others not mentioned here are quite often the same people. Does that not bring out a conflict of interest when they wear that many hats.

Most of this stuff is just a summary of things pointed out to me by a couple of AO members, and was info that came to light during the OS threads.

For starters check out the Edmonton addresses for AHEIA and HFT.

You'll have to filter through all the links to see the people that are common on multiple boards. Of course there is the one invidual who is appointed by the Minister to the APOS board, who also sits on the HFT board, and the AHEIA board. Now just to confuse things APOS and AHEIA are member groups of ACA. On the HFT board the member groups include the ACA, AHEIA, APOS. I am only giving a small sample of all the overlap between both inviduals and groups, but you get the picture. Sure seems like a lot redundancy.

http://www.huntingfortomorrow.com/index.htm

http://www.apos.ab.ca/index.htm

http://www.ab-conservation.com/index.asp

http://www.aheia.com/Main

http://www.afga.org/

It would be pretty hard to have one master when you wear all those hats

I'm liking the idea of rolling all of these groups into the AFGA. One unified voice would be good. No reason they can't all still do all of the things they need to.


I also think that we need to take a serious look at the ACA, how the money is handled, who gets to decide how it is spent etc. Might have started as a good thing but I think it needs a house cleaning.

[Bull Shooter]

Duk, “a lot of redundancy” may be the understatement of the year! I worry that most hunters and taxpayers (to a lesser degree) have absolutely no idea that these groups claim to represent hunters and their interests but ultimately do not seek out or rely on the input of the group(s) they claim to represent.

As confusing as the cross-membership of the various boards, is the cross-support of the organizations. Each organization is largely made up of the same individuals from the same “supporting” organizations and somehow they claim to be separate and distinct?

When I look at the goals and objectives of these organizations, I fail to see any service or benefit that they provide that is not or could not be provided by the AFGA or SRD. Because SRD appears to be giving them equal weight in representing Alberta’s hunters (surprise, surprise), the ACA and HFT completely undermine fair and democratic representation for Alberta’s hunters, anglers and outdoors people.

I think the best solution is to consolidate these groups (and individuals) into the AFGA where feasible and return some of the duties back to the Province. We would rid ourselves of the redundancy and create economic, communication, education and representation synergies.

I am very uncomfortable with this “mock” representation and would prefer a much stronger and more effective voice through the AFGA similar to the model used by the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation. My thoughts anyway. Regards, Mike

Originally Posted by Bull Shooter

I think the best solution is to consolidate these groups (and individuals) into the AFGA where feasible and return some of the duties back to the Province. We would rid ourselves of the redundancy and create economic, communication, education and representation synergies.

I am very uncomfortable with this “mock” representation and would prefer a much stronger and more effective voice through the AFGA similar to the model used by the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation. My thoughts anyway. Regards, Mike

Don't forget accountability to those they claim to represent.

Can anyone tell me what a delegated authority is? How do they work? what is their function?

[Bull Shooter]

Just to bring everyone up to speed, the following is the link to the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation website:

http://www.swf.sk.ca/index.jsp

I think it is especially relevant to note that the AFGA has approximately 17,000 members, the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation has 25,000 members. I think that number, given the comparative populations of Alberta and Saskatchewan, speaks volumes in regard to representation and participation. Regards, Mike

[steelhead]

There should be 2 distinct entities for fishing and hunting and the ACA and AFGA dont give a flying flip about the fishing in this province. All the money for fishing goes to hunting and forest fire fighting and you can tell, look at the state of the fisheries in the last 15 years. They just cut limits, make it all barbless, a little bit about CnR, close fisheries, and let the commercial fishers run rampant. They thought that was a good cheap fix, but it backfired. What a lame cheap attemt at fixing the fisheries without spending money. And an even lamer walleye stocking program, What a joke. You can tell how much they care about fisheries as there is very little to nothing for fisheries projects and a 16th of the cash heading fisheries way. And if you look at thier sites, projects and financial statements you can see this discrepency. They should have hid it better.

Be glad that you have these organizations on your side as a hunter.

Because they dont do diddly squat for our fisheries. When they say all the money from fishing liscences go back to the fisheries, they are lying out thier teeth.


Its a big boys club and they all have hunting cabins and the strictest rules in thier zones

Its not the government that is destroying the fisheries, it is these organizations that are doing it. Its a bunch of yahoos whith the power and the money and no clue of how to disperse funds correctly and fairly. And they have done a cruddy job of hiding thier intentions in the last 15 years. Individuals at the head of these organizations should be switched out every 4 years so that individuals who are watching from the bleachers can see where they are lacking and shift the momentum to more important projects.

A fish and game accociation who doesnt care about the fish (they published thier lack of interest in the fisheries, take a look)..........

.......... Now that sounds pretty Albertan.


Steelhead

[Bull Shooter]

Steelhead, I am honestly unfamiliar with a lot of your claims or observations. I am a bit of a neophyte to a lot of this. I doubt that any organization is perfect, but as a hunter, angler or outdoors person, I would be much more comfortable with representation that is elected by its membership.

I would hope that there is an opportunity to elect individuals (and hold them accountable) that best represent your interests as an angler. Perhaps this fragmentation has further reduced some of the effectiveness of the AFGA in particular areas? I do not know that for sure, but I do know that is is confusing and a better model must be found. Good luck to us all! Regards, Mike

Originally Posted by steelhead

Its not the government that is destroying the fisheries, it is these organizations that are doing it. Its a bunch of yahoos whith the power and the money and no clue of how to disperse funds correctly and fairly. And they have done a cruddy job of hiding thier intentions in the last 15 years. Individuals at the head of these organizations should be switched out every 4 years so that individuals who are watching from the bleachers can see where they are lacking and shift the momentum to more important projects.

A fish and game accociation who doesnt care about the fish (they published thier lack of interest in the fisheries, take a look)..........

.......... Now that sounds pretty Albertan.


Steelhead

I am in total agreement with you that the fisheries are in bad shape. But I place the blame on the government and there desire to get out of the wildlife business. The groups that run up to help out when the government are failing just send the message to govt that the more they step back the more someone is willing to come up with the resources to fill the gap - look at Streamwatch.

I disagree in separate groups though - that is why we have the troubles we do. One voice is stronger. We just need it to be accountable.

How many fishing licenses are sold & what is the amount of money generated?

How about hunting licenses, draws, draw applications etc?


I also agree that the money is not spread around correctly Steelhead. But like Bullshooter said, I would rather have an elected group in charge of this - at least then you can change the direction when they lose focus.

[Bull Shooter]

So we are paying for these groups. Are you comfortable with your representation? Regards, Mike

A bit of a backgrounder:

The Alberta Conservation Association:

Formed in 1997, the Alberta Conservation Association (ACA) is a provincial, non-profit, registered charitable association that is committed to conserve, protect and enhance wildlife, fish and habitat for all Albertans to enjoy, value and use. Evolving originally from the Alberta Fish and Wildlife Trust Fund, ACA is governed by a multi-stakeholder Board of Directors represented by hunting and fishing organizations, conservation groups, government and First Nations’, Public at Large, industry and academic representatives.

ACA and its staff of conservation specialists initiate and oversee a wide variety of provincially run programs that support Alberta Sustainable Resource Development (ASRD) in their role in the development and implementation of management plans (my emphasis). Each program is continually reassessed to reflect current conservation priorities in Alberta. These programs encompass Wildlife, Fisheries, Land Management, Human Interaction and Waterfowl Crop Damage Control.

The Hunting for Tomorrow Foundation:

OUR MISSION

To foster and increase public understanding, involvement and support of hunting. To ensure opportunities for every Albertan to hunt within a management system that conserves the wildlife resource.

OUR GOALS

To increase the number of people participating in hunting and it’s associated activities within the limits of sustainable wildlife conservation;
To maintain and enhance hunting opportunities and experiences in the province such that hunters are encouraged to stay in the activity and new participants are attracted to it;

To increase public acceptance of hunting as a traditional outdoor activity, improve the awareness of our natural environment and the importance of hunting as a wildlife management tool.

How is this any different than what the AFGA is doing? And remember, AFGA supports HFT

The Alberta Fish & Game Association:

The Alberta Fish and Game Association is a volunteer-based, not-for-profit charitable organization that advocates the common interests of ethical hunters, anglers and outdoor enthusiasts dedicated to the responsible stewardship of Alberta’s environment. The AFGA is recognized by all levels of government as the official spokesmen for organized hunters and anglers interested in the conservation of fish and wildlife.

In one form or another, the AFGA has been active since 1908, however, it wasn’t until November of 1946, that the AFGA was registered under the Alberta Societies Act.

The association has a total membership exceeding 16,000 representing approximately 100 affiliated fish and game clubs in over 100 Alberta cities, towns and villages throughout the province. Members range in age from 12 years to over 65 years in age and cover a broad cross-section of a urban/rural demographic make-up. Policy and direction is established by a 15 member volunteer executive and governed by a five-member senior executive. The association is administered through a head office in Edmonton by a staff of approximately ten full-time administrative and habitat staff.
The AFGA is a founding member of the Canadian Wildlife Federation and maintains a fraternal relationship with all provincial affiliates.

Objectives:

It is the objective of the Alberta Fish and Game Association to:
1. Promote conservation of our natural resources;
2. Foster and promote the non-commercial harvest of fish and game as a legitimate part of an overall wildlife management program;
3. Develop and promote educational and recreational programs and activities;
4. Promote and assist in the sound long term management of Alberta’s fish and wildlife in the best interest of all Albertans including future generations;
5. Insist on continued public ownership of all public lands and wildlife;
6. Obtain and maintain access to public lands;
7. Publicize the importance of fish and wildlife and proper resource management;
8. Work with government, industry, and other organizations in local programs, supporting the enhancement, development and maintenance of habitat for all species of fish and wildlife and other natural resources;
9. Promote outdoor ethics and safety; and
10. Make Albertans aware of the dangers of all forms of pollution, to prevent pollution, and to co-operate with all groups with similar objectives.

International Guiding Principles:

The AFGA adheres to the three international principles of resource conservation, developed by the World Conservation Strategy:
1. Maintain essential ecological processes and life support systems.
2. Preserve genetic diversity.
3. Ensure the sustainable utilization of species and ecosystems.

[Duk Dog]

Worthy of a BTT. The conflicts, overlaps, and redundancy of both individuals and organizations here in Alberta.

Some powerful observations Bull Shooter and others. Thank you for illuminating them.

However the democratic system only works as intended if everyone takes part. And until we all recognise that the AFGA too can only work when we all take part, I'm afraid we will continue to be fractured into so many small fires that are more easily put out, etc.

The AFGA is the voice of Alberta hunters and has been since 1908 and that voice will only rise above the rest when we give it the power it deserves through increased membership.

To paraphrase JFK, "Ask not what can our club can do for us, but what can we do for our club"?

Sharpedge

[duffy4]

Bull Shooter

In your investigations of AHEIA did you find out anything about the Minister"s permit that was for a resident hunters raffle?

The way I hear it for the last raffle, all the tickets were bought by a group of 5 well to do Calgarians. If this is true I don't think those 5 tracked down a whole lot of folks selling tickets, they must have gone right to AHEIA and bought the tckets direct from them. So the average "Joe" resident hunter did not have access to that Minister's permit.

The figures I heard was that the Auctioned off sheep permit went for ~$200,000. The raffle was 7500 tickets X $10.00 per ticket = $75,000. A bargin compared to the auctioned permit.

If you are against rich guys having an advantage over resident hunters (no matter what the benifits are to wildlife and resident hunters) then you must be conserned about this.


Robin

[Duk Dog]

I've purchased tickets for the Ministers sheep tag raffle for the last number of years, and no I am not one of 5 well to do Calgarians. These tickets were also on sale recently at the Calgary Boat & Sportsmans Show.

[Weatherby 300]

The situation with the Minister's Sheep raffle has become a real mess if you ask me....

I was shocked to stop by the AHEIA booth at the Sportsman show only to be told the tickets were sold out...I asked when they went on sale and was told they started selling them at the Calgary show a couple of weeks earlier....not being in the AHEIA loop, I had been continuously checking their website for an announcement on the raffle but saw nothing...unfortunately, no other word of mouth made it my way either....so I was S.O.L.....

I called AHEIA to find out how I could avoid this from happening to me next year....I also wanted to express my concern that anyone north of Calgary was essentially excluded from this opportunity....I am still waiting for a response....

It seems the raffle has become a bargain version of the FNAWS tag, as large blocks of tickets are snapped up, now even before many others even have a chance to buy....

The residents raffle was set up to offset the outstanding opportunity offered to non residents by the FNAWS tag.....at least giving the rest of alberta a chance at the same quality of hunt. The way I see it....better management should be done to ensure open and equal availability to ALL albertans.....

I fully admit "you snooze, you lose" applies to me...there is likely a lot more I could have done to find out when tickets went on sale....but should I have to look that hard??? I will never win, but I sure want to know I had a chance at it....

I will be speaking with my MLA and SRD in hopes of being heard....