Interesting read on CWD

[goldscud]

Article from 2017

https://www.environews.tv/081517-ven...moving-humans/

[sk270]

As pointed out, this article dates from 2017. I see no signs that the relevant authorities in either Saskatchewan or Alberta are taking meaningful steps to deal with the issue. They seem not to be taking the potential transfer to humans very seriously. Another post on AO a while ago noted that the incidence of CJD is increasing and these cases needed to be monitored for CWD prions.

The potential for a public health disaster is real as shown by Britain's experiences with BSE. At the very least we should ensure that hunters wait for a negative CWD test before consuming venison.

Butchers should process wild ungulates individually and separately from domestic livestock. I asked our local butcher if special clean up is done after processing deer and the answer was no. He seemed not to be aware of how difficult it is to destroy prions. I'd really like someone on here to correct me and say that most butchers do enough to prevent prion transmission.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sk270

I'd really like someone on here to correct me and say that most butchers do enough to prevent prion transmission.

Unfortunately I think it would be the exact opposite. I wouldn't take my beef in to be processed in a shop that does wild game.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Wow! and we have Alberta guberment considering penned game hunts.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by mr.orange

The government does offer free testing for CWD, which I've been taking advantage for a couple years now as CWD has gotten closer to where I live and hunt. What else would you suggest that would constitute meaningful steps...not trolling here

The following is just off the top of my head. I wouldn't mind comments.

I think that both Saskatchewan and Alberta should have mandatory CWD testing for every deer harvested and strongly suggest it for elk. They should put enough resources into the testing so that it takes much less time, preferably one week or so. They should give clear instructions as part of the regulations package on how to submit heads or glands and how to process the carcass in the field and later so as to reduce possible transmission of prions.

Regulations should be created for commercial butchers so that wild meat is not processed with the same equipment as domestic animals. Protocols should be created to destroy prions on any equipment used for wild cervids. There should be no mixing of meat from different animals.

Game farms should not be legal and current farms should be bought out and closed. I think there is good evidence that CWD came into Saskatchewan with imported live cervids and spread from those farms.

I don't know if measures such as depopulation of cervids in areas of heavy infection would do any good.

These are just my quick thoughts. What concerns me is that the British authorities said for years that BSE was not a threat to humans. Then suddenly it was.

[JReed]

Good video on Randy Newberg’s page that was posted today. Raises some good points:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Ba-BwKZYk

[sk270]

Originally Posted by mr.orange

Don't quite follow your point about processing the carcass in the field to reduce transmission - do you mean like coyotes?

I think we have no hope of controlling the spread of CWD prions through animals that have died in the wild, scavengers, uptake by plants and so on. I was thinking that we need clear instructions on field dressing methods to reduce the exposure of the hunter to CWD prions and transfer via tools, clothing and so on. That would include precautions for those who grind, cut, wrap at home while waiting for test results.

[marky_mark]

Article is from 2017
If there was any merit to it
We definitely would have heard more about it by now

I’m leery of online scientific information

[sk270]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Article is from 2017
If there was any merit to it
We definitely would have heard more about it by now

I’m leery of online scientific information

Which parts of the article would you like to refute? References please.

"We" have heard this information from many sources. If you don't like your information online where else do you get it? If print, I'd like those citations as well, please.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by sk270

Which parts of the article would you like to refute? References please.

"We" have heard this information from many sources. If you don't like your information online where else do you get it? If print, I'd like those citations as well, please.

Your getting bent out of shape because of 4 year old news?

If it was ground breaking we would have heard more on the subject since this article was written. Especially since the research was done here

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Your getting bent out of shape because of 4 year old news?

If it was ground breaking we would have heard more on the subject since this article was written. Especially since the research was done here

Are you sure? IMO this is alot like the BSE issue - gov'ts will keep their head in the sand and bury the information for as long as they can because they don't want to deal with it. Especially here in Alberta where there is direct culpability as in they were fully aware of the issue and went ahead with the game farming in the face of all opposition and evidence.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Your getting bent out of shape because of 4 year old news?

If it was ground breaking we would have heard more on the subject since this article was written. Especially since the research was done here

I've been concerned since I first saw the information about oral transfer and crossing a big species barrier. The provincial governments don't seem to be doing anything.

BTW you didn't say where you get your information just that you reject online sources. If it's not gossip it must be print and I'd like to know what you're reading because you don't like what I'm getting on the
internet.

[marky_mark]

Cwd is found in 26 states and 3 provinces
And been studied for 40 years

Feel free to do what ever you feel you need to do, to feel safe.
In 2019 they figured out that 5 min in 40% bleach kills the prions.

One day they have a cure
The next they don’t

If you cut your own meat you have a lot less to worry about

[sk270]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Cwd is found in 26 states and 3 provinces
And been studied for 40 years

Feel free to do what ever you feel you need to do, to feel safe.
In 2019 they figured out that 5 min in 40% bleach kills the prions.

One day they have a cure
The next they don’t

If you cut your own meat you have a lot less to worry about

I didn't think they ever said they had a cure for any prion disease. Please tell me more.

If you don't get information online, what sources do you use?

I have read about the bleach treatment. Do you treat everything that has come in contact with any part of your deer with bleach? I don't think commercial butchers do so.

For example, is there any threat from blood or tissue that ends up on the grass where the kids or dogs play? Things like that are not explained very well.

[jeprli]

Just take a look at the cutting table your butcher uses, if its nice and white you can be sure its scrubed clean multiple times a day.

[marky_mark]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/wjactv.c...ssion-responds

[marky_mark]

They had a big press conference saying that they should have a cure within a year
Covid probably pushed that back a little

[sk270]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

They had a big press conference saying that they should have a cure within a year
Covid probably pushed that back a little

I think the fellow from LSU is an outlier among CWD researchers. Why would Covid-19 have slowed his research, if it were valid?

[sk270]

Originally Posted by jeprli

Just take a look at the cutting table your butcher uses, if its nice and white you can be sure its scrubed clean multiple times a day.

But that doesn't get rid of prions. That needs the 40% bleach solution. And that's my point. Commercial butchers are not trying to deal with CWD prions.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by sk270

But that doesn't get rid of prions. That needs the 40% bleach solution. And that's my point. Commercial butchers are not trying to deal with CWD prions.

Unless you a commercial butcher
I wouldn’t say either way, what is happening behind the scenes from

When I did fish commercially, we bleached everything every night
And that was just fish

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

When I did fish commercially, we bleached everything every night
And that was just fish

You mean you washed and dried it every night with a cup of bleach to a gallon of water.

That is a far cry from a 5 minute soak with a gallon of bleach in a gallon of water.

What everyone does with bleach right now is a nothing when it comes to the prions.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

They had a big press conference saying that they should have a cure within a year
Covid probably pushed that back a little

Well, I am not going to hold my breath, but it will be a great relief if they are successful - and not just for the deer. A breakthrough on CWD could very well lead to a breakthrough on CJD in people.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

You mean you washed and dried it every night with a cup of bleach to a gallon of water.

That is a far cry from a 5 minute soak with a gallon of bleach in a gallon of water.

What everyone does with bleach right now is a nothing when it comes to the prions.

How many prions are in the muscular tissue of animals?

[goldscud]

The Calgary Prion Research Unit (CPRU) at the University of Calgary supports scientists affiliated with the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Cumming School of Medicine and the Hotchkiss Brain Institute in their research on prion and prion-like diseases. Overarching goals are to study protein misfolding diseases in various systems (in vitro, cell culture, and animal models) to develop novel means to detect, prevent or treat human and animal neurodegenerative diseases.

CPRU is operated by the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine with Dr. Schaetzl as the director, with core funding from the Alberta Prion Research Institute. It benefits from the interdisciplinary environment and diverse expertise covering prion vaccines and prion cell biology (Dr. Schaetzl), chronic wasting disease and prion-host cell interaction (Dr. Gilch), advanced amyloid imaging and analysis (Dr. Stys), transgenic mouse models (Dr. Jirik/CCCMG), non-traditional prion-like diseases (Dr. Tsutsui), and chaperone biology (Dr. Braun).

There is another research group working on prions at the U of A.

The one fellow in the States suggesting CWD is caused by a bacterium has little support for his theories in the scientific community

The seminar I attended from one of the researchers at the U of C said there are definitely prions in the muscle tissue. Prions are not just isolated to the brain stem and lymph nodes.
There are a number of species that are able to be infected by CWD.

Sterilization
Infectious particles possessing nucleic acid are dependent upon it to direct their continued replication. Prions, however, are infectious by their effect on normal versions of the protein. Sterilizing prions, therefore, requires the denaturation of the protein to a state in which the molecule is no longer able to induce the abnormal folding of normal proteins. In general, prions are quite resistant to proteases, heat, ionizing radiation, and formaldehyde treatments,[82] although their infectivity can be reduced by such treatments. Effective prion decontamination relies upon protein hydrolysis or reduction or destruction of protein tertiary structure. Examples include sodium hypochlorite, sodium hydroxide, and strongly acidic detergents such as LpH.[83] 134 °C (273 °F) for 18 minutes in a pressurized steam autoclave has been found to be somewhat effective in deactivating the agent of disease.[84][85] Ozone sterilization is currently being studied as a potential method for prion denaturation and deactivation.[86] Renaturation of a completely denatured prion to infectious status has not yet been achieved; however, partially denatured prions can be renatured to an infective status under certain artificial conditions.[87]

The World Health Organization recommends any of the following three procedures for the sterilization of all heat-resistant surgical instruments to ensure that they are not contaminated with prions:

1.Immerse in 1N sodium hydroxide and place in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121 °C for 30 minutes; clean; rinse in water; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
2. Immerse in 1N sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; transfer instruments to water; heat in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121 °C for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
3. Immerse in 1N sodium hydroxide or sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; remove and rinse in water, then transfer to an open pan and heat in a gravity-displacement (121 °C) or in a porous-load (134 °C) autoclave for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes.[88]

So it looks like 20,000 ppm bleach and an autoclave are suggested

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How many prions are in the muscular tissue of animals?

Less than there are in the spinal tissue.

How many do you need to cause infection?

[sk270]

Originally Posted by goldscud

The World Health Organization recommends any of the following three procedures for the sterilization of all heat-resistant surgical instruments to ensure that they are not contaminated with prions:
1.Immerse in 1N sodium hydroxide and place in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121 °C for 30 minutes; clean; rinse in water; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
2. Immerse in 1N sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; transfer instruments to water; heat in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121 °C for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
3. Immerse in 1N sodium hydroxide or sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; remove and rinse in water, then transfer to an open pan and heat in a gravity-displacement (121 °C) or in a porous-load (134 °C) autoclave for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes.[88]

So it looks like 20,000 ppm bleach and an autoclave are suggested

The WHO does not seem to consider the 40% bleach solution for 5 minutes mentioned above. (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0223659).

I wonder why the WHO requirements are more rigorous. Different prions, perhaps. Goldscud, you sound like you are connected to researchers in Alberta. Can you ask them why?

As long as it doesn't damage your favourite hunting knife, this seems to be within the reach of the average person. I have damaged a wood handle on a folder and kitchen cutlery using a much less concentrated bleach solution so I'd be careful about what I used this method on.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sk270

As long as it doesn't damage your favourite hunting knife, this seems to be within the reach of the average person. I have damaged a wood handle on a folder and kitchen cutlery using a much less concentrated bleach solution so I'd be careful about what I used this method on.

Unless you have a solid stainless steel knife (including the handle and every single part of it) it will probably be damaged by this sterilization process.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Less than there are in the spinal tissue.

How many do you need to cause infection?

Good question

Since no human has ever been infected I’d say more than you could probably eat

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Good question

Since no human has ever been infected I’d say more than you could probably eat

They have infected other primates by feeding them infected meat so there certainly are enough prions in the meat to cause infection in susceptible species.

If it jumps the gap to people like BSE did then the meat will be a source of infection to humans.

As far as the "fact" that no human has been infected - cases of CJD are on the rise - are they testing post-mortem? I know in the case of my uncle who died of CJD with no apparent identifiable cause there was no post-mortem examination. It is easy to say something doesn't exist if you don't ever look for it.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

They have infected other primates by feeding them infected meat so there certainly are enough prions in the meat to cause infection in susceptible species.

If it jumps the gap to people like BSE did then the meat will be a source of infection to humans.

As far as the "fact" that no human has been infected - cases of CJD are on the rise - are they testing post-mortem? I know in the case of my uncle who died of CJD with no apparent identifiable cause there was no post-mortem examination. It is easy to say something doesn't exist if you don't ever look for it.

And they are sure he had cjd?
Or something that appeared like it?