Thinking of doing 30-30 for elk hunt

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I do not understand the fascination with using either the poorest option or among the poorest option to hunt whatever. If a 30-30 is all you have, then yes use it within its limitations. If you have better options at hand, use that. Why in heck would you limit yourself to an open sited 30-30, when you have far better tools right in hand already. Your increased challenge of the hunt is not in any way a plus for the animal you are hunting and very often results in an animal suffering unnecessarily. If the animal could kill you, I bet most would make other choices; never seen or heard of anyone trying to shoot Cape Buffalo with a 30-30, even though it would get the job done under perfect conditions.

90% of my bull elk hunting is done at ranges where a bow would be fine. More often than not scopes and long barrels mess up shots. Sometimes even the " poorest" option is actually the best option. Personally I use a 45-70 but my 30-30 has been used on moose in years past with great results. Perhaps Bessie is planning to call in the thick stuff where a scoped rifle is actually not an asset? Often the best tool for one job may be less than adequate for another....a 30-30 is one of the bcc est tools at a specific job.....not sure if it's the job Bessie is wanting to use it for but that's his call.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

90% of my bull elk hunting is done at ranges where a bow would be fine. More often than not scopes and long barrels mess up shots. Sometimes even the " poorest" option is actually the best option. Personally I use a 45-70 but my 30-30 has been used on moose in years past with great results. Perhaps Bessie is planning to call in the thick stuff where a scoped rifle is actually not an asset? Often the best tool for one job may be less than adequate for another....a 30-30 is one of the bcc est tools at a specific job.....not sure if it's the job Bessie is wanting to use it for but that's his call.

You make a very good point that the best choice for one is not always the best for another

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

You make a very good point that the best choice for one is not always the best for another

It's all about perspective. I think a 30-06 with 3-9 scope is the best hunting tool because of how I use it, and because of my hunting experience I deem that it's the best tool period. Meanwhile the next guy hunts tree stands over small food plots and figures a 14" barrel single shot with open sights us the cats meow and to his hunting experience a scoped 30-06 is way overkill.
Box end wrenches are great tools and far more usable than a crow foot wrench. But for some jobs the crow foot is just the right call...even though it's a slower, harder to use, more awkward rendition of of its cousin the box end....
Pick the right tool for the job at hand and work within it's intended use.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

90% of my bull elk hunting is done at ranges where a bow would be fine. More often than not scopes and long barrels mess up shots. Sometimes even the " poorest" option is actually the best option. Personally I use a 45-70 but my 30-30 has been used on moose in years past with great results. Perhaps Bessie is planning to call in the thick stuff where a scoped rifle is actually not an asset? Often the best tool for one job may be less than adequate for another....a 30-30 is one of the bcc est tools at a specific job.....not sure if it's the job Bessie is wanting to use it for but that's his call.

There are a select few people where what you say is true, for 98% of the hunters out there this isn't accurate. I have hunted with open sites 38-55s, 45-70s, slug guns etc as well as, short and long barrels. If you can't get the shot off in time with a 22" barrel 30-06 you aren't going to with a 20" 30-30 either, and there is no place that open sights are easier to use than a 1.5x5 power scope. In fact any time you have dark bush or light compromised shots or the need to thread a shot between bushes a scope is a far better option than open sights. Bessie has been around a long time but the fact he is asking the question as to whether that is a good choice or not would incline me to the opinion that on open sighted 30-30 may not be the best choice for him, except in VERY exacting circumstances.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Dean2

There are a select few people where what you say is true, for 98% of the hunters out there this isn't accurate. I have hunted with open sites 38-55s, 45-70s, slug guns etc as well as, short and long barrels. If you can't get the shot off in time with a 22" barrel 30-06 you aren't going to with a 20" 30-30 either, and there is no place that open sights are easier to use than a 1.5x5 power scope. In fact any time you have dark bush or light compromised shots or the need to thread a shot between bushes a scope is a far better option than open sights. Bessie has been around a long time but the fact he is asking the question as to whether that is a good choice or not would incline me to the opinion that on open sighted 30-30 may not be the best choice for him, except in VERY exacting circumstances.

For me it's about length of gun, quick follow ups, and in later season wet nasty snow falling on you from everywhere makes scopes a pain. A scope often puts the balance off ( especially a lever)
I have a lot of respect for your experience and knowledge, and your right for many applications but not all. If a guy chooses to hunt a specific way and use the best tool for that job good on him. If it's a mixed bag type of hunt where he's walking cutlines and just " hoping" to see an Elk a 30-30 is not likely the best tool. If he's targeting them as a bow hunter does than a short barreled lever can't be beat. My vote would'll d be 45-70 or 444 but....30-30 would work as well

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

For me it's about length of gun, quick follow ups, and in later season wet nasty snow falling on you from everywhere makes scopes a pain. A scope often puts the balance off ( especially a lever)
I have a lot of respect for your experience and knowledge, and your right for many applications but not all. If a guy chooses to hunt a specific way and use the best tool for that job good on him. If it's a mixed bag type of hunt where he's walking cutlines and just " hoping" to see an Elk a 30-30 is not likely the best tool. If he's targeting them as a bow hunter does than a short barreled lever can't be beat. My vote would'll d be 45-70 or 444 but....30-30 would work as well

Much of what you said in this post I agree with. The parameters are specific and limited enough to be a situation where the tool fits the job at hand.

[bessiedog]

Whelp
My plan is to get wayyy up into the thick nasties..... short short shots.

Figured open sights might be the way to go.

Mebe my 303.........

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Whelp
My plan is to get wayyy up into the thick nasties..... short short shots.

Figured open sights might be the way to go.

Mebe my 303.........

If you want to know for sure go into some heavy bush, set up some 4x4 med brown piece of wood tacked to trees. Take a gun with open sights and one with a 1.5x5 scope a try to locate and shoot those squares at 30 to 80 yards. All shots offhand and no more than 3 seconds to acquire and fire. Then try it again 10 minutes after sunset and again 25 past. Let us know whether u think open sights are an advantage.

[DiabeticKripple]

make sure its a premium bullet and not a cup and core.......

[jungleboy]

You know your capabilities. If you feel that the 3030 is going to work for the type of hunt you want to do then go for it.
If it will work for the guy that has no other option why can’t it work for you?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Whelp
My plan is to get wayyy up into the thick nasties..... short short shots.

Figured open sights might be the way to go.

Mebe my 303.........

maybe you should just let your young lad do the shootin for ya and you just pack it out....his eyes are much younger along with everything else....

[bessiedog]

Hey !

I can shoot critters...!

Jus not this year...

[Smoky buck]

I say just go hunting with whatever you want because you probably won’t shoot anything anyway

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I do not understand the fascination with using either the poorest option or among the poorest option to hunt whatever. If a 30-30 is all you have, then yes use it within its limitations. If you have better options at hand, use that. Why in heck would you limit yourself to an open sited 30-30, when you have far better tools right in hand already. Your increased challenge of the hunt is not in any way a plus for the animal you are hunting and very often results in an animal suffering unnecessarily. If the animal could kill you, I bet most would make other choices; never seen or heard of anyone trying to shoot Cape Buffalo with a 30-30, even though it would get the job done under perfect conditions.

I've always found elk difficult enough to hunt, without using a gimmick to make it more so. I like them in the open, where I can make a selection and get a decent shot. Getting down in the boon docks with them is not likely to have a good ending.

Grizz

[bezzola]

30/30 170 gr at 30 yards and that elk was in the freezer. He went about 10 yards and was done. If a bow can do it a 30/30 can

[landowner]

Former world record, blind canyon ram was killed with a 30/30 . Go for it .

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by bezzola

30/30 170 gr at 30 yards and that elk was in the freezer. He went about 10 yards and was done. If a bow can do it a 30/30 can

You’ve clearly never bow hunted. Go take down a hippo, rhino, elephant, cape buff and some asiatic water buffalo with your 30-30. Bows/arrows do it with an exit wound so it shouldn’t be a problem.

[OL_JR]

No reason not to if you feel confident enough to make the shot. A 30-30 will absolutely kill an elk, well past 100 yards for that matter but once you bring open sights into the equation that kinda changes things no matter the caliber. You don't get that same feedback with open sights you do with a magnified scope. Without a darn good rest I'd just as well have a bow in my hands. Cheaper practice .

[nelsonob1]

30-30 definitely not my choice. if it was what i was carrying id take the shot but it would have to be close.

I don't think the comparisons with a bow kill are helpful. an arrow with a broadhead does a different think and elk in my experience react differently to a shot with a gun - that is they run, and keep running if they are only wounded. I shot an elk three times with an arrow and didnt move more than 30 yards in those three shots.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

make sure its a premium bullet and not a cup and core.......

Only premium bullets work on the thick skinned steel boned North American elk

[vcmm]

30/30 has been killing big game for well over a 100 years.

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I do not understand the fascination with using either the poorest option or among the poorest option to hunt whatever. If a 30-30 is all you have, then yes use it within its limitations. If you have better options at hand, use that. Why in heck would you limit yourself to an open sited 30-30, when you have far better tools right in hand already. Your increased challenge of the hunt is not in any way a plus for the animal you are hunting and very often results in an animal suffering unnecessarily. If the animal could kill you, I bet most would make other choices; never seen or heard of anyone trying to shoot Cape Buffalo with a 30-30, even though it would get the job done under perfect conditions.

I am in agreement with Dean. I guess my question is why would you compromise yourself and the animal only to create a greater challenge for yourself? A year or two ago throwing spears at game was regarded by some as the ultimate challenge.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

I am in agreement with Dean. I guess my question is why would you compromise yourself and the animal only to create a greater challenge for yourself? A year or two ago throwing spears at game was regarded by some as the ultimate challenge.

Probably for the same reason people want to bowhunt, or use an atlatl, or a cartridge in 6.5 as opposed to a cartridge .338 .
Many people love the .270 win. for elk, the late great Elmer Keith considered it a "pretty good coyote cartridge" to paraphrase him.
Cat

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

I am in agreement with Dean. I guess my question is why would you compromise yourself and the animal only to create a greater challenge for yourself? A year or two ago throwing spears at game was regarded by some as the ultimate challenge.

I don't see it as a compromise or even on the edge for a certain type of hunting. If you choose to call or track Elk and either bring them in your lap or shoot them in their bed a 30-30, 44mag, 444, 45-70 are all more than sufficient. It's a different type of hunting than many are used to perhaps but it's in no way a handicap. The vast majority of Elk ( both bulls and cows) I've killed have happened between the hours of 9am and 4 pm. At ranges less than 100 yds.
But I don't generally post up.on a cut line and wait for them to cross at last light.....
It's a hunting style you need to commit to but it's not a handicap in any way. In fact living on the border of 357-358 right in the center of the saddle hills gong show my success rate and opportunity has exploded since hunting in the thick timber and forgetting about sitting on cutlines or on fields..... I look at it as hunting aggressively vs passively.
If your aggressive a short carbine with open sights is actually an advantage. For a more passive hunting style range and optics are a huge asset. Both methods can be extremely effective at putting game on the ground depending the area/ hunting pressure.
IME aggressive tactics for Elk result in more encounters and higher harvest odds. And in that scenario a 30-30 w open sights is an advantage. Providing you can shoot open sights competently. If not a small reflex/ red dot are fantastic or even a low powered scope. The round itself though (30-30) is more than adequate while using a properly constructed bullet for the task

[Big Grey Wolf]

When you track and catch a herd of elk in their beds at close range 30-30 with open sights is probably a good combination for success, things happen fast and you do not have time to focus a scope.

[Pioneer2]

38-55 with heavy cast slugs or handloaded 255gr jacketed.

[marky_mark]

I would agree with what dean says and put a low mag scope on whatever your using

[Dick284]

You do not need a controlled expansion bullet in a 30/30!
A Core Loct 170, or a Silver Tip 170, or even a Speer 170 are all you’ll ever need in a 30/30.

The 30/30 is equal to the task, but irons in tight cover will leave you losing the wee hours of the hunt, which will frustrate you.

The reduced ability to take a bit farther than a 175 yd poke will drive you to distractions.


As admirable and even doable as the task my seem, there’s more cons than pros in this situation IMO.

[Pioneer2]

Make a 170gr Partition for the 30-30 then? For antelope I guess ,not bigger tougher game . Use whatever is on sale.

[elkhunter11]

For your best chance at success, take your son along, with the rifle of his choice, and let him do the shooting.