Puppy food

[MK2750]

97 OF THE TOP 100* AKC ALL BREED CHAMPIONS ARE FED PURINA® PRO PLAN®

11 OF THE LAST 12 WESTMINSTER BEST IN SHOW CHAMPIONS WERE FUELED BY PURINA® PRO PLAN®

Maybe among the "also ran" Champion ranks right up there.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

They are a feel good brand. Read the ingredients. They are clever. They list things like "sun cured alfalfa." That sounds better than "alfalfa".

In Alberta, roughly what percentage of our alfalfa crop is sun dried versus non-sun dried?

Actually drying agents and desiccants can be and are applied in some areas during the cutting process in commercial operations. What percentage that is in Alberta, I have no idea.

I guess the point I'm making is that if you can't get past or over the marketing 101 fluff that everyone uses, you'll never understand the science. Don't make your decisions on what a marketing graduate student adds as window dressing.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by YYC338

After you've read through the attached link regarding Acana's (Champion) research facility we can talk about other aspects you've shot from the hip on without exhibiting any knowledge or proof of.

https://acana.com/about-acana/never-...od-innovation/

Well, when I was talking about research facilities, I was thinking of places that did actual scientific research for publication in scientific journals that contributed something significant to the knowledge base. Not a kitchen that tests out how to best advance a presupposed conclusion.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Well, when I was talking about research facilities, I was thinking of places that did actual scientific research for publication in scientific journals that contributed something significant to the knowledge base. Not a kitchen that tests out how to best advance a presupposed conclusion.

You mean independent scientific research that wasn't funded or lobbied by the pet food company right?

Care to provide a link to back up your claims? Any documentation that demonstrates a difference between research facilities or is it like everything else you've said so far? In other words backed up with nada.

Criticize but provide absolutely zero to back up your claims, really nothing but a waste of time here.

My apologies to the OP. I realize you asked for suggestions and the thread has been derailed by people who have nothing better to do than criticize some of the suggestions in order to bolster the justification of their own yet provide nothing to support their claims.

As I suggested previously, do a great deal of research, consult professionals and make an informed decision. Expecting intelligent discourse and informed information from places like this forum and the people who choose to make claims, statements and provide critique without providing any supporting proof or documentation is probably not going to further your quest.

[Versatile]

Dog food threads always bring out the best in people......

Look at the results, support a company that supports you, and enjoy your dog. Your dog can live a long happy life on the $30/bag pedigree from walmart, or the latest grain free $120/bag from your local specialty store.

Really what it comes down to is how does the dog do on the food and can you afford to buy the product.

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by MK2750

97 OF THE TOP 100* AKC ALL BREED CHAMPIONS ARE FED PURINA® PRO PLAN®

11 OF THE LAST 12 WESTMINSTER BEST IN SHOW CHAMPIONS WERE FUELED BY PURINA® PRO PLAN®

Maybe among the "also ran" Champion ranks right up there.

Disclaimer on Purina's sites.

"*The handlers or owners of these champions may have received Pro Plan® dog food as Purina ambassadors. "


Stats are all quoted by Purina. Lots of sponsorship dollars which is good. Hand everyone a free bag or two and then it's not false advertising I suppose. Decent, middle of the pack kibble. Buck stops there.

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by Okotok

Disclaimer on Purina's sites.

"*The handlers or owners of these champions may have received Pro Plan® dog food as Purina ambassadors. "


Stats are all quoted by Purina. Lots of sponsorship dollars which is good. Hand everyone a free bag or two and then it's not false advertising I suppose. Decent, middle of the pack kibble. Buck stops there.

Im not sure what the purse is for west minster (which is probably to top dog event in North America) but I know The National where the continents top pointing dogs compete every February is about $25k. If it gave a competitive edge to feed steak and lobster to a dog every day the pros would do it. Yes Purina give away alot of free food and sponsors alot of events but of the dogs dont perform at the very best on it the food wouldnt be fed.

[Rackmastr]

I've been feeding Performatrin Large Breed Puppy with good results. I did a lot of research and label reading and found it to be a good mix of what I was looking for with calories, protein, ingredient list and price point. I don't have as many options locally but so far its been working out great and puppy is doing excellent on it.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by YYC338

You mean independent scientific research that wasn't funded or lobbied by the pet food company right?

Every research project is funded by someone. What matters really is what is done with the research - is it put out there for peer review and published to further the knowledge base?

Originally Posted by YYC338

Care to provide a link to back up your claims? Any documentation that demonstrates a difference between research facilities or is it like everything else you've said so far? In other words backed up with nada.

Here is a quote from Purina's website. Note the part in bold if you want to skim. Iams research has pretty much disappeared from the general public thanks to PETA but they have put out similar results as well.
"ADVANCING NUTRITION

Purina has been a pioneer in the science of pet health through research that not only resulted in more than 500 peer-reviewed publications and 7,000 granted and pending patents, but also resulted in breakthroughs that have redefined and shaped the understanding of pet nutrition."

Originally Posted by YYC338

Criticize but provide absolutely zero to back up your claims, really nothing but a waste of time here.

You were the one making a "claim" . Remember this

Both Acana and Orijen are "whole prey" type kibble that don't use any grain products for the most part. Better for your dog and usually less allergenic.

Still waiting for reference to any scientific literature to back up the claim.

Originally Posted by YYC338

My apologies to the OP. I realize you asked for suggestions and the thread has been derailed by people who have nothing better to do than criticize some of the suggestions in order to bolster the justification of their own yet provide nothing to support their claims.

Well, until you made your unsupported claim there were simply reports of what was being fed. I am not promoting any particular food - just looking for honesty in advertising.

Originally Posted by YYC338

As I suggested previously, do a great deal of research, consult professionals and make an informed decision. Expecting intelligent discourse and informed information from places like this forum and the people who choose to make claims, statements and provide critique without providing any supporting proof or documentation is probably not going to further your quest.

As I said, still waiting for something regarding your statement. In the end, versatile has it summed up:

Originally Posted by versatile

Your dog can live a long happy life on the $30/bag pedigree from walmart, or the latest grain free $120/bag from your local specialty store.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Every research project is funded by someone. What matters really is what is done with the research - is it put out there for peer review and published to further the knowledge base?
Here is a quote from Purina's website. Note the part in bold if you want to skim. Iams research has pretty much disappeared from the general public thanks to PETA but they have put out similar results as well.
"ADVANCING NUTRITION

Purina has been a pioneer in the science of pet health through research that not only resulted in more than 500 peer-reviewed publications and 7,000 granted and pending patents, but also resulted in breakthroughs that have redefined and shaped the understanding of pet nutrition."

You were the one making a "claim" . Remember this Still waiting for reference to any scientific literature to back up the claim.

Well, until you made your unsupported claim there were simply reports of what was being fed. I am not promoting any particular food - just looking for honesty in advertising.

As I said, still waiting for something regarding your statement. In the end, versatile has it summed up:

You seem to have lost your way here and missed the point of the raw fed whole prey diet I was talking about.

In support of that diet I provided you a link that referenced 13 technical papers and articles discussing raw fed whole prey diets and their benefits for various animals including dogs.

In response to that what did I see from you? Nothing just crickets.

You moan about a "feel good" dog food choice and then provide a link to a dog food that includes more trendy ingredients than a holistic, hipster, granola munching Greenpeace disciple could come up with.

Now all you've provided is a regurgitation of Purina promotional verbiage. You provide absolutely nothing of content yet make the demand that I must do so, which I have. The internet is full of documentation of food allergy's in dogs and their causes and I won't do that research for you while you sit there and criticize or ignore everything presented while presenting and providing nothing yourself.

Why don't you just stay off this thread and cease your continuous derail? Why don't you start your thread on dog food? Perhaps you could title it "My suggestion is better, yours sucks and I've got sweet FA to back that up.

[kinwahkly]

Anybody have any experience with GO dog food ?

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by YYC338

You seem to have lost your way here and missed the point of the raw fed whole prey diet I was talking about.

In support of that diet I provided you a link that referenced 13 technical papers and articles discussing raw fed whole prey diets and their benefits for various animals including dogs.

In response to that what did I see from you? Nothing just crickets.

You moan about a "feel good" dog food choice and then provide a link to a dog food that includes more trendy ingredients than a holistic, hipster, granola munching Greenpeace disciple could come up with.

Now all you've provided is a regurgitation of Purina promotional verbiage. You provide absolutely nothing of content yet make the demand that I must do so, which I have. The internet is full of documentation of food allergy's in dogs and their causes and I won't do that research for you while you sit there and criticize or ignore everything presented while presenting and providing nothing yourself.

Why don't you just stay off this thread and cease your continuous derail? Why don't you start your thread on dog food? Perhaps you could title it "My suggestion is better, yours sucks and I've got sweet FA to back that up.

Why don't you get off this thread and end your ridiculous attack on respected members. A half dozen people that have forgotten more than most will ever know about bird dogs have posted that they feed and trust Purina Pro Plan.

When the OP started this thread, I am sure he was looking for recommendations from these experienced members not from "13 technical papers" written by some blow hards that have never seen the inside of a duck blind.

I feed Pro Plan along with some Acana/Orijen mixed in at times. It is truly nothing special but if it makes one feel better than why not? My opinion, along with several others that posted, is that the product is a "feel good" product preying on people's fears rather than concerning themselves with silly things like performance. An excellent example of this is the demonization of corn gluten, one of the best fuels for a high performance animals. Orijen IMO is too high in protein but I like mixing a handful in when the dogs are working hard. The fish blends are good for their coats.

If the OP would like some real world opinions he should go on the larger duck hunting and gun dog forums based in the USA. I read several and these folks are passionate about bird dogs. The overwhelming majority recommend Purina Pro Plan.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Why don't you get off this thread and end your ridiculous attack on respected members. A half dozen people that have forgotten more than most will ever know about bird dogs have posted that they feed and trust Purina Pro Plan.

When the OP started this thread, I am sure he was looking for recommendations from these experienced members not from "13 technical papers" written by some blow hards that have never seen the inside of a duck blind.

I feed Pro Plan along with some Acana/Orijen mixed in at times. It is truly nothing special but if it makes one feel better than why not? My opinion, along with several others that posted, is that the product is a "feel good" product preying on people's fears rather than concerning themselves with silly things like performance. An excellent example of this is the demonization of corn gluten, one of the best fuels for a high performance animals. Orijen IMO is too high in protein but I like mixing a handful in when the dogs are working hard. The fish blends are good for their coats.

If the OP would like some real world opinions he should go on the larger duck hunting and gun dog forums based in the USA. I read several and these folks are passionate about bird dogs. The overwhelming majority recommend Purina Pro Plan.

You seem to have a reading comprehension issue so I'll review what's been said. I have attacked absolutely no one regarding their recommendations until I was criticized for what I recommended. I then called that person to task for his criticism when his/her recommendation contain many ingredients of the feel good variety that were supposedly the fault of the food I had suggested.
I was asked to provide technical back up that supports a raw fed whole prey diet, which I did and now you seem to be calling me out for that. I'd say that's your problem, not mine. I feed very little processed dog food to my dog. That's my choice, if it bothers you, that's too bad and i hope you'll understand why I don't give a rats behind what you think.

A raw fed, whole prey diet can be time consuming, lacks the convenience factor, doesn't travel well, takes up a lot of freezer space and possibly expensive for the owner and that's why most shy away from it. That's perfectly fine and their choice
.
I also have said nothing against Purina Pro Plan, not sure where you're getting that angle from.

To the OP, I'm attaching one link of many that you can find out there that rates dog foods. You can search by brand or rating.Take it for what it's worth. These sites are as common as forum keyboard warriors.

https://www.dogfoodinsider.com/dog-food-reviews/

As I've said, do some research, talk to professionals, know your dogs needs based on breed, age and activity level and make your choice.

Or you can also go by the anecdotal information some provide here. The choice is yours.

[MK2750]

The OP would be well advised to avoid review sites as all are sponsored in one way or another and they simply create a website to create profits. The vast majority have no training and are simply reading ingredients and going with the politically correct trend.

In the link posted above the owner admits he has absolutely no training in food and in fact is a truck driver. The website and the owner profit when you click on the link for amazon. He claims to get help from experts but shows no proof of this.

The same can be said for vets like earlier suggested as they have very little training in nutrition especially when it comes to high performance dogs.

Instead read actual reviews from pet owners, especially those that demand top performance from their dogs. Again the above site rated Purina One poorly but suggest you click the amazon link to find out why actual pet owners rate it much higher. Purina One is not Pro Plan BTW. It is more of a pet food for big box stores not for the sporting breeds.

Having said all that, I don't trust any big company and like to mix brands to ensure no nutrients are missing. I have 4 bags on the go right now including Purina Pro Plan, Acana puppy, Orijen fish blend and the ACTR1UM Holistic from Walmart.

Good luck with your puppy.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Having said all that, I don't trust any big company and like to mix brands to ensure no nutrients are missing. I have 4 bags on the go right now including Purina Pro Plan, Acana puppy, Orijen fish blend and the ACTR1UM Holistic from Walmart.

Good luck with your puppy.

OP

Probably the best advice given by this poster in this thread.

With respect to vets not knowing enough about nutrition, keep in mind they deal daily with the heath results of poor nutrition, poor feeding habits, excessive nutrient supply etc. From allergy's, to dental issues, to GI problems they see it all.
To say they don't know enough about nutrition is a tad dismissive. Find a vet that owns dogs, hopefully a similar breed if you're really lucky and you'll have the best of both worlds. The anecdotal feedback from an owner and the science and knowledge of a professional.
Single sourcing your information quest like just from owners, well helpful, is usually just anecdotal and can be limited in it's usefulness.

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by YYC338

To the OP, I'm attaching one link of many that you can find out there that rates dog foods. You can search by brand or rating.Take it for what it's worth. These sites are as common as forum keyboard warriors.

https://www.dogfoodinsider.com/dog-food-reviews/

I would expect about as good of advice from a website about dog food run by a dentist that I would from you.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by YYC338

OP

Probably the best advice given by this poster in this thread.

Gee thanks

OP, the above statement is probably the best given by this poster in this thread.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Versatile

I would expect about as good of advice from a website about dog food run by a dentist that I would from you.

A dentist would at least know something of nutrition. The guy that runs that website describes himself as a long haul trucker with no nutritional training or experience.

From the website;

Who Am I?
Probably not who you expect! I am not a dog nutritionist or an expert on dog food.

[ward]

Originally Posted by Versatile

Dog food threads always bring out the best in people......

Look at the results, support a company that supports you, and enjoy your dog. Your dog can live a long happy life on the $30/bag pedigree from walmart, or the latest grain free $120/bag from your local specialty store.

Really what it comes down to is how does the dog do on the food and can you afford to buy the product.

Your post should end this debate. Well done.

[puphood1]

Feed what you are comfortable feeding your pup and watch the response to the food.
Some dogs do well on some brands others do not for various reasons.

Digestible Protein and Fat content are two of the most important ingredients on the label for working dogs expressed in Digestible Kcal per measured weigh (pounds or kg) of food. Then it is simple math to figure out the best bang for your $.
Pro dog trainers have many incentives by various dog food manufacturers to feed certain brands. Purina USA is very aggressive and supports many pointing dog trials in the USA but that case can`t be made for the Canadian subsidiary which manufactures the Purina product in Canada and they do little to no sponsorship in Canada. Hence your loyalty to Purina is probably well meaning but poorly placed........ Good luck with your pup......

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by MK2750

A dentist would at least know something of nutrition. The guy that runs that website describes himself as a long haul trucker with no nutritional training or experience.

From the website;

Who Am I?
Probably not who you expect! I am not a dog nutritionist or an expert on dog food.

There, I fixed it for you, I'm sure you meant to include the next statement in his write up and just messed up. I'm sure you wouldn't just extract what served your purpose.

From the website:

Probably not who you expect! I am not a dog nutritionist or an expert on dog food. But don’t worry, all of our reviews are written by dog nutrition experts

Again, comprehension of the written word ain't what it used to be otherwise you would understand this sentence from my thread: "Take it for what it's worth"

But hey when there's no straws to grasp, you've got to grasp at something.

There's really nothing but criticism being added for the most part on this thread. I'm done.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Versatile

I would expect about as good of advice from a website about dog food run by a dentist that I would from you.

And I'll consult with that same dentist, rather than you, on issues like spelling, sentence structure, grammar and proof reading. I hope you'll understand.

[Pixel Shooter]

Ok knock it off and enough of the personal attacks.

want to debate take it off line. guy asked for input , you gave it, move on. Not everyone needs to agree with you nor do you need to impose your will.

worst then kids

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by kinwahkly

Anybody have any experience with GO dog food ?

Had never heard of it. I assume there is some reason you think you should be going grain free. The concern I would have with the GO formula is the lower fat ratios in all of their feeds. Higher fat is what fuels a working dog. I checked 3 other brands of grain free feeds and they all had more fat than GO did.

I also assume this means you have a new puppy? Details?

[natureman37]

Taste of the Wild Puppy food.

[calvin]

Like a lot of folks on here I did a bunch of research and because the company is local and supporting Alberta farmers, I used the Acana brands and still do. But it’s funny that while we are on the farm I can only control what’s eaten in the house at feeding time. The dog gurus all say no grains and ours have always went straight to the grain troughs to pick up spilled grains. Calving time comes and that first crap from a calf is heaven to a dog as well as finding a month old placenta buried in the straw somewhere is pure gold. Oh yeah, make sure and roll around in it prior to coming into the house for that 2-1/3 cups of scientific proven dog food.

[Sundog57]

You might as well ask what is the best cartridge for hunting.
As they say... opinions are like ..... everybody's got one.
Kinda disappointing that any time a question like this one comes up on this board, it quickly degenerates into a personal slagging match because otherwise there is lots of good information here and some pretty good stories as well.

Dog food manufacturers are like any other business.
They have to differentiate their products to try to carve out market share.
Given that most of the product is pretty much generic they have to try to create a perception using words like "natural" and "wild" etc.etc. to entice the buyer.

Dogs are omnivores, so the "all meat", or "no grain" diets are not what they should probably be eating - note that a few years ago there was a big deal about taurine deficiency in "all meat" diets causing serious heart problems (DCM).

Similarly be very careful about puppy food with high protein - this was a thing a couple of decades ago and I lost a dog to osteochondrosis because of it. Too much protein causes larger breed puppies to grow faster than than the rate at which their bones can properly calcify. I know of some very knowledgeable people who feed senior dog food to puppies from about three to six months to slow their growth.

I have fed Purina Pro Plan to 10 Labradors so far with good results. I use it because they provide corporate support to the National Retriever Club and I know a bunch of folks with big dog trucks who feed it with good success. Other pros feed other foods also with good success.


So my suggestion is find a food that has a veterinary association stamp on it as meeting all of the nutritional requirements, that your dog tolerates well - look for firm stools, good coat etc. and that rings your chimes from a marketing perspective.
Stick with that.
Try to avoid overthinking the whole process - they are dogs, they are amazing, they are wonderful and they are an essential part of my existence, but they are still dogs.

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

I have always questioned the quality and nutrional value of any of the ingredients in commercial pet foods.

Any of my research or discussions with my Vets tend to reinforce my skepticism.

We now prepare our own dog foods with ingredients that are not processed or at least have been minimally processed, ingredients that we can recognize as being real food.

The ingredients are choosen based on sound research and in consultation with our veterinarian.

Preparing your own pet food is both time consuming and expensive at least in comparison to commerical pet food.

But for the longevity and well being of our pets I feel its a sound decision and we see the results.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Cross Eyed Cowboy

I have always questioned the quality and nutrional value of any of the ingredients in commercial pet foods.

Any of my research or discussions with my Vets tend to reinforce my skepticism.

We now prepare our own dog foods with ingredients that are not processed or at least have been minimally processed, ingredients that we can recognize as being real food.

The ingredients are choosen based on sound research and in consultation with our veterinarian.

Preparing your own pet food is both time consuming and expensive at least in comparison to commerical pet food.

But for the longevity and well being of our pets I feel its a sound decision and we see the results.

Same here. My pup eats raw. Meats, organs, greens etc. Everything is in its original form. The only thing we process are the greens, they go thru the blender to break up the fibres, that way they digest way better without any loss of nutrient.
On the other hand- the first post by a new member - and he is re-surrecting the 3 years old post?

[birdman86]

Started with Nutram, puppy didn't like it.
Then Royal Canin Labrador, puppy didn't like that either.
Now on Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach and he LOVES that stuff. So here we are.