would you guys that have dogs please list the trainers you recomend

[Diesel_wiesel]

good afternoon
I keep getting asked about who does professional dog training mainly for hunt tests but a few ask me about field trials
so I basically explain to these people
if they were into horses and send a horse to a pro trainer, what good was all that money spent on training the horse , if they cant even sit and ride in a saddle themselves, a trainer can train a horse better then the owner can ride
I usually get the duhhhh , I never thought of it like that answer
its the same thing with a dog a trainer can train a dog better then the owner can handle a dog
I've recommended a few good trainers , but there's a Cpl that elude my memory, if my memory recalls proper isn't there a trainer south east of Lethbridge some where's?
I always recommend getting a coach over and above a trainer, and do the training yourself , with a coaches help it gets them through the bumps in the training issues if they put their own effort into it , its a greater reward in the end
just so I can give proper answers for them would you people mind listing any trainers for me, the people that ask me where and who can then do their own foot work and decide from the list
thank you in advance

[sns2]

This one is easy for me to chime in on: Pixel Shooter

I have both watched him train young dogs for forum members at my recommendation, and coach handlers. Just heard from a forum member I sent to him recently. The forum member could not thank me enough. Full disclosure, I train with him regularly and he is a good friend. That just makes me more able to recommend him to others. He puts an amazing amount of effort into the very limited number of dogs he takes on.

I have had my share of pointing dogs, but am a first time Lab owner. There is a big difference. With Pixel's considerable help, I have a dog who earned his Senior Hunter title at two years old. The very next day, he earned his first Master Hunter pass. For those of you who know the requirements of Master Hunt tests, you know that it means you have a serious hunting retriever. I couldn't have done it without him. Period.

[sns2]

I would also have no hesitation in recommending a friend to send their dog to forum member WWBirds or Stu Mead who owns Club Mead Labradors.

There are others who pass themselves off as pro trainers, but this is most definitely a buyer beware area.

Trust me. I have been burned badly in the past.

[Diesel_wiesel]

Originally Posted by sns2

This one is easy for me to chime in on: Pixel Shooter

I have both watched him train young dogs for forum members at my recommendation, and coach handlers. Just heard from a forum member I sent to him recently. The forum member could not thank me enough. Full disclosure, I train with him regularly and he is a good friend. That just makes me more able to recommend him to others. He puts an amazing amount of effort into the very limited number of dogs he takes on.

I have had my share of pointing dogs, but am a first time Lab owner. There is a big difference. With Pixel's considerable help, I have a dog who earned his Senior Hunter title at two years old. The very next day, he earned his first Master Hunter pass. For those of you who know the requirements of Master Hunt tests, you know that it means you have a serious hunting retriever. I couldn't have done it without him. Period.

I recommended pixel shooter to a Cpl guys already
There is some in southern Alberta and Bc as well for those that cant travel great distances

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Diesel_wiesel

I recommended pixel shooter to a Cpl guys already
There is some in southern Alberta and Bc as well for those that cant travel great distances

WW Birds is in Langdon

Maunty Karp of Ringneck Kennels is also in Southern AB. He is highly regarded by many also.

[tri777]

What kind of accumulated hours are spent training and what is the rough
cost of a freshly finished dog that is trained decently?

[Diesel_wiesel]

Originally Posted by sns2

I would also have no hesitation in recommending a friend to send their dog to forum member WWBirds or Stu Mead who owns Club Mead Labradors.

There are others who pass themselves off as pro trainers, but this is most definitely a buyer beware area.

Trust me. I have been burned badly in the past.

and its easy to get burned by so called wanna be trainers
in both the dog world and horse world
been there done that

that's why I prefer they do their own leg work and their own research, I'll help them out getting names of trainers but after that its in their ball park

some guys I understand work great distances away from home making training impossible , others due to other commitments in life cant train on a full time basis ,
but others don't have the knowledge to even know where to begin but have the time to dedicate to training , just need some coaching ,

[Diesel_wiesel]

Originally Posted by tri777

What kind of hours are spent training and what is the rough cost of a freshly finished dog that is trained?

to generalize an answer to your question
IT depends what you mean freshly trained finished dog?? a well trained gun dog or competitive retriever doesn't just happen over night
if you have stars in your eyes and want a Field trial champion expect to spend thousands and thousands of hours training, and over 70K on a trainer, same thing if you want a national hunt status
those level of dogs its a way of life and a complete life style change and dedication , for a meat dog hunting dog it still takes thousands of hours and hundreds of dollars if you hire a trainer, expect to invest nothing less then 4 years of dedicated training and over 10k in a trainer if you don't want to train it yourself
just because the dogs last name is retriever or pointer don't expect it to come right out of the womb naturally know what to do
it takes dedication and training for each and everyone of them I have a math theory goes like this
Poor DOG + poor trainer = poor results
good dog + poor or un knowable trainer =poor results
great dog + good trainer = fair results
great dog + great trainer = great results
what is your goal
where do yo see yourself and your dog in 5 years from the time you bring your 8 week old puppy home
that's decision time right then and there they grow up fast
don't waste time humming and hawwing and procrastinating about it
make that goal set those standards before you buy a puppy and bring it home don't waver from them
the cheapest expense you will encounter when buying a retriever puppy or pointer or bird dog is the price of that puppy)
after that the expenses go up fast
ask Sns2 or Pixel Shooter if I'm wrong on that answer they might rephrase it better then I did
I hope that answers some questions past and forward

[tri777]

Originally Posted by Diesel_wiesel

to generalize an answer to your question
IT depends what you mean freshly trained finished dog?? a well trained gun dog or competitive retriever doesn't just happen over night
if you have stars in your eyes and want a Field trial champion expect to spend thousands and thousands of hours training, and over 70K on a trainer, same thing if you want a national hunt status
those level of dogs its a way of life and a complete life style change and dedication , for a meat dog hunting dog it still takes thousands of hours and hundreds of dollars if you hire a trainer, expect to invest nothing less then 4 years of dedicated training and over 10k in a trainer if you don't want to train it yourself
just because the dogs last name is retriever or pointer don't expect it to come right out of the womb naturally know what to do
it takes dedication and training for each and everyone of them I have a math theory goes like this
Poor DOG + poor trainer = poor results
good dog + poor or un knowable trainer =poor results
great dog + good trainer = fair results
great dog + great trainer = great results
what is your goal
where do yo see yourself and your dog in 5 years from the time you bring your 8 week old puppy home
that's decision time right then and there
don't waste time humming and hawwing and procrastinating about it
make that goal set those standards before you buy a puppy and bring it home don't waver from them
the cheapest expense you will encounter when buying a retriever puppy or pointer or bird dog is the price of that puppy)
after that the expenses go up fast
ask Sns2 or Pixel Shooter if I'm wrong on that answer they might rephrase it better then I did
I hope that answers some questions past and forward

Nice indepth response, thx !!
Sounds around a $20G investment for someone who knows what they are doing.
A trained Police dog probably much the same investment I would think.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by tri777

What kind of accumulated hours are spent training and what is the rough
cost of a freshly finished dog that is trained decently?

Tri, I can't even begin to tell you the accumulated hours. It is very, very high. The hard truth is that not many are really willing to make the sacrifice for a high level dog. Diesel mentioned it as a way of life. The old adage is you get out of it exactly what you put into it.

My breeder, Stu Mead, from time to time sells finished dogs. Last year he sold a fully trained litter-mate to my dog for $8500 US. If time is money, then that was a bargain. It should be noted that this dog was dropped off to him by a guy who bought it and couldn't bring him to the place he was hoping. Stu put a year of training into the dog.

Now, I do not want to scare people off either. You can buy a dog from a good breeder, pay $70 US subscription to Freddy King for his online training program, follow it like a paint by numbers picture, and turn out a dog that people would love to hunt over.

Again, you have to be willing to put in a considerable amount of time. That is the key.

But the reward of having an incredibly talented dog that works with you as a team makes it all so worthwhile!

[Diesel_wiesel]

Originally Posted by tri777

Nice indepth response, thx !!
Sounds around a $20G investment for someone who knows what they are doing.
A trained Police dog probably much the same investment I would think.

honestly if you talk to a canine officer
they will tell you a trained RCMP police dog doesn't have 1/2 the training a master hunter retriever has

[tri777]

Originally Posted by sns2

Tri, I can't even begin to tell you the accumulated hours. It is very, very high. The hard truth is that not many are really willing to make the sacrifice for a high level dog. Diesel mentioned it as a way of life. The old adage is you get out of it exactly what you put into it.

My breeder, Stu Mead, from time to time sells finished dogs. Last year he sold a fully trained litter-mate to my dog for $8500 US. If time is money, then that was a bargain. It should be noted that this dog was dropped off to him by a guy who bought it and couldn't bring him to the place he was hoping. Stu put a year of training into the dog.

Now, I do not want to scare people off either. You can buy a dog from a good breeder, pay $70 US subscription to Freddy King for his online training program, follow it like a paint by numbers picture, and turn out a dog that people would love to hunt over.

Again, you have to be willing to put in a considerable amount of time. That is the key.

But the reward of having an incredibly talented dog that works with you as a team makes it all so worthwhile!

^^ *Like*

This is a guy who seems to know a bit of something on this topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WfnQzw6mwM

[wwbirds]

Dollars and cents are easy. Most pro trainers charge by the month but fees do vary by trainer. For starting a puppy (obedience and a bit of field) I charge $850 per month. After 10 months adult dog prices kick in so $1000 per month owner supplies the food.
How good is the puppy? There are great variations in the calibre of dogs brought to us so I usually say if the owner was looking for a gold dog or a brown dog that may be all they get. A well researched field pedigree with health clearances is pretty much a slam dunk to be a great dog. If you got a dog from a friend whose friend had a male and they decided to make puppies the dogs health trainability and desire are all unknown quantities.

How good is the new owner? Had a repeat customer here last weekend who brought me his new 10 week old puppy to look at. Gave him a "head start" program of games to play with the puppy from now until May when he brings the dog for formal training. by then dog will have solid obedience, be started on advance work (easier when young to teach whistle sits and come in whistle) and will have basic commands of sit stay heel mark hold leave understood and well trained for a puppy.

We sometimes see owners that didnt teach the dog anything for the first 6 months of pups life so just played with them or did the very basics but made a lot of mistakes along the way which now have to be corrected and behavior changes are always harder.
is the owner (and trainer) willing to work with the new owner since many new owners want a trained dog but dont know how to handle the dog properly.
Well trained dogs normally do not do well unless the handler is trained to be consistent.

In a nutshell I think 3 months training for a 5 month old puppy can be a reasonable first year hunter in the fall of their first birthday. WC or working certificates about the same. field trials are a hard game so although you could compete in puppy the first year many things that wont be needed until the 2nd year should also be started in the puppy stage to ensure they have full understanding by then.
Always better to train the right way than have to fix mistakes along the way.

Teach the dog, train the dog and do not test until you are quite sure the dog will be successful. Know the difference. Backtrack to kindergarten if not ready for gradeschool. Many mistakes are made by pushing dog or handler to areas they are not ready for yet.
Have fun, take your time the hours you invest will pay dividends for 10 or more years both in the home and the field.

Diesel I have worked with the Federal dog training college in Riguad Quebec as well as law enforcement agencies over much of North America for police dogs, search and rescue, gas leak dogs, cadaver dogs and drug dogs for the main USA trainer Rudy Drexler who is a good friend and I can assure you the police dogs have at least 1 year of specialized training in their area of expertise. Often the police handlers have been trained to handle and maintain but did not do the actual training. Rudy in the USA or the professional trainers at Rigaud did.

[Diesel_wiesel]

wwbirds
yes I've heard the same from some canine police officers as well
others claim a master status retriever has more training i think its who we talk to and their experience of how they answer the questions
question for you while we are on these topics , if I were to buy some live pheasants from you
is it legal for me to bring them to Saskatchewan for training purposes???
or I better research that with the Sask/AB governments first to make sure

[wwbirds]

I am winding down on pheasants as sales have been slow for past 3 years. raising more chukars now as no licence required and year round season in alberta for training.
I have sold pheasants in past to residents of Manitoba Saskatchewan and BC but dont know the details of the laws in those province for transport raising releasing or training best to check with your provincial authority.
I consider a master hunter considerably lower than an open all age Field trial dog probably around the same skill level as a good qualified 3 year old field trial dog. Never seen a master hunter dog handled or do multiple retired guns over land and water at 400 yards so open all age dogs go well beyond the requirements of a normal even great hunting dog. Guess everything is a matter of perspective.

[elkhunter11]

I have zero interest in trials or testing with a dog, my interest is solely in hunting with that dog, so I have a different view of things. I didn’t get a hunting dog until I retired, so I would have plenty of time to spend with my dog. I have seen professionally trained dogs, that were not great hunters, because the handler spent zero time training, and had no idea of how to handle the dog, and the dog pretty much did as it pleased, after the trainer was done with it.
I had no idea how to properly train a dog myself, so I joined the local NAVHDA chapter, and got help from people that are very experienced at training hunting dogs. And I have my dog in the field every day, where he is exposed to Hungarian partridges pretty much every week, sometimes several times per week. And I did start out with a dog from a breeder that I chose after a great deal of research, and talking to several owners of his pups. I did run into an issue with retrieving after my dog was spurred by a pheasant , and I spent half a day with a professional trainer who helped me to get past that issue , by working at forced fetch myself.
I would not send a dog out to a trainer, unless I had no time to train the dog myself, and even then, I would want to get some training myself, so I could keep up with the work the trainer did. And then again, if I didn't have the time to train a hunting dog, I probably wouldn't have a hunting dog in the first place.
As for competing at trials, even if I was interested, I wouldn't want to be an owner that has someone else do all of the training and handling, any more than I would want to own a race horse that someone else trains and rides. I just don't see any sense of accomplishment, in having someone else do all the work. If I was interested in competing, or if a title was important to me, I would want to be a part of the training.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

I am winding down on pheasants as sales have been slow for past 3 years. raising more chukars now as no licence required and year round season in alberta for training.
I have sold pheasants in past to residents of Manitoba Saskatchewan and BC but dont know the details of the laws in those province for transport raising releasing or training best to check with your provincial authority.
I consider a master hunter considerably lower than an open all age Field trial dog probably around the same skill level as a good qualified 3 year old field trial dog. Never seen a master hunter dog handled or do multiple retired guns over land and water at 400 yards so open all age dogs go well beyond the requirements of a normal even great hunting dog. Guess everything is a matter of perspective.

When I train with my field trial friends, and run these type of setups, I often wonder in what way this resembles hunting. That does not take away from the incredible nature of an all age open dog. I just kind of see it like shooting targets at a mile away. Incredible for those who choose to do it, but it isn't hunting.

It's all fun. Retrievers are amazing dogs.

[wwbirds]

FT probably emulated hunting 60 or 70 years ago but as dogs and handlers got better they kept increasing the level of difficulty. there are some great hunting dogs involved in FT but the game is a competition not a hunt test. HT are a pass or fail to a prescribed standard whereas anyone new trying to get into FT right away in OAA is competing for very scarce ribbons against a dozen existing FTC every weekend as well as numerous pro handlers who make a living by training and handling these dogs in trials. Even the amateur handlers in a FT often have 5 to 40 years experience training and handling dogs to the highest standard.
tough is an understatement.