Trying to purchase a handgun

Glion · #1 01-02-2019, 02:57 PM

So I thought I would share my little experience I had today.
Let me preface by saying this is my 1st restricted firearm purchase. So I went and looked at a handgun the other day and agreed to purchase it from a dealer etc. I had asked him before if I needed to be a member of a club or range before purchase and he informed me no. So got the paperwork filled out and he sent away the stuff he had to. I then contacted the toll free number to give them my email and the info they needed. I asked the lady on the phone if I needed a range membership or not. She informed me that yes I do otherwise they would not approve it. Ok so I phoned the dealer back told him what she said and he again said I don't. Rather confused by now I decided to do more internet research than I had done before. Came away with both opinions again. So I phoned them again to ask again and was informed again that I needed a membership. But the lady said she would transfer me to the CFO for confirmation. So was transfered and hung up on. Great I thought, so called 1 more time and asked for transfer to CFO. Finally got the CFO on the phone fore Alberta, she was very helpful and informative. She told me I don't need a range pass or membership or anything for approval. However once I go to renew my PAL that is when I will need a membership. Soooo was interesting and confusing experience but glad I sort of figured it out. And not to worry I will be getting a range membership but I am not sure which one close to my house I want yet. But anyways if any of you were wondering the rules, that was the explanation I got.

CaberTosser · #2 01-02-2019, 03:43 PM

Some ranges have an 'associate' membership that is less expensive to cover this bureaucratic PITA. I have a membership with AHEIA which covers that aspect as they do have a range approved for restricted firearms. (Alberta Hunter Education Instructors Association). The nice thing with that membership is that the funds are helping to support their outdoor programs.

dgl1948 · #3 01-02-2019, 03:45 PM

I purchased my second handgun a couple of years ago. I indicated that I did not belong to a club but shot as a guest at a couple. They had no problems with that but this in Sask.

whiteout · #4 01-02-2019, 03:48 PM

You do not need a membership to buy a restricted or to renew a PAL, there is no requirement in the law for it. The CFO is fond of making up arbitrary rules and calling them laws and has yet to be challenged in court since they still try.

If you asked for the refusal in writing and then informed them you intend to ask for a Section 74 hearing in court, I would bet they back down very, very quick.

Puma · #5 01-02-2019, 10:07 PM

So what or where are you planning on doing with this handgun if you don't belong to a shooting range ? What is your lawful reason to own one ? Last time I checked, lawful reasons were target shooting, collector, and the one that they dont give license for.

CaberTosser · #6 01-02-2019, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puma

So what or where are you planning on doing with this handgun if you don't belong to a shooting range ? What is your lawful reason to own one ? Last time I checked, lawful reasons were target shooting, collector, and the one that they dont give license for.

What does it matter to you, you're not the CFO? That nobody's business but his, and barely the CFO's. Some people might wish to have restricteds to target shoot but don't shoot frequently so paying drop-in fees at ranges is more economical for them. Being that drop-in's are a completely legal way to go shoot why invent the requirement to have a membership in the first place? As with many absurdities in the Firearms Act, its just designed to make the hobby more difficult and expensive in an attempt to reduce the number of firearms owners. The entirely made-up requirement of having a membership at a range somewhere is simply over-reach of the CFO's.

Twisted Canuck · #7 01-02-2019, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

What does it matter to you, you're not the CFO? That nobody's business but his, and barely the CFO's. Some people might wish to have restricteds to target shoot but don't shoot frequently so paying drop-in fees at ranges is more economical for them. Being that drop-in's are a completely legal way to go shoot why invent the requirement to have a membership in the first place? As with many absurdities in the Firearms Act, its just designed to make the hobby more difficult and expensive in an attempt to reduce the number of firearms owners. The entirely made-up requirement of having a membership at a range somewhere is simply over-reach of the CFO's.

Exactly right, and very well said.

Puma · #8 01-02-2019, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

What does it matter to you, you're not the CFO? That nobody's business but his, and barely the CFO's. Some people might wish to have restricteds to target shoot but don't shoot frequently so paying drop-in fees at ranges is more economical for them. Being that drop-in's are a completely legal way to go shoot why invent the requirement to have a membership in the first place? As with many absurdities in the Firearms Act, its just designed to make the hobby more difficult and expensive in an attempt to reduce the number of firearms owners. The entirely made-up requirement of having a membership at a range somewhere is simply over-reach of the CFO's.

It doesn't matter to me. Right or wrong, that's just the rules we all have to play by.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

Bush Critter · #9 01-02-2019, 11:27 PM

Technically you don’t need a range membership in order to transfer a restricted but you kind of do it if you want to go shoot the thing...

partsman · #10 01-02-2019, 11:52 PM

Could be a collectable like some of mine, not for shooting.

58thecat · #11 01-03-2019, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puma

It doesn't matter to me. Right or wrong, that's just the rules we all have to play by.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

The OP indicated he/she wanted to buy it, has the RPAL, is that not enough?
Yes it is, collect, shoot periodically etc who cares, either way it is right, lawful purchase.

GStyler · #12 01-03-2019, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I have a membership with AHEIA which covers that aspect as they do have a range approved for restricted firearms.

CaberTosser, which range is that?
I thought they only had the Firearms Center in Dewinton, which is Trap/Skeet.
I can't find any other ranges on their website.

Glion · #13 01-03-2019, 10:10 AM

Sorry maybe I should have stated I do plan on getting a range pass just not yet. But I thought I would post my experience with calling in and how I received different information from different areas of government. And how in the end it seemed like the government didn't know their own rules and can leave the consumer more confused than before.

CaberTosser · #14 01-03-2019, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GStyler

CaberTosser, which range is that?
I thought they only had the Firearms Center in Dewinton, which is Trap/Skeet.
I can't find any other ranges on their website.

I think it's Alford Lake, but what would I know as I've never been there?! It was just the least expensive option and the CFO accepted it which was good enough for me. I can do my drop-in's at Calgary Shooting Centre, I don't see myself making the jaunt to wherever AHEIA's range is.

ganderblaster · #15 01-03-2019, 11:09 AM

What does it matter what he wants it for? Maybe just to take it out and look at it once every 10 years. It’s really nobody’s business but his. Stuff like this makes me cringe. Next thing you know people on this forum will be questioning my reasons to urinate and questioning if I did it in a safe and legal mannner. Get a grip and tend to your knitting.

GStyler · #16 01-03-2019, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I think it's Alford Lake, but what would I know as I've never been there?! It was just the least expensive option and the CFO accepted it which was good enough for me. I can do my drop-in's at Calgary Shooting Centre, I don't see myself making the jaunt to wherever AHEIA's range is.

Ah, Gotcha. Clever.
Thanks.

whiteout · #17 01-03-2019, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bush Critter

Technically you don’t need a range membership in order to transfer a restricted but you kind of do it if you want to go shoot the thing...

Really? Care to point to the section of the firearms act that states I need to have a range membership to shot a restricted?

bat119 · #18 01-03-2019, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteout

Really? Care to point to the section of the firearms act that states I need to have a range membership to shot a restricted?

Where else can you shoot?

CaberTosser · #19 01-03-2019, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bat119

Where else can you shoot?

Any range that allows non-member drop ins. Of course they must only be used at a range approved for restricted firearms, the membership 'requirement' is just an overreach by non-elected bureaucrats.

bat119 · #20 01-03-2019, 01:43 PM

Interesting
The range here charges $40 + you have to buy factory ammunition from them much cheaper to buy a range membership and shoot reloads but whatever floats your boat.

IronNoggin · #21 01-03-2019, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteout

You do not need a membership to buy a restricted or to renew a PAL, there is no requirement in the law for it. The CFO is fond of making up arbitrary rules and calling them laws and has yet to be challenged in court since they still try.

If you asked for the refusal in writing and then informed them you intend to ask for a Section 74 hearing in court, I would bet they back down very, very quick.

BINGO!

Here in BC they are doing the exact same.
Held my RPAL up to the point I was in a compromised position of holding my restricteds illegally.
They did NOT contact me to explain why.
Took repeated attempts to wring the answer out of them.
My Lawyer was the next to have a little chat with them.
The RPAL was sent out that same day, as fast as they could possibly get it to me.

And yeah, I have memberships to TWO Clubs with ranges here.
That wasn't the point at all.
Their overstepping their bounds was.
Just renewed early (doing a prior C - 71 thing).
They didn't bother to ask this time around.

Cheers,
Nog

whiteout · #22 01-03-2019, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bat119

Where else can you shoot?

At any approved range that doesn’t require a membership to shoot.

It’s also not about “whatever floats my boat”. It’s about the obvious overreach by the CFO and the apparent willingness of firearms owners to bend to the will of an bureaucratic group that sets their own rules and calls them laws. The CFO should be challenged every single time they try this and maybe they’ll stop and actually do their actual job and nothing more

Justfishin73 · #23 01-03-2019, 03:50 PM

One more reason I gave up on restricted---way too much hassle.

Just need a buddy with his--then good to go!

Twisted Canuck · #24 01-03-2019, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justfishin73

One more reason I gave up on restricted---way too much hassle.

Just need a buddy with his--then good to go!

If enough people give up because of the hassle, that's the whole point. Then your 'buddy' won't have his either because banning is the end game. The more people who own restricted, and challenge the stupid hassle, the better. Don't be a quitter on this.

bat119 · #25 01-03-2019, 04:30 PM

From the RCMP website:
Target Shooting Practice and Competition
To be authorized to have restricted firearms for target shooting purposes, an individual must provide proof that he or she practices or competes at an approved shooting club or range. For more information about approved shooting clubs and ranges, contact the appropriate provincial or territorial CFO by calling 1-800-731-4000.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

I looked through the regs and couldn't find anything to back this up, that's pretty shifty alright.

CaberTosser · #26 01-03-2019, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justfishin73

One more reason I gave up on restricted---way too much hassle.

Just need a buddy with his--then good to go!

The regs were intentionally designed to make firearms ownership very difficult (restricteds particularly) so that our numbers would dwindle and then they could bring in even more onerous restrictions or outright bans when they'd get less political resistance to doing so. By giving up and thinking "I'll just go with my friend" then you've essentially capitulated and might not be able to go with your friend for long. Please ante in.

bat119 · #27 01-03-2019, 06:01 PM

The electronic age actually made buying a restricted easier.
In 1978 firearms were handled by the local police in my case the Regina city police.
The procedure was to get the green card from the seller take it to station they would issue you an ATT with a designated route and time to pick up the restricted then take it to the station for firearm verification after that the police would issue you another ATT with a route to take it home. The hours were from 10 AM till 3 PM certain weekdays IF an officer was available in other words you needed a day off the complete the task.
If purchased by mail order the pistol would be sent directly to the station and they would phone when they had time to deal with you.
Believe it or not, it's better now than it was back then.

6MT · #28 01-04-2019, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glion

So I thought I would share my little experience I had today.
Let me preface by saying this is my 1st restricted firearm purchase. So I went and looked at a handgun the other day and agreed to purchase it from a dealer etc. I had asked him before if I needed to be a member of a club or range before purchase and he informed me no. So got the paperwork filled out and he sent away the stuff he had to. I then contacted the toll free number to give them my email and the info they needed. I asked the lady on the phone if I needed a range membership or not. She informed me that yes I do otherwise they would not approve it. Ok so I phoned the dealer back told him what she said and he again said I don't. Rather confused by now I decided to do more internet research than I had done before. Came away with both opinions again. So I phoned them again to ask again and was informed again that I needed a membership. But the lady said she would transfer me to the CFO for confirmation. So was transfered and hung up on. Great I thought, so called 1 more time and asked for transfer to CFO. Finally got the CFO on the phone fore Alberta, she was very helpful and informative. She told me I don't need a range pass or membership or anything for approval. However once I go to renew my PAL that is when I will need a membership. Soooo was interesting and confusing experience but glad I sort of figured it out. And not to worry I will be getting a range membership but I am not sure which one close to my house I want yet. But anyways if any of you were wondering the rules, that was the explanation I got.

My question to the OP would be, just where do you think you're going to shoot that new hand gun? Or is it just for a collector's piece?

JamesinthePark · #29 01-04-2019, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bat119

Where else can you shoot?

Montana.

BuckCuller · #30 01-05-2019, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6MT

My question to the OP would be, just where do you think you're going to shoot that new hand gun? Or is it just for a collector's piece?

There are a lot of ranges you can go as a guest with someone else and pay ten or twenty bucks to shoot.
Or there are some ranges that allow drop in’s such as the RDSC that are more like 40 bucks a day to shoot.