Humboldt Sentence

[fordtruckin]

I agree he needs to be punished but am not sure the sentence fits the crime in this case. I do give the drive credit for not dragging the court case out by pleading guilty. Can’t say many people would own up and do the same if they had done this. Most drag things on so they can get a reduced sentence or reduced charges. Maybe the courts appreciated his accountability and took that into consideration. Who knows. I just feel awe full for those involved in this tradegy! Too much loss of life for nothing!

[Cement Bench]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

I agree he needs to be punished but am not sure the sentence fits the crime in this case. I do give the drive credit for not dragging the court case out by pleading guilty. Can’t say many people would own up and do the same if they had done this. Most drag things on so they can get a reduced sentence or reduced charges. Maybe the courts appreciated his accountability and took that into consideration. Who knows. I just feel awe full for those involved in this tradegy! Too much loss of life for nothing!

the evidence was 100% against him and he would have been hammered if he would have tried to have a trial

also he knows 100% he will be deported so he had no choice but to plead guilty

would like to see the agreed statement of facts if there was one

[fred1]

The magnitude of the carnage & damage caused is massive almost beyond comprehension. I have no comments about the length of sententence but I have a question that I am asking myself and all of you. By the way there is no need to post a reply to my question, just something to ponder. Who has ever suddenly seen a vehicle that only moments earlier did not seem to be there and thought wow this could have turned out bad. This is not an attempt to minimize or justify what happened.

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by fred1

The magnitude of the carnage & damage caused is massive almost beyond comprehension. I have no comments about the length of sententence but I have a question that I am asking myself and all of you. By the way there is no need to post a reply to my question, just something to ponder. Who has ever suddenly seen a vehicle that only moments earlier did not seem to be there and thought wow this could have turned out bad. This is not an attempt to minimize or justify what happened.

I was zoned out 2 weeks ago and drove totally through a red light...and could not believe I did that....But driving on a highway and many red and stop lights, I don't think it would be possible....

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by scalerman

Clearly I believe that he deliberately chose to blow through the stop sign. This was a deliberate act, an unintended consequence of that action is the death of 16 people and the injuries to 13 more. By choosing to blow the stop sign he clearly was willing to assume the risk involved regardless of what that was. That makes it murder in my mind.

Was there evidence brought forth that would clearly indicate that he knowingly and deliberately chose to run that stop or is this an assumption on your part?

He was charged with dangerous driving, not murder. If it was deliberate, then it would have been murder.

[scalerman]

He drove past four different signs indicating that there was a stop sign ahead. The stop sign itself had a flashing light on it. The driver admitted not stopping at the sign. Do you need more evidence?

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by scalerman

He drove past four different signs indicating that there was a stop sign ahead. The stop sign itself had a flashing light on it. The driver admitted not stopping at the sign. Do you need more evidence?

He admitted not stopping but that doesn't necessarily make it deliberate as you assume. If it was a deliberate act and the crown could prove it, wouldn't the charges would reflect that?

[scalerman]

Originally Posted by SuperCub

He admitted not stopping but that doesn't necessarily make it deliberate as you assume. If it was a deliberate act and the crown could prove it, wouldn't the charges would reflect that?

Does admitting running the stop sign not amount to a deliberate act? My original post stated that when he chose to run the stop sign he then chose, by default, the consequences of his actions. His actions included the deaths of 16 people and injuring 13 more. Choosing not to obey the stop sign makes this a deliberate act. I sir am not a lawyer, I don't know if the charges could have been upgraded. Sometimes they lessen thee the charge from something they want to convict for to something they can get a conviction for.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by scalerman

Does admitting running the stop sign not amount to a deliberate act? My original post stated that when he chose to run the stop sign he then chose, by default, the consequences of his actions. His actions included the deaths of 16 people and injuring 13 more. Choosing not to obey the stop sign makes this a deliberate act. I sir am not a lawyer, I don't know if the charges could have been upgraded. Sometimes they lessen thee the charge from something they want to convict for to something they can get a conviction for.

His intention was to go through the stop sign yes. He admitted to that. I don't think anyone believes he purposely targeted the bus. Premeditated murder is a completely different thing.
Not long ago a young man from here was killed, nearly killed his daughter too when a distraught man in a semi chose to kill himself by crossing the line and driving into the 1 ton. There was a note. That was premeditated. Had he lived I would bet there would be a charge of murder and attempted murder.
This was not that. ( we hope )

[Cement Bench]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

His intention was to go through the stop sign yes. He admitted to that. I don't think anyone believes he purposely targeted the bus. Premeditated murder is a completely different thing.
Not long ago a young man from here was killed, nearly killed his daughter too when a distraught man in a semi chose to kill himself by crossing the line and driving into the 1 ton. There was a note. That was premeditated. Had he lived I would bet there would be a charge of murder and attempted murder.
This was not that. ( we hope )

agreed and correct-a-mun-dough

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

His intention was to go through the stop sign yes. He admitted to that. I don't think anyone believes he purposely targeted the bus. Premeditated murder is a completely different thing.
Not long ago a young man from here was killed, nearly killed his daughter too when a distraught man in a semi chose to kill himself by crossing the line and driving into the 1 ton. There was a note. That was premeditated. Had he lived I would bet there would be a charge of murder and attempted murder.
This was not that. ( we hope )

Should have just laid across the train tracks. Much greater success rate. No one else gets hurt.

[ren008]

I see the owner Mr. Singh has been found guilty this morning and fined a whopping total of $5,000 for his involvement.

Sad.

[scalerman]

At no time did I say that he had targeted the bus, my point is that by choosing to run the stop sign, the driver has made a deliberate decision to do so. The events after that decision are now deliberate, tragic to be sure but deliberate nonetheless. No bus at that time and we are not having this discussion, the fact of the matter is that the bus was there. His deliberate choice to blow through the stop sign translates into a deliberate act of hitting the bus, thus making the act now murder.Every time someone blows through a stop sign this could be the result. That is my opinion.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by scalerman

At no time did I say that he had targeted the bus, my point is that by choosing to run the stop sign, the driver has made a deliberate decision to do so. The events after that decision are now deliberate, tragic to be sure but deliberate nonetheless. No bus at that time and we are not having this discussion, the fact of the matter is that the bus was there. His deliberate choice to blow through the stop sign translates into a deliberate act of hitting the bus, thus making the act now murder.Every time someone blows through a stop sign this could be the result. That is my opinion.

You keep using the word DELIBERATE. Where in the testimony does it say that? I know he did run the stop sign, but I don't see where it stated he did it on purpose?

**done consciously and intentionally***

Thats the definition of DELIBERATE.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by sns2

Should have just laid across the train tracks. Much greater success rate. No one else gets hurt.

I agree. The destroyed family that was left behind, young wife and little girls that could not understand why Daddy is not coming back would agree as well. The widow is still a wreck, several years later. She is scared to go out in public because everyone still hugs her and then she cant drive for an hour, sobbing so hard.
Heartbreaking.

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by Jamie

You keep using the word DELIBERATE. Where in the testimony does it say that? I know he did run the stop sign, but I don't see where it stated he did it on purpose?

**done consciously and intentionally***

Thats the definition of DELIBERATE.

To be fair here, I was I that first used the word "deliberate" in this discussion. it was in response to the following quote that stated that the driver "chose to ignore the stop sign".

Originally Posted by scalerman

He chose to ignore the stop sign, therefore choosing to end those lives.

I asserted that choosing to run that sign and end lives would have been a deliberate action and would have required a different charge from the crown and a whole different sentencing outcome.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by SuperCub

To be fair here, I was I that first used the word "deliberate" in this discussion. it was in response to the following quote that stated that the driver "chose to ignore the stop sign".



I asserted that choosing to run that sign and end lives would have been a deliberate action and would have required a different charge from the crown and a whole different sentencing outcome.

The frightening thing may be though, that he did intend to hit the bus. We do not know. It brings up an entire new set of things to worry about. We will never know if he intentionally hit the bus or not, unless someone comes up with a probe into the brain that rewinds past events and plays them in technicolor.

I hate to be that conspiracy theorist guy, I believe that planes hit the buildings on 911 and that the moon landings were not faked, but there is a possibility that on this day this guy said 'I am going to go kill people'.

He may have had motive, and in the end got away with it.

[Sundog57]

So what's the answer?
Shoot him?
Break him on the wheel?
Quarter him with draft horses?
Hang him upside down by his nuts until his scrotum pulls off and then flay him?
The guy's is going to jail but he still has to live with the fact that his inattention caused 16 people to die.
So unless he's a psychopath he's going to pay and pay and pay.
Anyone who has ever driven on Highway 2 or Highway 63 has seen assh*les driving like assh*les and putting others at risk.
This guy was one who got caught and he's going away for 10 years.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Sundog57

So what's the answer?
Shoot him?

Anyone who has ever driven on Highway 2 or Highway 63 has seen assh*les driving like assh*les and putting others at risk.
This guy was one who got caught and he's going away for 10 years.

and 14 and 16 and 897 and 883 and 17 and.....

[scalerman]

Did he not consciously and intentionally decide to ignore the stop sign? His deliberate action in blowing through the stop sign is the cause of the accident. If he had stopped, no tragedy. A horrific case of cause and effect

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by scalerman

At no time did I say that he had targeted the bus, my point is that by choosing to run the stop sign, the driver has made a deliberate decision to do so. The events after that decision are now deliberate, tragic to be sure but deliberate nonetheless. No bus at that time and we are not having this discussion, the fact of the matter is that the bus was there. His deliberate choice to blow through the stop sign translates into a deliberate act of hitting the bus, thus making the act now murder.Every time someone blows through a stop sign this could be the result. That is my opinion.

It may be your opinion, but from a legal perspective it is totally wrong.

[357Maximum]

Originally Posted by sns2

Should have just laid across the train tracks. Much greater success rate. No one else gets hurt.

Except the train crew . How would you like to witness someone being killed ?


What a stupid suggestion........