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Old 05-23-2020, 12:51 PM
Dariouskater Dariouskater is online now
 
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Default Savage 11 Extractor sticking?

So a bit of history.
My first rifle had a lot of problems straight off the shelf. It is a Savage 11 Varget with a heavy Barrel chambered in .308.
When I first shot it the brass was destroyed and locked into my chamber.
After some frantic calls from the range to a gunsmith and some delicate use of a cleaning rod later I extracted the brass to find some wicked looking shiny chamber burrs.
Six months later I finally get it back from the warranty department of Grech Outdoor with a Service ticket saying everything has been repaired. chamber was filed smooth and rifle was test fired with no issues.

Now 30 rounds later I'm noticing that the brass on every second or third shot is not extracting properly. I will work the Bolt and it will lock into place. So I will stop, Reset the bolt, work it again and it will extract the brass without issues. The brass is unmarked.

Is this a brass expansion issue?
Or is there an issue with my Chamber Throat or extractor?
Or is this simply an Oiling and Maintenance issue that will become more Smooth as I continue to use the rifle and wear in?

If it Helps I'm using:
Federal 150 Grain Non-Typical Whitetail in Soft Point.





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Old 05-23-2020, 01:26 PM
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Savage extractors work better on some types of brass than others.
Try Winchester or Remington brass.
There are a few upgrade kits available but a good gunsmith will be able to get it working without ordering a bunch of parts. There is a round detent on the back of the extractor. Sometimes this needs to be expanded a bit so that the extractor grips/slides over the brass further. Sometimes the extractor lip can be expanded or opened up as well. Other times the ejector plunger spring can be softened or strengthened depending on if the brass is failing to eject.

Shooting factory loads I doubt you are sticking the case due to pressure.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:35 PM
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Thank you for the Reply,
I would hate for this to have to go for repairs again as I took 6 months last time it was sent away and was a nightmare trying to deal with the companies.

So you recommend I just let a gunsmith have a look at it and see if it is an issue with the extractor spacing?

Would this cause the bolt to lock forward when trying to extract brass?
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dariouskater View Post
Thank you for the Reply,
I would hate for this to have to go for repairs again as I took 6 months last time it was sent away and was a nightmare trying to deal with the companies.

So you recommend I just let a gunsmith have a look at it and see if it is an issue with the extractor spacing?

Would this cause the bolt to lock forward when trying to extract brass?
No problem
The bolt being stuck forward after firing seems like a stuck case pressure problem. Is your fired brass clean and unmarked after the warranty repair?

I would try a different box of factory loads and if your having the same issues, seek out a gunsmith. They should be able to diagnose your issue if you give them some problem brass.
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:35 PM
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I would get hold of Savage and tell them u want the gun replaced completely or a refund issued. This this is clearly a lemon. I would not mess around with it personally.
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Old 05-23-2020, 03:55 PM
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All of the Brass is coming out clean now after the repair.
Once I get home I will post some pictures of the bolt, extractor, and chamber.
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Old 05-23-2020, 08:23 PM
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So i've emailed Savage to see what they have to say.
In the meantime here are pictures of the chamber, spent brass, and bolt.





[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/oJZWcoY.jpg[/IMG
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:45 AM
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Everything looks good there. Try Remington factory loads. It will do two things. Determine if you had possible overpressure from the Federal factory loads, which is unlikely but possible. And the case head diameter of Remington brass is usually on the larger size of spec which will help with extraction.

If it doesn't work reliably, either see if a gunsmith can fix it or fight with savage for a return/refund.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
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I would get hold of Savage and tell them u want the gun replaced completely or a refund issued. This this is clearly a lemon. I would not mess around with it personally.
Agreed. Sounds like you got a dud.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:55 AM
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Darios

Let us know what Savage has to say please. If they don't stand behind their product I won't be buying any more of it, even though they make a lot of LH options.
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Old 05-24-2020, 11:22 AM
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I will keep you guys up to date as I get more information. Savage site says they are closed until middle of next week so I'm not expecting a response any time soon.
Im heading out on Tuesday to do some more shooting. If it happens again Ill grab some more photos and let you know how it turns out.
Also thanks for the advice on the ammo. I will give a try.
I was shooting Hornady ELD-X before and never had a issue so hopefully it is just the factory brass.
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Old 05-24-2020, 12:26 PM
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So after doing a huge amount or reading on a number of boards it looks like there is an issue with not enough headspace that is stopping the primary extraction and causing the bolt to lock.

Apparently its been an issue in Savage rifles for years that they haven't resolved.

Im still waiting to hear back from savage before I do anything else. Hopefully it wont take too much to get this resolved as I've already had nothing but problems with this rifle since day 1.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:31 PM
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Savage has been good to me, but really should have checked it before sending it back to you last time. Especially with chamber work. I agree with dean, you should be getting a new rifle or refund.

If that doesnít pan out....Iím not an expert, but a set of go/no go gauges would tell you about headspace and since itís a savage, that can be corrected easily. Quick trip to a gunsmith would have you sorted if youíre not comfortable doing it yourself.

Very occasionally you get a min or max chamber + out of spec ammo problem. I wouldnít call it an ongoing issue, but it is possible in any mass produced factory gun. Since itís working on some ammo and not others, you might have found the wrong combo for that gun. Still wouldnít shoot it without checking. Good luck
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:43 AM
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Received a response requesting I contact their Canadian customer service center. Will let you guys know what they say.
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:27 PM
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So now I'm about ready to pull my hair out.

Savage got back to me and gave me the number for their Canadian center.
I contact them and find out they are rimfire only. They tell me to contact Grech Outdoors who did the original servicing.

Contact Grech and the gunsmith says to try cleaning my chamber with a .410 brush. If that doesn't work mail it back to them to machine re-polish everything. Said it sounds like my chamber is what they call "Black" or "so dirty its one step before rusting"..... I have less then 50 rounds through this gun since the day I bought the thing. It has been kept well maintained and dry first in a sealed case with moisture absorbers then in a safe with the same.

I'm going to try a different type of ammo in the hopes it is just a factory ammo that the gun doesn't like.

If that doesn't work then I guess its back to Savage again to step up the game.
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dariouskater View Post
So now I'm about ready to pull my hair out.

Savage got back to me and gave me the number for their Canadian center.
I contact them and find out they are rimfire only. They tell me to contact Grech Outdoors who did the original servicing.

Contact Grech and the gunsmith says to try cleaning my chamber with a .410 brush. If that doesn't work mail it back to them to machine re-polish everything. Said it sounds like my chamber is what they call "Black" or "so dirty its one step before rusting"..... I have less then 50 rounds through this gun since the day I bought the thing. It has been kept well maintained and dry first in a sealed case with moisture absorbers then in a safe with the same.

I'm going to try a different type of ammo in the hopes it is just a factory ammo that the gun doesn't like.

If that doesn't work then I guess its back to Savage again to step up the game.
You are being fed a load. They already had the gun back once to fix the chamber, are they saying they didn't do it right? How in the hell does it now have a "Black" chamber. That isn't even a gun term I have ever heard in 55 years of shooting. You are clearly way easier going than I am, this would have got stepped up on this phone call. I would not be burning more powder and expense to try and sort out a gun that is clearly not put together right. I can't think of a gun that would not shoot factory ammo, might not group great, but feed and eject, no problem. If their gun won't shoot factory ammo it is the guns fault, not yours. Best of luck, whatever you decide.
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
You are being fed a load. They already had the gun back once to fix the chamber, are they saying they didn't do it right? How in the hell does it now have a "Black" chamber. That isn't even a gun term I have ever heard in 55 years of shooting. You are clearly way easier going than I am, this would have got stepped up on this phone call. I would not be burning more powder and expense to try and sort out a gun that is clearly not put together right. I can't think of a gun that would not shoot factory ammo, might not group great, but feed and eject, no problem. If their gun won't shoot factory ammo it is the guns fault, not yours. Best of luck, whatever you decide.
Ive already messaged Savage about the interaction with Grech telling them I want an answer.
I will let you know the result.
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Old 05-27-2020, 01:31 PM
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Does the brass have a frosty appearance and/ or rings marks around it?
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Old 05-27-2020, 01:43 PM
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Brass all seems clean. Pics of it are posted above. Not the brass with the grooves from the original chamber burr repair

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Old 05-29-2020, 08:47 AM
Dariouskater Dariouskater is online now
 
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Well results are in folks. Looks like the big answer from Savage is: Your in Canada so we dont care!

Below is the direct qoute:
"HI
We are currently in the US. Please contact our warranty station below.

Grech Outdoors
115 Fergus St. S.
Mount Forest, ON
N0G 2L2

Ph. 519-509-4867
We are not able to provide shipping labels for customers in Canada. Our policy states it is the responsibility of the firearms owner to cover shipping costs for sending the firearm in for repair.

For updates on status of firearms in service at Grech, please contact ph. 519-509-4867.

thank you,"

Just means that I will never be buying another Savage Rifle again.
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dariouskater View Post
Well results are in folks. Looks like the big answer from Savage is: Your in Canada so we dont care!

Just means that I will never be buying another Savage Rifle again.
Hang in there and keep trying to get your rifle replaced, repaired or refunded. I hope it works out for you.

I have owned a couple of Savage rifles in the past and didn't have any problems with them. However, your original photos plus the lack of customer support ensure that I will never buy another of their firearms. Too bad that a great old company has deteriorated to this extent.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:00 AM
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Hang in there and keep trying to get your rifle replaced, repaired or refunded. I hope it works out for you.

I have owned a couple of Savage rifles in the past and didn't have any problems with them. However, your original photos plus the lack of customer support ensure that I will never buy another of their firearms. Too bad that a great old company has deteriorated to this extent.
I am hanging in there. I sent back a rather scathing reply about getting me in touch with someone who actually cares about their clients.
If that doesn't work ill be selling the rifle to someone with the experience to do the work themselves and buying a new rifle from a different company.

At least then i will stop having all the issues.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:15 AM
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I am hanging in there. I sent back a rather scathing reply about getting me in touch with someone who actually cares about their clients.
If that doesn't work ill be selling the rifle to someone with the experience to do the work themselves and buying a new rifle from a different company.

At least then i will stop having all the issues.
It is very easy to tell people to pee off in email. If it were me, I would get on the phone and work up the chain of command till I could talk to someone that can make a proper decision. If they would not pass me to someone senior I would ask to talk to their legal department and ask them for their legal service address for service of papers. That usually gets their attention pretty damn fast.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
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It is very easy to tell people to pee off in email. If it were me, I would get on the phone and work up the chain of command till I could talk to someone that can make a proper decision. If they would not pass me to someone senior I would ask to talk to their legal department and ask them for their legal service address for service of papers. That usually gets their attention pretty damn fast.
Thanks for the advice,
I believe this will be my next step.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
It is very easy to tell people to pee off in email. If it were me, I would get on the phone and work up the chain of command till I could talk to someone that can make a proper decision. If they would not pass me to someone senior I would ask to talk to their legal department and ask them for their legal service address for service of papers. That usually gets their attention pretty damn fast.
I wanted to thank you for this advice.
After receiving another email reply to just contact Grecg outdoors I decided to pick up the phone and call.
I explained the issue to M. J. with their support department who said he believes I have a faulty extractor and he would be happy to ship me a brand new extractor free of charge.
Now to wait for 2 to 3 weeks for it to arrive from the states and hopefully all is working properly as it should.

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Old 05-29-2020, 05:16 PM
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I have had great service from savage USA for a # of parts from triggers, action screws to bolt faces. Always talk to them on the phone. For some reason I never even try the email route for warranty. Always call and talk to a rep. Same goes for vortex, bushel and celestron. If I need service I speak to a person.
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:32 AM
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In the pic that extractor looks good,can't see the under side cut though.
Dealt with this issue last fall on a new Axis,wouldn't extract 1 of 3 times.The problem was obvious in my case,40% of the extractor face was not there from factory,it was coated Black so you could tell it wasn't broke off.
I had a new replacement in my parts bin,swapped it out and problem resolved.
Savage sent me a replacement extractor with spring and detent ball included,free of charge.
I have had the pleasure of dealing with Grech Outdoors in the past,twice(slow learner)direct with Savage USA is always excellent customer service for parts.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:38 AM
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Yeah I will never do any service through Grech again after the first time. They actually lost my rifle in their system for a while. I have it all in email.
It took nearly 4 months or so to get my rifle fixed after the above burr removal.

Only reason I did it that time was because it was completely free of charge. Everything was covered by manufacturer. Including S&H
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