Alberta as 51st US State

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Probably evens out when you consider how much of your income is used in taxes to fund the Canadian system. Or more.

(my original answer)

Does it though?



There are a hundred things that our taxes go to, or is it a hundred thousand things?

Every time you say 'it evens out' you are talking about one single thing, in this case hypothetical costs for medicaire.

I say it does not even out.


After google search

The Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) believes Canada spent approximately $228 billion on health care in 2016. That's 11.1 per cent of Canada's entire GDP and $6,299 for every Canadian resident. That per capita rate would put Canada near the high end of what other advanced economies pay.Aug 2, 2017


Damn you guys are smart.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Ronaround

This year i just signed up. 275.00 us per month. 6K deductible. for 100% coverage. Drs.office 25.00 per visit.
blood draws and such covered . age 62.5

wife 61 187.00 same cost apply. its bit of Obamma care.
But i can say we dont have to wait for surgery's for long standing issues.
bad back ,bad hip etc. schedule it, maybe 2-6 months max.
would i be correct my understanding that some scheduled surgery's are up to 5 year wait. My guide in Newfy was waiting 5 years for his back surgery and he was hurting too.

When you say $6k deductible, do you mean that even with you and your wife paying $450/month, you still have to pay the first $6000 of a medical procedure?

[Ronaround]

Originally Posted by sns2

When you say $6k deductible, do you mean that even with you and your wife paying $450/month, you still have to pay the first $6000 of a medical procedure?

First, All DR. visits 25.00, meds at discounts, blood draws,etc.covered.
Major stuff get paid 70% and we pick up difference until we hit 6k, then 100% rest of calendar year.
So say you had a heart attack, 250k worth of bills. 6k max,is all you pay, they (insurance comp) covers all the rest ,and until end of year every thing else is too. so add a hip replacement, bypass and its on them.
Now, most have insurance paid by employer at larger firms. I own a communication company. Smaller not more than 4 employees. we get hit harder, and with that Turd Obamma set rules my company cant pay for certain deductibles as we could before. liberalism helping the ones not wanting to help themselves cost all of us,plenty.

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

$5,544.00 per year and $6,000 deductible?

I would have spent $144,000 (before deductible) for the wife and I over 26 years to have absolutely nothing other than Pulmonary Adema from fighting fire a couple years ago.

Thanks, pass.

A guy like you has probably paid well more than that towards our healthcare in 26 years.

Also, how much have you paid in house/vehicle/boat insurance over the years compared to what you have had to claim?

[buckbrush]

Ken, just read your reply a few lines up. Maybe it hasn't evened out from your income taxes but all of the OTHER taxes you have to pay or the taxes that get passed on through higher prices to consumers.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

hard to do something when not invited....dismissed from a meeting because you tell the truth....meh.

So now what can Kenney do? Apparently actions speak louder than words....take control of his province and enforce the law upon those illegal gatherings etc...stir the pot a bit...

PSSSssTTTT ...the rail is a FEDERAL matter not provincial

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by zabbo

Think you're wrong on both counts. Your "plan" is to ride out the storm and it will soon be over! I'm having some real problems buying that. If anything it's likely to get worse. MUCH worse! As far as the turd not being around in a short time; not very likely. After all the crap shows during his first four years, $10.5M under the table to kadhar, mr dress up in India, telling veterans," we just can't afford what you're asking for", and so many more, he still got elected. True it is a minority, but only due to the fact that the block won so many seats in qeeeebec. The grand finale was the Jody Wilson-Raybould fiasco a few short months before the election! Pretty much shot himself in the political head and still came out on top. Sheer didn't put up much of a fight and that's the truth, but what kind of fight can the conservatives put up right now. Don't count on a non confidence vote, because all he has to do is make the block happy and he has majority. Pretty much like three members of the green party calling the shots in B.C. We all know how it pleases him to make Canada's spoiled child happy! He will very likely be around for a long time!

As for being treated fairly, yes, if we adopt your plan it won't happen. There is nothing wrong with exploring options, which is exactly what this discussion is all about. If you honestly don't believe change can happen, pick any Canadian newscast and see what our F.N. people are up to. That is a totally different discussion for another thread and I only mention it as an example of what can be accomplished.

So what's your plan? I only indicated the steps needed to become a state which wont happen because Albertans don't agree and it would be a poop show. So what is the alternatives....stop...don't go to work..barricade FN access to their reservations? Nope because the average Joe is better than that and is proud of what they earned....so what's the plan going forward...your vision?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

PSSSssTTTT ...the rail is a FEDERAL matter not provincial

It's all piled into the same heap of BS....the turd will not listen...unlawful gathering are just that and need to be removed immediately so what is left of the economy can keep on keeping on...

[lmtada]

https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/ne...n-goose/326397

“You buy a ticket to Florida and cut your taxes by 25 per cent right away,” says Timokhov. “What would you do? If you’re an upper-middle-class or high-net-worth Canadian, you don’t think twice about it.”

A move to the south might be more tempting as Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s federal Liberals continue to push “tax the wealthy” proposals. With the NDP advocating for similar policies, legislative changes could make it to the finish line.

The Liberals’ so-called luxury tax, tentative mention of increasing capital gains exemption amounts and an NDP proposal to increase the top personal tax bracket by another two per cent fit in with the recent climate of the attack on the “rich.”

“It’s an easy sell,” says Kim Moody, CEO and director of Canadian tax advisory at Moodys Gartner Tax Law LLP in Calgary, of the luxury tax, which would add an extra 10 per cent on any vehicles, boats or aircraft that cost $100,000 or more.

He says the average person would look at that and think that, yes, they should pay the government more if they want a plane or a big boat — but what’s fair about that?

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by zabbo

In my view, the current situation in Alberta just isn't working. We don't have a whole lot of options. Flat out separation seems to have far too many obstacles. Currency (zero international recognition), passports, police, military, no trade agreements and plenty more. We can't get oil to tidewater as part of Canada. Wouldn't have any hope as a separate country. Could try the same tactic quebec has been using for a long time. Distinct society, country within a country. Pretty much the only other option is join the states. Almost instantly the medical issue is brought up. Just remember, the system we have here is NOT free. We pay dearly for it through taxes! Lots of them. Alberta spends more than 40% of government revenues on medicare, way more per capita than any other province in the country. We also have some of the longest wait times. As far as two tier, we have always had that and maybe even three tier. Take Joe lunch bucket, wealthy business person and the turd. The turd has a sniffle and has a doctor at his home, office or hotel room in five minutes. Joe is diagnosed with cancer, waits 4 to 6 months for MRI and other diagnostics. Then they try to decide on treatment. Another 3 to 6 months wait time. You can read all about Joe in his obit. Wealthy business person is on a plane and in Mayo clinic, receiving treatment in 24 to 48 hours. If you are working in the US, there is a good chance you have medical coverage there. True, there are some boorish Americans. I've had the misfortune to meet a few Canadians that were just as bad or worse.

At this point, I'm personally very disillusioned with the state of affairs in this country and the more I see of the turd, the worse it gets.

MY $.02.

Originally Posted by zabbo

WOW! Guess this is a good indication why political threads were shut down in the past.

Anyway Selkirk, judging by your comments, I have to assume you are perfectly happy with the current situation and leadership in Canada, Alberta in particular. If so, your decision, your choice. Good on Ya. That said, it seems other people, myself included, are not so content and we're willing to at least look at options. I see this discussion as a way to examine what possible alternatives we may have. Myself, I don't see a lot of choices. Basically, sit back, shut up and keep on taking what we have been (not my first choice), attempt to follow quebecs lead and become a country within a country (probably never be allowed by the current administration), try to go it alone as a new country (all sorts of issues there), or become the 51st state. Can anyone out there offer any other possibilities?

Originally Posted by 58thecat

So what's your plan? I only indicated the steps needed to become a state which wont happen because Albertans don't agree and it would be a poop show. So what is the alternatives....stop...don't go to work..barricade FN access to their reservations? Nope because the average Joe is better than that and is proud of what they earned....so what's the plan going forward...your vision?

A trick from your playbook. Post #30 and #64 from this thread. Willing to look at options, any and all. Obviously, I don't see very many. From the end of #64, can anyone out there offer any other possibilities? At this point I don't fully support any plan, but your plan to go with the flow and ride it out would probably be my last choice.

[lmtada]

This video will make you boil over. Go to 5:30 minute mark until the end. Justin Trudeau on recent trip to Africa. Promises Senegal 🇸🇳 to provide support for Oil projects reaching Markets. WTF?? Noticed didn’t reach media headlines. Except financial post.

https://youtu.be/tk1gJZhebcY

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by lmtada

This video will make you boil over. Go to 5:30 minute mark until the end. Justin Trudeau on recent trip to Africa. Promises Senegal 🇸🇳 to provide support for Oil projects reaching Markets. WTF?? Noticed didn’t reach media headlines. Except financial post.

https://youtu.be/tk1gJZhebcY

Oh, the irony. Canada isn't broken enough, that PM can't find new and creative ways to wreck it more. So very progressive and sanctimonious.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by zabbo

A trick from your playbook. Post #30 and #64 from this thread. Willing to look at options, any and all. Obviously, I don't see very many. From the end of #64, can anyone out there offer any other possibilities? At this point I don't fully support any plan, but your plan to go with the flow and ride it out would probably be my last choice.

It's nice to have a choice eh!

So I will ask again...options....what are the viable options? Once you indicate these options, implement a structured plan as to how these will be executed and come into play.....hmmmm pretty complicated eh! That's why we are not front runners in politics because it's a whole bunch of lying and back stabbing etc

[FishHunterPro]

I wouldn’t be for it, more competition for jobs , fishing and hunting. It’s 330M people that if they really wanted could move here . Sounds terrible

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by FishHunterPro

I wouldn’t be for it, more competition for jobs , fishing and hunting. It’s 330M people that if they really wanted could move here . Sounds terrible

Do you realize that many Alberta residents, and some companies have found employment in the USA in recent years? With our current economy, the ability to more easily work in the USA would benefit us more than them. As far as hunting and fishing, the reverse is also true, we could hunt and fish in the USA as American residents.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

It's nice to have a choice eh!

So I will ask again...options....what are the viable options? Once you indicate these options, implement a structured plan as to how these will be executed and come into play.....hmmmm pretty complicated eh! That's why we are not front runners in politics because it's a whole bunch of lying and back stabbing etc

Gee whiz Cat. You keep asking for options. I have given the potential ones I see and asked for any others that may be viable. Problems? Well, yes. There are many details that would need to be worked out. I never said it would be easy. This Buffalo Declaration is actually a variation of the plan to follow qeeeebec's lead and get a lot more say in what happens in lil ol Alberta. I would have to say this would likely be my first choice and the best option all the way around. Once again, as I have already said, there is little chance it will go anywhere because Ottawa, supported by qeeeebec will never relinquish any power!

Reminds me of a line from a book I read. The statement came from an air force flight instructor. "When you are cruising Mach 1.5 at 500 feet and something goes south, DO SOMETHING! Even if it's wrong, do something, because you aren't going to get a second chance!" Our current situation may not be that dire, but in my view something sure has gone south and the sooner we make some kind of move to fix it the better.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by FishHunterPro

I wouldn’t be for it, more competition for jobs , fishing and hunting. It’s 330M people that if they really wanted could move here . Sounds terrible

Works both ways. Lots would leave Alberta for the south.... probably more so than come here. Unless freezing their arse off is in the cards........

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by zabbo

Gee whiz Cat. You keep asking for options. I have given the potential ones I see and asked for any others that may be viable. Problems? Well, yes. There are many details that would need to be worked out. I never said it would be easy. This Buffalo Declaration is actually a variation of the plan to follow qeeeebec's lead and get a lot more say in what happens in lil ol Alberta. I would have to say this would likely be my first choice and the best option all the way around. Once again, as I have already said, there is little chance it will go anywhere because Ottawa, supported by qeeeebec will never relinquish any power!

Reminds me of a line from a book I read. The statement came from an air force flight instructor. "When you are cruising Mach 1.5 at 500 feet and something goes south, DO SOMETHING! Even if it's wrong, do something, because you aren't going to get a second chance!" Our current situation may not be that dire, but in my view something sure has gone south and the sooner we make some kind of move to fix it the better.

agree...poop went south well before the turd got implemented into the show...started with a treaty signing which was good for the first 25 years but doesn't reflect societies requirements nowadays....then you throw in the bloc....I believe implemented in 1991....perhaps looked upon as a form of treason?

oh well the dance continues good for some and not for others....

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

agree...poop went south well before the turd got implemented into the show...started with a treaty signing which was good for the first 25 years but doesn't reflect societies requirements nowadays....then you throw in the bloc....I believe implemented in 1991....perhaps looked upon as a form of treason?

oh well the dance continues good for some and not for others....

SOOOOOO....still waiting for a solution.....you throw out a lot of what if's and maybe's but never an Idea ???....... I will wait.....

[Osky]

It's interesting to read the attitude here that patience prevails and people should hunker down and weather out the economy. Rash judgement should certainly be avoided but take a lesson from our recent history.
The economy is not some mystical thing that revolves around the sun or moon and just is what it is. That's what the previous administration here tried to force down our throats. Too many previous presidents had bowed down to vote seeking lawmakers with feel good regulations and overbearing taxation concepts along with money for nothing policies. We were told previously this was the new norm, those jobs weren't coming back.
Well those jobs have come back at lightening speed. It only took one guy who wasn't afraid to ruffle feathers, back off personal and business taxes, and mostly get rid of ridiculous government regulation and overlap.
It's really that simple to affect change. You folks have your version of obamah the worthless up there and I hope you can force a change in that. With things moving as well as they are here you should be reaping some of the upshot and then some.
I hope things work out so you keep your identity and your individualism. Learn from our recent history and don't get suckered by "progressives" who's only path is progressing us right back into caves.

Osky

[Talking moose]

Exactly....^

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

(my original answer)

Does it though?



There are a hundred things that our taxes go to, or is it a hundred thousand things?

Every time you say 'it evens out' you are talking about one single thing, in this case hypothetical costs for medicaire.

I say it does not even out.


After google search

The Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) believes Canada spent approximately $228 billion on health care in 2016. That's 11.1 per cent of Canada's entire GDP and $6,299 for every Canadian resident. That per capita rate would put Canada near the high end of what other advanced economies pay.Aug 2, 2017


Damn you guys are smart.

Isn't that more or less the figure that our friend from the US is paying? The insurance is around what we pay. Figure that major operations don't happen every day, or likely even every decade.

Plus we need to factor in the quality of care and wait times. You could be a relatively young cripple here, waiting for a back, hip, or knee surgery for years. I know you well enough that you wouldn't think twice about a paltry $6000 if it meant not being laid up for 4 years. An operation happening in 2 months would be a no-brainer.

[gunluvr]

If all we're gonna do is bring up the reasons we shouldn't exit Canada then we must think that staying here is acceptable. Maybe we're just spoiled whiners like easterners say. Put up, shut up, or get out. Choose.

[bsmitty27]

Health care systems
How many people in canada have had to sell their house and cash in retirement to pay for kids treatment. Oh, yea I guess the system to the south isn't that great, If luck turns against you for a day.

In all seriousness. I have family through the states. From extreme right wing to extreme left wing, extreamily wealthy to struggling blue collar.
I have seen a lot of struggle caused by health care, one realitive has a wife who has a condition that is not covered under his health care plan (Electrician). He is currently looking for any job he can get that has a medical plan that would cover his wife's condition. Last I heard he was applying to the local grocery store because the health benefits were very good. On the other end of the spectrum I have a brother in law who does very very well financially, but struggled at home with pneumonia for a week before going in because he don't want to pay the 1000.00 deductible.
Every time I go through montana every small town gas stanion has a donation jar for a family who is struggling to cover family medical expenses. Seems like a sad system.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

If all we're gonna do is bring up the reasons we shouldn't exit Canada then we must think that staying here is acceptable. Maybe we're just spoiled whiners like easterners say. Put up, shut up, or get out. Choose.

I have a hell of a lot invested here.

Why should I throw it all away because of something I have no control over?

I have never been a 'fine I'm taking my soccer ball and going home' guy.

Or are you saying that anyone that doesn't like what I am assuming, is your favorite idea of WEXIT or some other bs does not align with your way of thinking, is wrong and should shut up?

[Dewey Cox]

Well, it seems like healthcare is the main thing everyone can't get over.
If that's what people want, why shouldn't we have it in our state?
Even if we kept the same bloated, inefficient healthcare system, we would still be ahead by not paying for Quebec's daycare system. And everything else.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

Well, it seems like healthcare is the main thing everyone can't get over.
If that's what people want, why shouldn't we have it in our state?
Even if we kept the same bloated, inefficient healthcare system, we would still be ahead by not paying for Quebec's daycare system. And everything else.

Exactly, there is no reason that the state of Alberta could not have the same healthcare we have now. With the extra money we wouldn't be paying to Ottawa to give to Quebec or foreign countries, we would be able to afford it.

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I have a hell of a lot invested here.

Why should I throw it all away because of something I have no control over?

I have never been a 'fine I'm taking my soccer ball and going home' guy.

Or are you saying that anyone that doesn't like what I am assuming, is your favorite idea of WEXIT or some other bs does not align with your way of thinking, is wrong and should shut up?

How would leaving confederation "throw away" everything you have invested here?
I don't have a "favorite idea of Wexit". If there's something else better than the status quo, let's hear it.
"Put up, shut up, or get out" simply lists our options. Accept what we have, don't complain about what we have, or change/leave. J.Trudeau isn't going to change it for us. Or any other liberal government.
I don't fear change. Only where we're headed.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

How would leaving confederation "throw away" everything you have invested here?
I don't have a "favorite idea of Wexit". If there's something else better than the status quo, let's hear it.
"Put up, shut up, or get out" simply lists our options. Accept what we have, don't complain about what we have, or change/leave. J.Trudeau isn't going to change it for us. Or any other liberal government.
I don't fear change. Only where we're headed.

We can't leave confederation.

You know it, I do, everyone does except the clueless.


I agree with everything else you said though.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

We can't leave confederation.

You know it, I do, everyone does except the clueless.


I agree with everything else you said though.

Why can we not leave confederation???