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Old 02-15-2020, 09:22 PM
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Default Alberta as 51st US State

Good article, lots of valid points made, as well as a few skipped over. I'd personally be onboard, it beats the hell out of being indentured serfs, floating QC while they all want to block our resource development and kneecap us. Yep, would be way better. Confederation doesn't work for Alberta.


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Old 02-15-2020, 09:42 PM
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I like it , a big market for oil and agricultural products. Better access to a sea port. BC would never agree to separate and constantly block our way to a harbour
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:48 PM
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Thats a big nope for me. While I do find many of the USA's ideals align with mine, mainly 2nd amendment, right to self defense, responsibility for ones actions and the similar trends. I find their lack of support for publicly funded health care and education disgusting. In this day and age to feel ok with people being bankrupted because of a broken ankle is just downright barbaric. Taxes are a part of life, and I would rather pay a few percent more than have to worry about not getting an education or health care because I'm not rich enough. Also, perhaps selfishly, I would have to re-educate myself into a new job. Im a paramedic, I am not going from making a resonable wage in Canada, to making 12-15 an hour as an american medic. screw that.

Id support an independent Alberta, combining the best of the two ideals, but I couldn't support joining the US
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:50 PM
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I will gladly trade Canadian privileges for American rights.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:59 PM
Larry.S Larry.S is offline
 
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The goal should be to address the issues that are currently plaguing/undermining Canadian democracy. While I think the Senate should be abolished, the discrepancy in seats in the upper house between Alberta/B.C. vs Atlantic Canada is indicative of this. Canada has evolved since confederation, it’s time for our political systems to evolve as well...
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianPsycho View Post
Thats a big nope for me. While I do find many of the USA's ideals align with mine, mainly 2nd amendment, right to self defense, responsibility for ones actions and the similar trends. I find their lack of support for publicly funded health care and education disgusting. In this day and age to feel ok with people being bankrupted because of a broken ankle is just downright barbaric. Taxes are a part of life, and I would rather pay a few percent more than have to worry about not getting an education or health care because I'm not rich enough. Also, perhaps selfishly, I would have to re-educate myself into a new job. Im a paramedic, I am not going from making a resonable wage in Canada, to making 12-15 an hour as an american medic. screw that.

Id support an independent Alberta, combining the best of the two ideals, but I couldn't support joining the US
You need to double check where you’d be applying for as a paramedic. Even an EMT in my town of less than 1500 makes high 20s an hour. Another buddy who is a Paramedic in billings makes over 80k year. Much higher than 12-15$/ hr your touting...
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:07 PM
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I would trade canadian privilege for american rights and canadian socialism for american freedom every day of the week. Every way you look at it nothing is ever free including health care, anyone who thinks we receive free health care needs to pull their heads out of the sand. If your wise in the states and make sure your properly insured for medical it's not only less out of pocket compared to being taxed to death it's also way better medical service.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:13 PM
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OK. Then Crimea is Russia? Hmmm....
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianPsycho View Post
Thats a big nope for me. While I do find many of the USA's ideals align with mine, mainly 2nd amendment, right to self defense, responsibility for ones actions and the similar trends. I find their lack of support for publicly funded health care and education disgusting. In this day and age to feel ok with people being bankrupted because of a broken ankle is just downright barbaric. Taxes are a part of life, and I would rather pay a few percent more than have to worry about not getting an education or health care because I'm not rich enough. Also, perhaps selfishly, I would have to re-educate myself into a new job. Im a paramedic, I am not going from making a resonable wage in Canada, to making 12-15 an hour as an american medic. screw that.

Id support an independent Alberta, combining the best of the two ideals, but I couldn't support joining the US
You might make a bit less but cost of living is way less. I'd wager most paramedics have higher disposable income in the US compared to those in Canada.
I'm a carpenter I have relatives/close friends in the same trade in 4 different states and all of them make less than me / hr yet all of them are able to enjoy a higher standard of living because of cost to live in their area compared to here.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:23 PM
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Interesting article, thanks for posting.

I'd MUCH rather go it alone but realize that's almost impossible with us being land locked.

The thought of not sending one more dime to Ottawa really floats my boat though.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:25 PM
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I am 100 percent for it.
We'd have more autonomy as a state than as a province.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:47 PM
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Not a fan of Downing, but he makes valid points here. It has to happen, for Alberta to ever be anything but on her knees to a Confederation that uses and abuses her.

https://www.westernstandardonline.co...ence-movement/
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:51 PM
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I will gladly trade Canadian privileges for American rights.
Well then immigrate to the US. Problem solved for you.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:55 PM
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I have lived in both countries, and spend a third of my time in the US.

The health care thing is a BIG ISSUE.

I'm not sure people appreciate that here. You have no idea how many people I know who have been destroyed - their entire retirement savings, equity in their homes, etc... after one of them has fallen ill.

How about one of the kids falling ill .....???

That, to me, is a show stopper. That's why I'm here.

I had US permanent residency, still work in both countries will my job, and can live where I want, but I'm here.

The US remains to be the only first world civilized nation not to have public health care - and the reason is $$$$$ special interest groups, rich people's corruption. It's amazing to me.

But that's for another thread ...
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:56 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Proud to be an Albertan

and

Canadian.

While I can also see some things could use changing, the above do not need to.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:59 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Well then immigrate to the US. Problem solved for you.
X2
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:59 PM
CanadianPsycho CanadianPsycho is offline
 
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You might make a bit less but cost of living is way less. I'd wager most paramedics have higher disposable income in the US compared to those in Canada.
I'm a carpenter I have relatives/close friends in the same trade in 4 different states and all of them make less than me / hr yet all of them are able to enjoy a higher standard of living because of cost to live in their area compared to here.
Thats funny, I have friends in the states in the EMS industry, most of them work so much they have zero life, and up here, not even working full time and factoring in exchange rates I make significantly more than them. EMS in the states has an extremely short career timespan due to the disgustingly low pay, most transfer to nursing because they can afford to live doing that. The only way to make good money in EMS down there is an integrated fire service, they can work full time at one job and live. But id still make more up here, even with exchange
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:00 PM
CanadianPsycho CanadianPsycho is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fordtruckin View Post
You need to double check where you’d be applying for as a paramedic. Even an EMT in my town of less than 1500 makes high 20s an hour. Another buddy who is a Paramedic in billings makes over 80k year. Much higher than 12-15$/ hr your touting...
Id be curious to see the rates they are paying, as that is much higher than any place i've heard of down there, including integrated fire services.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I have lived in both countries, and spend a third of my time in the US.

The health care thing is a BIG ISSUE.

I'm not sure people appreciate that here. You have no idea how many people I know who have been destroyed - their entire retirement savings, equity in their homes, etc... after one of them has fallen ill.

How about one of the kids falling ill .....???

That, to me, is a show stopper. That's why I'm here.

I had US permanent residency, still work in both countries will my job, and can live where I want, but I'm here.

The US remains to be the only first world civilized nation not to have public health care - and the reason is $$$$$ special interest groups, rich people's corruption. It's amazing to me.

But that's for another thread ...
That is why I didn't proceed with getting my permanent residency there, as we are getting older the cost of insurance becomes very prohibitive and not an option.

But consider this: what would preclude Alberta from maintaining and vastly improving our current universal health care system, with the $20B a year that Confederation won't be sucking out of our veins. That's a lot of health care for 4 million people.
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:41 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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It warrants consideration, but if you have serious pre-existing medical conditions, it would be tough. That's the only real downside.

I'm pretty far right, but I believe that there needs to be a little more socialized medicine in the U.S. and a little less here.
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:49 AM
Bigjohn87 Bigjohn87 is offline
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Well then immigrate to the US. Problem solved for you.
We will leave eventually, and the sadder the day is for you the happier it will be for me.


Alberta first Canada second.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I have lived in both countries, and spend a third of my time in the US.

The health care thing is a BIG ISSUE.

I'm not sure people appreciate that here. You have no idea how many people I know who have been destroyed - their entire retirement savings, equity in their homes, etc... after one of them has fallen ill.

How about one of the kids falling ill .....???

That, to me, is a show stopper. That's why I'm here.

I had US permanent residency, still work in both countries will my job, and can live where I want, but I'm here.

The US remains to be the only first world civilized nation not to have public health care - and the reason is $$$$$ special interest groups, rich people's corruption. It's amazing to me.

But that's for another thread ...
This right here! And education is another biggy as well
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:19 AM
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We have an American doing some consulting work for us right now. He is loud, arrogant, absolutely loves Trump, openly bashes gays, and is in general a total POS. He makes the most right wing people here look like liberal pansies (which he loves say). There are many many more just like him. No thanks from me.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:37 AM
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We have an American doing some consulting work for us right now. He is loud, arrogant, absolutely loves Trump, openly bashes gays, and is in general a total POS. He makes the most right wing people here look like liberal pansies (which he loves say). There are many many more just like him. No thanks from me.
It's best to judge an entire country of 350 million based on the actions of one person...Can you imagine if Canadians were judged by the actions of sparkle socks?

ps, I spent a couple years working down there, and worked with quite a few americans up here. Some great people
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:57 AM
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The way things are getting, it's like we aren't considered to be a part of Canada, except when it comes to collecting taxes fro us. Another few years of Trudeau, and we would have nothing to lose by becoming the 51st state. We will be so broke, that we may still have free health care, but it may not be worth having.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:19 AM
LKP.80cal LKP.80cal is offline
 
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Join the USA as a territory of the USA but retain independence and dual citizenship.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:46 AM
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The article says we'd fit right in the middle between democrats and republicans. I've always seen conservative Albertans as much more aligned with republicans if anything and would mostly reject democrats as liberals.
We already pay big $$ for health care through taxation. If we joined the US the difference in cost of living, the value of the dollar, smaller tax burden and the end of transfer payments would allow us to afford private health care/insurance.Wages would no doubt be lower, or seem to be because of a stronger dollar.
Oil price would be more aligned with US price.The oil & gas industry would absolutely boom. Because of this US investment in other Alberta industries would follow. Coal fired generation would be alive and well. The pipelines going south would look like spaghetti on a map. Interstate highways and transmission lines too.
Most indigenous people might find the need to move to another province in order to reap benefits from Ottawa, which may be more generous than from Washington. Either that or get jobs? I think the latter would happen.
Seems to me the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages which is mostly based on sentimentality. National pride, patriotism is in the tank already.
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  #28  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:46 AM
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The biggest factor I can think of is healthcare. My wife is from Michigan, she was visiting last year. One of her cousins has a growth the size of a grapefruit in her abdomen but can't get it removed due to cost.

You'd think without sending all of the money East, we could have our own healthcare.

I don't think becoming a state is feasible but something needs to be done. I don't know what would work short of a full out coup.
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Old 02-16-2020, 08:00 AM
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Nope, we are good where we are at could be better but becoming any part of the USA would be worse but then again when the going gets tuff many just crumble and bail or look for excuses.....oh how hard we have it here
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Old 02-16-2020, 08:05 AM
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In my view, the current situation in Alberta just isn't working. We don't have a whole lot of options. Flat out separation seems to have far too many obstacles. Currency (zero international recognition), passports, police, military, no trade agreements and plenty more. We can't get oil to tidewater as part of Canada. Wouldn't have any hope as a separate country. Could try the same tactic quebec has been using for a long time. Distinct society, country within a country. Pretty much the only other option is join the states. Almost instantly the medical issue is brought up. Just remember, the system we have here is NOT free. We pay dearly for it through taxes! Lots of them. Alberta spends more than 40% of government revenues on medicare, way more per capita than any other province in the country. We also have some of the longest wait times. As far as two tier, we have always had that and maybe even three tier. Take Joe lunch bucket, wealthy business person and the turd. The turd has a sniffle and has a doctor at his home, office or hotel room in five minutes. Joe is diagnosed with cancer, waits 4 to 6 months for MRI and other diagnostics. Then they try to decide on treatment. Another 3 to 6 months wait time. You can read all about Joe in his obit. Wealthy business person is on a plane and in Mayo clinic, receiving treatment in 24 to 48 hours. If you are working in the US, there is a good chance you have medical coverage there. True, there are some boorish Americans. I've had the misfortune to meet a few Canadians that were just as bad or worse.

At this point, I'm personally very disillusioned with the state of affairs in this country and the more I see of the turd, the worse it gets.

MY $.02.
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