Accessing grazing lease - two questions

[Camdec]

I know this has been brought up before but looking for some advice. Scouting down south the last couple days in preparation for antelope hunt starting tomorrow. I’ve spoke To a few contacts with grazing leases for access, but have been trying another which comes with an automated message “unable to take your call” and no ability to leave a message.

1) Am I offside accessing the lease if no cattle are present?

2) Is there a specific distance from cattle you or your hunted animal must be?

Thanks for the replies

[Father of five]

Follow the conditions of the lease

If it says no conditions then hunt away
If it says no hunting when cattle are present then move on to the next area
If it says contact lease holder and you can’t get ahold of them you’ll have to move on to the next place you can get permission

[Talking moose]

http://aep.alberta.ca/about-us/conta...-contacts.aspx

[Talking moose]

I don’t know... ^ if that will help.

[Peebles]

The next step is to escalate it to the local settlement officer, not to hunt anyway. I think most people save time and move to the next lease. Here's the info to get started if you want:

http://aep.alberta.ca/recreation-pub...d/default.aspx

[Deer Hunter]

Go, and don't bother anything. You cannot be charged for trespassing on lease land.
https://justice.alberta.ca/programs_...zing_land.aspx

[Big Lou]

Maybe a house call is in order? Last fall I had great success with obtaining access. One lease holder I could not get on the phone and had left a couple messages. Stopped in at the ranch house and he said he hadn’t received any messages and was more than happy with me accessing.

I wouldn’t push it without contacting and try something outside of a phone call first. Might burn a bridge with a person who could be great and who also may have deeded land you might access as well. Possibly neighbours too. Just saying.

[Camdec]

Originally Posted by Big Lou

Maybe a house call is in order? Last fall I had great success with obtaining access. One lease holder I could not get on the phone and had left a couple messages. Stopped in at the ranch house and he said he hadn’t received any messages and was more than happy with me accessing.

I wouldn’t push it without contacting and try something outside of a phone call first. Might burn a bridge with a person who could be great and who also may have deeded land you might access as well. Possibly neighbours too. Just saying.

I agree Lou. Stopped at several houses regarding private land but tracking down the “lease contact” for said grazing lease hasn’t been quite as easy. I fully admit I should have been on the phone two weeks ago, but I’m also not phoning the morning of opening day. Generally the leasee contacts have been good...just trying to understand the rules as there is not a lot of grazing leases at home, just crown.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Go, and don't bother anything. You cannot be charged for trespassing on lease land.
https://justice.alberta.ca/programs_...zing_land.aspx

So you are advocating trespassing?

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

So you are advocating trespassing?

You can't trespass on crown lease land as a recreational user.
I'm advocating that you read the link I posted.

[hal53]

It states that you can't be prosecuted under the Trespass Act,,,but you can be proseuted under the Criminal Code of Canada

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by hal53

It states that you can't be prosecuted under the Trespass Act,,,but you can be proseuted under the Criminal Code of Canada

As long as you don't eat all the grass or get into a fight with someone, you likely will not be charged under the criminal code of Canada.

Section 430(1)(c) is engaged if it is alleged that the purported recreation user wilfully obstructed, interrupted or interfered with the lessee’s lawful use, enjoyment or operation of the Crown-leased land. As such, to support a prosecution under this subsection, there would have to be sufficient evidence that the person interfered with the lessee’s purpose in using the land (i.e., grazing livestock).

Sections 266, 267 or 268

Pursuant to s. 41(1), a lessee is entitled to use as much force as is necessary to evict a trespasser from the land. By virtue of s. 41(2), a trespasser who resists being removed may be prosecuted for assault or related conduct. Such resistance would not include passive resistance, but would include resistance by violence (e.g., by striking back).

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

You can't trespass on crown lease land as a recreational user.
I'm advocating that you read the link I posted.

Read again.....slowly this time

As such, any prosecution arising from a recreational user’s entry upon such lands may only be conducted pursuant to the Criminal Code of Canada. While the charging section(s) would depend upon the conduct alleged, the following sections are most commonly applicable.

Section 430(1)(c)

Section 430(1)(c) is engaged if it is alleged that the purported recreation user wilfully obstructed, interrupted or interfered with the lessee’s lawful use, enjoyment or operation of the Crown-leased land. As such, to support a prosecution under this subsection, there would have to be sufficient evidence that the person interfered with the lessee’s purpose in using the land (i.e., grazing livestock).

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

You can't trespass on crown lease land as a recreational user.
I'm advocating that you read the link I posted.

Guess it is that time of year you showed up again

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Guess it is that time of year you showed up again

Sorry to bother you with the law around crown grazing leases.

[Cowboy coffee]

Try the grazing reserves they are usually emptying by now. Make sure if you access lease land to get permission and stay away from landowners cows and horses. Lots of the ranchers worry about grass fires just like we worry about forest fire carry over. You should get lots of permission if you respect their wishes

[hal53]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Guess it is that time of year you showed up again

" Improving hunter/landowner relationships one leaseholder at a time"

[FinnDawg]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

As long as you don't eat all the grass or get into a fight with someone, you likely will not be charged under the criminal code of Canada.

This is saying that the person who owns the lease can get rid of you forcefully, and if you fight back YOU will be charged?

[sweld]

Originally Posted by Camdec

I agree Lou. Stopped at several houses regarding private land but tracking down the “lease contact” for said grazing lease hasn’t been quite as easy. I fully admit I should have been on the phone two weeks ago, but I’m also not phoning the morning of opening day. Generally the leasee contacts have been good...just trying to understand the rules as there is not a lot of grazing leases at home, just crown.

If u have iHunter u can buy the grazing lease maps. Tell u who and how to contact the lease holder as well as there conditions. If there cattle is off the lease I typically tell them I will be accessing the lease not asking permission and ask there conditions.


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[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by sweld

I typically tell them I will be accessing the lease not asking permission and ask there conditions.


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Good strategy. Makes him think you know the rules and don’t bother spinning up an excuse to deny entry.....( there are a few that would try and keep people out for reasons not on the up and up )

[Cowboy coffee]

Wow

[warriorboy10]

In my experience the best piece of advice is to go and visit the lease holder face to face. First of all it tells them your not afraid to ask and it shows them that your not hiding behind a phone and are upfront.
I have had several land owners not answer their phone because they can be getting inandated with calls for permission, they have told me this. I don’t go on their property until I get their permission but once I meet them in person I’d say eight times out of ten permission is granted and in most most instances by foot only. Which is the best way to go anyway.. Get out there and ask face to face!! Good luck..

[BCSteel]

Originally Posted by FinnDawg

This is saying that the person who owns the lease can get rid of you forcefully, and if you fight back YOU will be charged?

Yes, because while it might technically be public land the government supports private businesses on our land because it brings in direct revenue. Sportsmen are just getting in the way.

[FinnDawg]

Originally Posted by BCSteel

Yes, because while it might technically be public land the government supports private businesses on our land because it brings in direct revenue. Sportsmen are just getting in the way.

I wasn’t sure if I was reading it right... I don’t understand how deer hunter can say you can access the land whenever you want and even suggest it, and yet completely contradicts himself with that lol.

[270person]

The WMU's I hunt, north of the Yellowhead, we wait until the October end deadline for them to have their cattle off the land, then call. If the call goes unfavorably then we call the lease admin for the area and advise them of the issue. That usually takes care of that.

The leaseholder has to have some pretty special reasons for keeping people out, and usually they don't. Was told once..."we already gave some other hunters permission"...to which we replied..."well we'll keep an eye out for them and make sure they're being good boys then."

Respect the land, their gates, outbuildings, etc and there shouldn't be a problem. If they insist on not playing ball report them. They have to play by the rules as well.

[dustinjoels]

Contact the local land agent.

I ran into this situation last year when I was drawn for antelope. There was one leaseholder I couldn’t get ahold of. Turns out he’d unfortunately passed away in the spring and the websites hadn’t been updated with the new lease managers info. I was given the new contact info and voila. Not every situation is sinister.

[LJalberta]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Go, and don't bother anything. You cannot be charged for trespassing on lease land.
https://justice.alberta.ca/programs_...zing_land.aspx

Deer Hunter's not wrong. And you're not going to get prosecuted under the criminal code if you were on leased land for the purpose of hunting. That's not a reality. However, I would not personally take that route. As others have suggested, call the lease admin and get the ball rolling on the situation.

[Cowboy coffee]

The biggest issue is rolling into the countryside and thinking that you own the place.Doesn’t work that way in your backyards think that it doesn’t work that way on a ranch. Blood,sweat,and tears equate to proper asking and respectful dialogue.

[BCSteel]

Originally Posted by Cowboy coffee

The biggest issue is rolling into the countryside and thinking that you own the place.Doesn’t work that way in your backyards think that it doesn’t work that way on a ranch. Blood,sweat,and tears equate to proper asking and respectful dialogue.

Cool story but the fact is, the public DOES own the land, it is the private company that is profiting off of public land that should be grateful THEY have the opportunity to do so. If a lease holder wants to deny access to property they can always buy their own land and deny who ever they want for no reason at all.

While it's obvious that most lease holders are pretty good to deal with the ones who consistently feel entitled to the land and purposely ignore or deny request to access for no good reason should be fined and have their leases pulled. It is a privilege to use public land to run a private business and should be treated as such.

[BCSteel]

Originally Posted by FinnDawg

I wasn’t sure if I was reading it right... I don’t understand how deer hunter can say you can access the land whenever you want and even suggest it, and yet completely contradicts himself with that lol.

We'll maybe if deer hunter wrote it you'd have a point. But now your just trying to discredit someone's opinion you don't like by saying this is a duplicate account. Classic move for a bot.