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  #31  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tri777 View Post
This gets me wondering, if the contractor quoted
canuckistanian via a text response, would that suffice as a contract?
Absolutely as long as there are no extras the contractor can prove
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  #32  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:14 PM
ghfalls ghfalls is offline
 
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The lesson that should be learned here is don’t hire children to do a mans job. I hope it wasn’t a big garage.
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  #33  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:23 PM
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I my experience a 24 x 24 garage should take 25 man hours that works out to 75 dollars an hour.
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  #34  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
Is this one of those famous under the table deals?
He did say he received an invoice . More than likely no!
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  #35  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:28 PM
Travco1 Travco1 is offline
 
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I am a contractor myself . If he said $1800 it should be $1800 . If something else comes up he is obligated to let you know ahead of time . Hiring a crane is easier and takes less time , so too his advantage . I would stick too my guns and not pay a dime till 100 percent complete as he will walk . I have seen this a thousand times . Guys like him lowball to get the work and then try too suck more money out of you .
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  #36  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:34 PM
Weedy1 Weedy1 is offline
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Ask for his business license, insurance and WCB. See if he comes back, and if he doesn't I just saved you $1800. I will want half for a consulting fee.
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  #37  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
Absolutely as long as there are no extras the contractor can prove
Excellent!
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  #38  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wildwoods View Post
What size was the garage? Roof pitch? Wall height? Any extras?
My company frames hundreds of houses and garages annually. Don’t be worried about the lien. You can simply remove it by paying it into the courts. Before doing that, the lien will expire in 180 days if he does not file for loss pending. It would be a waste of his time to lien. You hold all the cards. If $1800 was agreed on I wouldn’t pay a single penny more. Liens are next to useless under around $10k if ou know how the system works. Pm if you wanna chat further.
I spent 15 years in the constructed business. This is absolutely correct, I wouldn't worry about the lien unless you plan on selling in the next few months and I wouldn't pay him a cent more than he quoted.
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  #39  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:45 PM
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I think you should mention canada revenue agency vs cash deals if he wants to start talking about a lien. This may be the classic "low ball to get the job then jack up the price" scenario. Before any more work is done I'd have a neutral third party contractor/inspector come take a look at the work that's already been done. You may end up kindly asking him to leave your property with $0 payment and a possible court case to cover the damages he caused.

Or he gets his $1800 and learns a valuable lesson on quoting jobs.
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  #40  
Old 12-11-2018, 11:06 PM
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I always submit written quotes for jobs and that is exactly what my invoice says at the end of the job. If I get a customer that is not so good with paper I will down load a contract template off of lawdepot.ca fill it out and make two copies.
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  #41  
Old 12-11-2018, 11:27 PM
warriorboy10 warriorboy10 is offline
 
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Both parties are equally responsible for the cluster. Cut the guy some slack and split the cost of the labour. As far as the crane goes, that’s on the contractor.. Have a solid face to face. Good luck!!
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  #42  
Old 12-12-2018, 05:34 AM
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Verbal, yup, verbal now it's all about what WAS said and here we only get one side of what might have been said......jeepers....peoplekind.
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  #43  
Old 12-12-2018, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expedition View Post
I my experience a 24 x 24 garage should take 25 man hours that works out to 75 dollars an hour.
And a picker shouldn't be required.

Grizz
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  #44  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:00 AM
ren008 ren008 is offline
 
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I'd probably offer to meet him halfway on the extra labor portion say $325, and tell him to pound sand on the picker.

Next time.... get a written quote!
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  #45  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
And a picker shouldn't be required.

Grizz
Exactly
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  #46  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:10 PM
canuckistanian canuckistanian is offline
 
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He does have insurance and WCB coverage and is a registered contractor with the city of Calgary. He happens to be one of my neighbors and offered to do the framing since he's a journeyman carpenter and is trying to build up a new business. I should have trusted my gut at the beginning and not used him but figured there wasn't much to go wrong since its just a basic garage build. Overall quality looks really good from his end but I will wait until the building inspection is completed to give him full payment.

We discussed the labour cost on at least 2 occasions prior to commencing work and we both agreed on the $1800. What killed him on labour was he took 5 and a half days and had his framing buddy helping the whole time. He originally told me it would take about 3 days and he was only going to get help putting up the trusses.

Last edited by canuckistanian; 12-12-2018 at 12:16 PM.
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  #47  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:18 PM
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If he's a neighbour I'd hold my nose and pay.
I think there is value there.
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  #48  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckistanian View Post
He does have insurance and WCB coverage and is a registered contractor with the city of Calgary. He happens to be one of my neighbors and offered to do the framing since he's a journeyman carpenter and is trying to build up a new business. I should have trusted my gut at the beginning and not used him but figured there wasn't much to go wrong since its just a basic garage build. Overall quality looks really good from his end but I will wait until the building inspection is completed to give him full payment.

We discussed the labour cost on at least 2 occasions prior to commencing work and we both agreed on the $1800. What killed him on labour was he took 5 and a half days and had his framing buddy helping the whole time. He originally told me it would take about 3 days and he was only going to get help putting up the trusses.
Sometimes keeping peace in the neighborhood is worth more than a couple hundred bucks. I would pay what you agreed. If you pay more I would emphasize it's not out of DUTY at all. He should be held accountable to his number. 5 days on a detached garage is incredibly excessive. I would start questioning quality and experience at that point.
What's done is done.
Check to make sure your man door is installed without rubbing, your exterior walls corners are nailed x2 nails every 16", your exterior sheeting is stapled correctly(bang every sheet with a hammer from the inside to check this), your bottom plate (should be pressure treated) is anchor bolted down, roof vents cut prior to shingling and your overhead door is sized correctly before payment. The city won't check those things (with exception to bolts...)
Send pics to me if you want a second opinion. PM for email address...
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  #49  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:38 PM
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If hes really worried about his new business he would eat the cost rather than risk loosing future business. File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Even if nothing comes from it a black mark from them will cost him a lot more than eating the cost of your job so he will likely want to resolve the situation quickly. If the garage fails the inspection make sure you include that in your complaint. Those complaints can be viewed online for everyone to see.

Next time do your research on your contractor, the cheapest quote is usually not the best option. He's not in Calgary but Scott from Willowtrail contracting is very good an honest to deal with in the Edmonton area.
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  #50  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckistanian View Post
He does have insurance and WCB coverage and is a registered contractor with the city of Calgary. He happens to be one of my neighbors and offered to do the framing since he's a journeyman carpenter and is trying to build up a new business. I should have trusted my gut at the beginning and not used him but figured there wasn't much to go wrong since its just a basic garage build. Overall quality looks really good from his end but I will wait until the building inspection is completed to give him full payment.

We discussed the labour cost on at least 2 occasions prior to commencing work and we both agreed on the $1800. What killed him on labour was he took 5 and a half days and had his framing buddy helping the whole time. He originally told me it would take about 3 days and he was only going to get help putting up the trusses.
You got a neighbor to do the work without a written contract. All you have is a text or two that doesn't really cover the specifics. I don't mean to be uncharitable but you made your own mess.

A lien is not a concern. Unless you plan to sell in the next 6 months it will never last long enough for you to have to pay on it because he will never renew it as often as he has to. No one can tell you what the right answer is. Work it out with the contractor and do what your gut tells you is the right thing.

At least this one isn't a huge cost for the lesson. Try not to repeat these mistakes in the future. Best of luck!
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  #51  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:10 PM
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I'd always advise against having a neighbour fo work for you as there will most likely always be issues and tension between you.

I had a friend bug me for months to paint my new flares for my silverado. I kept saying no because of the quality of work that comes out of that shop. Well one day I finally caved. So I hadn't had time to instal the flares yet and they're already peeling. Now I had bought the materials so I'm out that money. Plus more materials to strip these flares down. Then more materials again to refinish them properly. So in the end I'm out hundreds and if I mention anything I'll be the *****h@le.

Lesson learned!
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  #52  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckistanian View Post
I'm currently getting a detached garage built and just received the invoice last night for the work done which only covers framing and sheathing.

Everything has been verbal for this job, no written contract. The contractor said the total labour cost would be $1800, the invoice I received has it listed at $2455 plus an additional $320 for a picker truck for lifting the roof up. I'm considering the $320 under labour since he had told me 3 weeks ago he was just going to get one of his workers to help lift the trusses up by hand and there was never any mention of a crane being used or additional costs. I think it's quite ridiculous for him to expect me to pay over 50% extra on labour and really just want to pay him what we had agreed on before this project began and tell him to go urinate up a rope. I'm just curious at this point if he has any ground to stand on as far as putting a lien on my title or if he tries to take me to court? He isn't even denying our prior agreement but he just keeps saying it was a lot bigger project then he anticipated. I just don't get it, if I tell someone I'm going to weld them up a fire pit for $300 and it takes me 3 times longer then I estimated I'm going to eat that cost because it was my mistake.

On a side note does anyone here do roofing for a living or can recommend someone in Calgary?

Thanks
For roofing
4mcewen4@gmail.com

For the rest
If he quoted you $1800, then that is that. If you had in writing you would have a much stronger case but you can also remind him that his reputation may, or may not I guess, be worth a heck of a lot more than the increased charge. There’s lots of guys framing garages and reputation and word of mouth mean a lot more than you think. That said, $1800 is pretty cheap for framing up any decent sized garage. Did you change the size of the garage or any other specs (windows, extra doors, etc.) after the quote? Unless your building a two story garage a picker truck is pretty unnecessary for the roof trusses imo. 5 days to frame a garage is ridiculous, it should take 5-8 hours for 3 guys.
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  #53  
Old 12-12-2018, 02:07 PM
canuckistanian canuckistanian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatlandliver View Post
For roofing
4mcewen4@gmail.com

For the rest
If he quoted you $1800, then that is that. If you had in writing you would have a much stronger case but you can also remind him that his reputation may, or may not I guess, be worth a heck of a lot more than the increased charge. There’s lots of guys framing garages and reputation and word of mouth mean a lot more than you think. That said, $1800 is pretty cheap for framing up any decent sized garage. Did you change the size of the garage or any other specs (windows, extra doors, etc.) after the quote? Unless your building a two story garage a picker truck is pretty unnecessary for the roof trusses imo. 5 days to frame a garage is ridiculous, it should take 5-8 hours for 3 guys.
I knew from the start that hiring a neighbor could be a recipe for disaster but went against my own better judgement. Lesson learned there. He was really eager to build it though and wanted the project to build up his name so I agreed.

Nothing changed as far as Windows or doors, I just asked for the rough framing and said I would install the man door and window and have an overhead door company to come in for that portion. It's been up for over a week now and two sides still don't even have tyvek on them yet either. Not really a great way to make a name for yourself invoicing labour 50% over budget and invoicing before his work is even completed. Like i said he isn't denying what we agreed on before, he acknowledges he said it would be 1800 but it just took him a lot longer then he had anticipated. I'll see what I can work out with him as far as numbers go and like I said, I've learned a valuable lesson that a mans word doesn't mean much in this day and age.
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  #54  
Old 12-12-2018, 02:35 PM
Weedy1 Weedy1 is offline
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Originally Posted by canuckistanian View Post
I knew from the start that hiring a neighbor could be a recipe for disaster but went against my own better judgement. Lesson learned there. He was really eager to build it though and wanted the project to build up his name so I agreed.

Nothing changed as far as Windows or doors, I just asked for the rough framing and said I would install the man door and window and have an overhead door company to come in for that portion. It's been up for over a week now and two sides still don't even have tyvek on them yet either. Not really a great way to make a name for yourself invoicing labour 50% over budget and invoicing before his work is even completed. Like i said he isn't denying what we agreed on before, he acknowledges he said it would be 1800 but it just took him a lot longer then he had anticipated. I'll see what I can work out with him as far as numbers go and like I said, I've learned a valuable lesson that a mans word doesn't mean much in this day and age.
My thoughts are he was really eager to build it so he can use your garage as an example without having to drive too far to meet prospective clients. Charge him if he ever wants to show it.
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  #55  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:01 PM
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Ken07AOVette Ken07AOVette is offline
 
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It is not and will never be your fault because he took longer to do the work than anticipated. If this is the way he's going to run his business he will not last very long because people will not put up with it and neither should you.
I am not a journeyman carpenter but I framed a 40 x 50 by 12 foot shop and sheathed it in 2 days. Hes looking for easy cash and playing the tough guy. Get a stapler put up the Tyvek and tell him to get wrecked.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #56  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:02 PM
Johnny Huntnfish Johnny Huntnfish is offline
 
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I would simply ask him why he didn't clear the picker truck and extra labour with me beforehand. He had to call and order the picker and at some point he must have realized he was taking too long......at both of those moments he should have picked up the phone and got your approval for extra costs....ask him why he didn't call even though he new beforehand.
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  #57  
Old 12-12-2018, 06:18 PM
operator john operator john is offline
 
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Like others have stated, get it in writing.

Pay the extra $1000 and demand a receipt for the full amount.
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  #58  
Old 12-13-2018, 08:47 AM
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Yeah it’s a bit of a schmoozle.
You thought it was a lump sum price because that is less risk for the you, he thought it was time and material which is less risk from him.

If all the prices came back and total cost was $800, would you have said he was ripping you off and you don’t think you should pay $1800? Probably.

He sounds like he is being calm, just talk with him, go thru the numbers and rates and how he came up with his bill and try to come up with an agreeable solution.
If he did a great job, you’ll forget all about the little extra when the job is done, and he will give you a great deal on the next job.
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  #59  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:53 PM
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Tell him to kick stones. When I take a job and labour is more than I thought well too bad for me. When it's less too bad for you. I framed a 26 x 28 9' high sheathed it in a day and a half. with my 72 year old Dad and my 12 year old son. If it took him 5 days buddy should put the Timmies down.... If he's a neighbor this is a valuable lesson that didn't cost him too much.
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He didn't say anything about cleaning the garage and cutting the grass....
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  #60  
Old 12-13-2018, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
It is not and will never be your fault because he took longer to do the work than anticipated. If this is the way he's going to run his business he will not last very long because people will not put up with it and neither should you.
I am not a journeyman carpenter but I framed a 40 x 50 by 12 foot shop and sheathed it in 2 days. Hes looking for easy cash and playing the tough guy. Get a stapler put up the Tyvek and tell him to get wrecked.
50x40x12 in 2 days by yourself? You are in the wrong business.
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