Killing wolves works

[calgarychef]

I guess the idea of killing off all the moose in a region to save caribou has finally been put to bed. Imagine that the natives and Outdoorsmen were actually correct, killing wolves saves ungulates.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...e7963c9&ei=143

[Sooner]

Agree.

I am friends with a trapper who's line is in Caribou country. He told me of a wolf cull program(no poison) that's been pretty effective the last few years and along with the help of trappers etc, there is a slight gain in all ungulate populations a few years after the culls began. That's good to hear. I have hunted near the south Bou range and there were lots of wolf packs back then. Noticeable moose decline due to a few factors but wolves were a big part.

Add to that, the non producing gas field infrastructure has been pulled out, its back to wild spaces. And it won't be too long and all the cut/pipe lines will eventually start to grow over. Sounds like a win.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Well in is about time for biologists to realize that wolves eat our caribou. If you have high wolf population then caribou will not survive.

[Dubz337]

Any of the caribou herds in AB or BC are extant remains from the last ice age, and should be allowed to die out. It happens all the time in nature, animal can't adapt they die out. Killing all the wolves is not the answer, cause then prey populations explode, and they all eventually die out from starvation.

[urban rednek]

I'm shocked there is a group of government sponsored biologists that can grasp and acknowledge the correlation between a (cute & fuzzy) predator species and their prey. That's not a Disney approved belief.

Here's hoping this revelation is contagious within their discipline.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by Dubz337

Any of the caribou herds in AB or BC are extant remains from the last ice age, and should be allowed to die out. It happens all the time in nature, animal can't adapt they die out. Killing all the wolves is not the answer, cause then prey populations explode, and they all eventually die out from starvation.

Pretty sure moose and caribou populations aren't at risk of exploding any time soon.

[7magtime]

It took a long time but I'm glad to see it's finally being acknowledged that wolf populations are too high and need to be reduced.

Next, reopen the grizzly hunt as well to get numbers back in check.....

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Dubz337

Any of the caribou herds in AB or BC are extant remains from the last ice age, and should be allowed to die out. It happens all the time in nature, animal can't adapt they die out. Killing all the wolves is not the answer, cause then prey populations explode, and they all eventually die out from starvation.

Where did you learn this insight?

Should we have let extant populations of deer, antelope, moose and elk go extinct in the early 1900's?

[Drewski Canuck]

Helicopter reduction program has been flying out of McKinnon Outdoors Lodge at Calling Lake for about 7 years now. They go as far north as Wood Buffalo, so they have to have a refuel site up there somewhere.

They are able to go onto Cold Lake Air Weapons Range with alot of red tape, and are working on those wolves as well to protect some of the Caribou on the Range. East and West of Calling there are alot fewer wolves and game numbers are getting a bit of a recovery.

Overall the poison bait sites seemed to be best but to much collateral loss for some tastes. Average stretch of highway in Northern Alberta results in far more collateral loss, but the Politicians let us still drive the roads, so far.

No reason why the bait sites should not be used in my opinion. We kill way more critters on the roads than ever died on a bait site by accident. No one will tell me that getting maimed by a truck is any less painful than a poison bait causing death.

The reality is that baits are way more effective at removing roving packs of wolves that enter a territory from which the resident pack has been removed.
It is also completely effective whereas the helicopter crew can never know that they got all of the wolves in a pack.

Drewski

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Helicopter reduction program has been flying out of McKinnon Outdoors Lodge at Calling Lake for about 7 years now. They go as far north as Wood Buffalo, so they have to have a refuel site up there somewhere.

They are able to go onto Cold Lake Air Weapons Range with alot of red tape, and are working on those wolves as well to protect some of the Caribou on the Range. East and West of Calling there are alot fewer wolves and game numbers are getting a bit of a recovery.

Overall the poison bait sites seemed to be best but to much collateral loss for some tastes. Average stretch of highway in Northern Alberta results in far more collateral loss, but the Politicians let us still drive the roads, so far.

No reason why the bait sites should not be used in my opinion. We kill way more critters on the roads than ever died on a bait site by accident. No one will tell me that getting maimed by a truck is any less painful than a poison bait causing death.

The reality is that baits are way more effective at removing roving packs of wolves that enter a territory from which the resident pack has been removed.
It is also completely effective whereas the helicopter crew can never know that they got all of the wolves in a pack.

Drewski

That logic makes absolutely no sense. There may be an argument for poisoning but because we accidently kill animals on the high way we should indiscriminately poison most every hungry predator or scavenger in a given area is a stretch.

The vast majority of animals killed on the high way are ungulates. One might argue due to a lack of natural predators.

Way too many wolves in the areas I hunt and I would love to see a reduction. IMO snaring a bait site would give better control. You might not get them all but I don't think there is a "taste" for killing all wolves.

The survivors would leave a dangerous area making it safer for ungulates and the ungulate population can certainly tolerate some natural predation. The right amount of predation culls the weak, old, sick and stupid strengthening the the herd overall.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Trappers are taking out good numbers of wolves in primary caribou recovery areas in Alberta.

[-JR-]

I 've been hunting moose for 30 years in the same area they have the main caribou study location set up in . Normally we set up camp just a few mile from their trailers. We normally had our moose down by noon on opening day until they started handing out tags to every one that wanted a moose. Just did not make sense. If you kill all the moose ,they only got the caribou to freed on !
All the caribou we did see were tame just like cattle . One time when traveling out in our trucks a heard of 8 were feeding in the ditch and we drove beside them and even stopped and got out and took pictures . Not scared at all !
Years later they introduced the big wolf cull with helicopters in our area .
But they did not wipe them out until they introduced poison. The following year we did not even see a crow in the area . Just logging trucks .
I'm done with moose hunting ,not waiting 7 years now to get a tag to hunt in an area where they are shot out . Just sold my quad .

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Dubz337

Any of the caribou herds in AB or BC are extant remains from the last ice age, and should be allowed to die out. It happens all the time in nature, animal can't adapt they die out. Killing all the wolves is not the answer, cause then prey populations explode, and they all eventually die out from starvation.

The bad news is we're fixated that Nature should remain static, that's not acceptable to people.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Dubz337

Any of the caribou herds in AB or BC are extant remains from the last ice age, and should be allowed to die out. It happens all the time in nature, animal can't adapt they die out. Killing all the wolves is not the answer, cause then prey populations explode, and they all eventually die out from starvation.

I think this is 100% false and there were probably more caribou in AB and BC than whitetail deer in 1900. It's our (industry's) fault that the wolf population has been able to easily access and kill the caribou so I think it is also our responsibility to remove some wolves and allow the caribou herds to thrive.

As for the ungulates overpopulating to the point of starvation, I think that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard on this forum. Waiting 10 years for a moose, mule deer buck or antelope tag tells me that we have plenty of hunters willing to take out any surplus critters and if we can't find hunters, just lay off the wolves for a few years and they'll have the same effect on the ungulates here as they've had in Yellowstone.

[Drewski Canuck]

Originally Posted by MK2750

That logic makes absolutely no sense. There may be an argument for poisoning but because we accidently kill animals on the high way we should indiscriminately poison most every hungry predator or scavenger in a given area is a stretch.

The vast majority of animals killed on the high way are ungulates. One might argue due to a lack of natural predators.

Way too many wolves in the areas I hunt and I would love to see a reduction. IMO snaring a bait site would give better control. You might not get them all but I don't think there is a "taste" for killing all wolves.

The survivors would leave a dangerous area making it safer for ungulates and the ungulate population can certainly tolerate some natural predation. The right amount of predation culls the weak, old, sick and stupid strengthening the the herd overall.

Snaring has bi catch as well. Sometimes even Cariboo calves!

Trouble with not getting all the wolves in a pack by attempting snaring, is that you can end up with two alpha males from the remaining wolves and end up with two packs in the future. Nothing solved by that!

Accept that there will be co morbidity, and remove the bait or burn it when the wolves have been eliminated and before the bears emerge from their dens. Ugly truth about the job that needs to be done and the sooner the wolf numbers are reduced the better. Don't be squeamish and accept why it is necessary.

Alternative is to let the Feds declare an endangered species in Alberta, then they have jurisdiction to close all logging, oil and gas, and even road networks in the name of preserving the Caribou. Do you want that instead???

Drewski

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Snaring has bi catch as well. Sometimes even Cariboo calves!

Trouble with not getting all the wolves in a pack by attempting snaring, is that you can end up with two alpha males from the remaining wolves and end up with two packs in the future. Nothing solved by that!

Accept that there will be co morbidity, and remove the bait or burn it when the wolves have been eliminated and before the bears emerge from their dens. Ugly truth about the job that needs to be done and the sooner the wolf numbers are reduced the better. Don't be squeamish and accept why it is necessary.

Alternative is to let the Feds declare an endangered species in Alberta, then they have jurisdiction to close all logging, oil and gas, and even road networks in the name of preserving the Caribou. Do you want that instead???

Drewski

I don't believe it is that black and white. I am not squeamish, I just don't think indiscriminate poisoning is the right choice.

[bluetick]

Originally Posted by Dubz337

Any of the caribou herds in AB or BC are extant remains from the last ice age, and should be allowed to die out. It happens all the time in nature, animal can't adapt they die out. Killing all the wolves is not the answer, cause then prey populations explode, and they all eventually die out from starvation.

I'm pretty sure that is what trapping and hunting is for , conservation and regulating the population on both .
Not as many trappers controlling predator numbers because of low fur pricing .
If we control the predator ,the ungulate numbers rise allowing for more food on our tables and less of the draw system BS.
There's no starving in the wilderness !!!!