Alberta Draws and wait times

[littlered]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

The raffles used to always sell out
Sure AFGA is a joke and shouldn’t be in charge of the ministers tags
If this was open to non resident it would be sold out the first day

The sheep raffle particularly sold out when the first caller on the phone could buy all 8000 tickets for 10 bucks when the tag was selling for big prices. The 80 000 for all the tickets was abused by the wealthy and was a cheap way to get the tag. It doesn't sell out like that as often due to the fact they have increased ticket numbers so it isnt dirt cheap to buy them all. They have also limited the amount a person can buy per day. Both changes designed to provide opportunity to the regular joe. Don't look at it not selling out as a bad thing, because it has more to do with the fact that one person can't basically buy all the tickets/ the tag.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

The ministers raffle tag allows the winner to have the same opportunity as someone that spends 235k usd on a hunt
You can’t get much better than that from a $20 ticket

As for the money
It should be going back towards the resource
Sheep elk and mule deer
But it doesn’t
Which is a shame

Where are you getting this idea? You are wrong. Are you at all familiar with the process used for managing and distributing the funds raised from the raffles/auctions? Guessing not. I am. I was directly involved for a number of years, and sat on the stakeholder committee responsible for $$ allocation a couple times, so I can definitively say that you are completely wrong. With the exception of administrative costs, every dollar raised goes back into the resource, and further to that, dollars raised from the specific species raffle/auction go directly into projects aimed directly at that species. ie. mule deer raffle/auction funds are only spent on mule deer related initiatives. I could explain the process in detail, but I doubt you'd listen. You've already made up your mind based on bad information, rumors and nonsense.

You need to quit publicly slandering these volunteer organizations. Or at least get your facts straight before you do.

[sir_charlie]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Threads like this one and the mule deer allocation thread show why hunters are in the position we are in

Why should the government put any effort into changes when it seems like most are too busy thinking of number one instead of compromises that would keep all user groups into consideration. As for the draw system you can’t complain about wait times and refuse to loose priority to change the system. Also seems like most are not willing to invest into the resource we all use and watch things dwindle to save enough for a beer night

Nothing will change till with the present mind set

This also causes many good and valuable people to be deterred from becoming involved with the politics to make change for hunting and conservation.

This will likely fall on deaf ears

100%

Habitat loss, CWD, other factors impacting wildlife numbers are the issues we should be arguing about how to resolve so opportunity can increase for all.

Instead we focus on when is my next opportunity and why does he get to go before me.


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[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by sir_charlie

100%

Habitat loss, CWD, other factors impacting wildlife numbers are the issues we should be arguing about how to resolve so opportunity can increase for all.

Instead we focus on when is my next opportunity and why does he get to go before me.


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This issues you mentioned are important and impact all parties

The problems in theses threads still need to be addressed but it needs to be done in a manner that respects the fact all user groups bring value to the table. But most seem to view others as nothing but competition

Small issues need to be addressed with reasonable compromise before you will see change on big issues. Theses distractions prevent big issues from being addressed because the voice of the hunting community is divided and too busy trying to get a leg up on each other

Right now the hunting community looks like nothing but bickering children when it comes to pressuring government on big issues

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Where are you getting this idea? You are wrong. Are you at all familiar with the process used for managing and distributing the funds raised from the raffles/auctions? Guessing not. I am. I was directly involved for a number of years, and sat on the stakeholder committee responsible for $$ allocation a couple times, so I can definitively say that you are completely wrong. With the exception of administrative costs, every dollar raised goes back into the resource, and further to that, dollars raised from the specific species raffle/auction go directly into projects aimed directly at that species. ie. mule deer raffle/auction funds are only spent on mule deer related initiatives. I could explain the process in detail, but I doubt you'd listen. You've already made up your mind based on bad information, rumors and nonsense.

You need to quit publicly slandering these volunteer organizations. Or at least get your facts straight before you do.

What initiatives have been done?
The only thing that can be found recently, from any search is TJ antelope corridor and youth camps?
From when the ministers tags were create til today
Everyone of the species has a lower population and trophy quality
Both AFGA and WSFAB have next to zero voice
And contrary to what you think, there is people that want to help
But they need a to know they are supporting the right cause

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by littlered

The sheep raffle particularly sold out when the first caller on the phone could buy all 8000 tickets for 10 bucks when the tag was selling for big prices. The 80 000 for all the tickets was abused by the wealthy and was a cheap way to get the tag. It doesn't sell out like that as often due to the fact they have increased ticket numbers so it isnt dirt cheap to buy them all. They have also limited the amount a person can buy per day. Both changes designed to provide opportunity to the regular joe. Don't look at it not selling out as a bad thing, because it has more to do with the fact that one person can't basically buy all the tickets/ the tag.

At the time of the draw I think I had 1/4 off all the sheep tickets purchased in my hands
That’s embarrassing

What id like to know is who the heck is from iron river that keeps buying the elk tag. That guy needs an applause for his contributions

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

At the time of the draw I think I had 1/4 off all the sheep tickets purchased in my hands
That’s embarrassing

What id like to know is who the heck is from iron river that keeps buying the elk tag. That guy needs an applause for his contributions

Ok I have not purchased a ticket, I don’t even know where to get a ticket and don’t even know when it is done but honestly I have not looked into the draw either

What I can say is the advertisement of the draw sucks and I bet a lot of guys like myself hear very little about it or don’t even know it exists.

That is probably a good portion of the lack of people taking part.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Ok I have not purchased a ticket, I don’t even know where to get a ticket and don’t even know when it is done but honestly I have not looked into the draw either

What I can say is the advertisement of the draw sucks and I bet a lot of guys like myself hear very little about it or don’t even know it exists.

That is probably a good portion of the lack of people taking part.

100%
That’s part of my beef
Why should afga be the stewards of this valuable asset if they don’t do anything to promote it. And they don’t do anything constructive with the proceeds?
Wssbc gets almost double from a desert bighorn raffle than alberta does from the ministers tag

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by hilt134

Fair enough.

Other than that let it buck I guess. If you want to hunt a turkey in Alberta just hope you don’t die in the next decade.

And when it comes right down to it the people that build their priorities to well above what is required to draw don't increas wait times, they reduce them. I had my antlered mule priority up to P13 one time because I was spending more time on sheep and elk for several years. I could have drawn at least two tags if I didn't use the 999 option at the time ,which is two tags other people drew instead of me. If 10% of applicants choose priority only, you are only competing with the other 90% for your tags. If half of those people decide to use their priority every year, you are still only competing with 95% of applicants. There is no way that less people competing with you can decrease your odds of drawing.
As for draws like 437 sheep, canceling the priority option won't reduce the wait times, it already would take longer than a lifetime, if you started applying now.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

What initiatives have been done?
The only thing that can be found recently, from any search is TJ antelope corridor and youth camps?
From when the ministers tags were create til today
Everyone of the species has a lower population and trophy quality
Both AFGA and WSFAB have next to zero voice
And contrary to what you think, there is people that want to help
But they need a to know they are supporting the right cause

Well then you're not looking hard enough, or you just don't know where to look. Try going a little deeper than just typing msl into google.

Hilarious that in this post you're complaining that nothing significant has been done funds raised with this program (not true), and that people "need a to know they are supporting the right cause", and in the very next post you're telling us that you bought 25% of the sheep tickets that were sold. Seems a tad hypocritical? Not hard to see what you're all about lol.

[sir_charlie]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

This issues you mentioned are important and impact all parties

The problems in theses threads still need to be addressed but it needs to be done in a manner that respects the fact all user groups bring value to the table. But most seem to view others as nothing but competition

Small issues need to be addressed with reasonable compromise before you will see change on big issues. Theses distractions prevent big issues from being addressed because the voice of the hunting community is divided and too busy trying to get a leg up on each other

Right now the hunting community looks like nothing but bickering children when it comes to pressuring government on big issues

Agreed.


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[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Well then you're not looking hard enough, or you just don't know where to look. Try going a little deeper than just typing msl into google.

Hilarious that in this post you're complaining that nothing significant has been done funds raised with this program (not true), and that people "need a to know they are supporting the right cause", and in the very next post you're telling us that you bought 25% of the sheep tickets that were sold. Seems a tad hypocritical? Not hard to see what you're all about lol.

My google skills are far above average, why don’t you send a couple of links so that everyone can see where the money has been going.
Ya I would have bought more if it was managed by someone else
It may be hard to comprehend, but some people want to see an improvement in our animal populations and trophy quality
The concensus of the guys on here who alway message regarding these threads is that your most likely not a wsfab rep or with the afga. Best guess is that your a govt employee. Your probably high enough to be able to make a difference but nothing productive seems to be happening. Am I close?

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

My google skills are far above average, why don’t you send a couple of links so that everyone can see where the money has been going.
Ya I would have bought more if it was managed by someone else
It may be hard to comprehend, but some people want to see an improvement in our animal populations and trophy quality
The concensus of the guys on here who alway message regarding these threads is that your most likely not a wsfab rep or with the afga. Best guess is that your a govt employee. Your probably high enough to be able to make a difference but nothing productive seems to be happening. Am I close?

Honest question Mark. From what I can tell, you dont like the way AFGA or WSFAB are being run. Who the heck should be handling the Minister's raffle sales in Alberta, if its not these two entities? No 'provincial' SCI chapter that I know of, and I just dont know what the better options are in your mind.

Surely they could do things through the govt like BC does for the Premiers tags, but thats extremely under-utilized from what I can see in BC and doesnt get much social media attention for residents to buy tickets either.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Honest question Mark. From what I can tell, you dont like the way AFGA or WSFAB are being run. Who the heck should be handling the Minister's raffle sales in Alberta, if its not these two entities? No 'provincial' SCI chapter that I know of, and I just dont know what the better options are in your mind.

Surely they could do things through the govt like BC does for the Premiers tags, but thats extremely under-utilized from what I can see in BC and doesnt get much social media attention for residents to buy tickets either.

I don’t have an answer Trevor
You would think that it would be an honor to manage these draws
It doesn’t seem like that’s the case

Watch apos will end up running these and the you wanna see peoples heads explode lol
All of a sudden all the Karen’s will come out or the closet
Just like they did when tf would buy all the raffle tickets
People are never happy. These are supposed to raise money for the wildlife. So we put in a rule that it has to be a resident for the raffle because we don’t want some American buying the auction and winning the raffle. Then, a resident who has done well buys all the tickets. Sold out, should be a success right? Nope,us normal people need a chance at such a wonderful opportunity… now we have a draw that barely sells 1/3 of the tickets. It’s a shame

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

My google skills are far above average, why don’t you send a couple of links so that everyone can see where the money has been going.
Ya I would have bought more if it was managed by someone else
It may be hard to comprehend, but some people want to see an improvement in our animal populations and trophy quality
The concensus of the guys on here who alway message regarding these threads is that your most likely not a wsfab rep or with the afga. Best guess is that your a govt employee. Your probably high enough to be able to make a difference but nothing productive seems to be happening. Am I close?

Nope, I'm definitely not a government employee. You're not close at all. I'm flattered though that you and your buddies are having theses discussions about me in private lol.
Rumor has it that you're going to get your wish and it will be managed by someone else this year. I guess we'll see how that goes.

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I don’t have an answer Trevor
You would think that it would be an honor to manage these draws
It doesn’t seem like that’s the case

Watch apos will end up running these and the you wanna see peoples heads explode lol
All of a sudden all the Karen’s will come out or the closet
Just like they did when tf would buy all the raffle tickets
People are never happy. These are supposed to raise money for the wildlife. So we put in a rule that it has to be a resident for the raffle because we don’t want some American buying the auction and winning the raffle. Then, a resident who has done well buys all the tickets. Sold out, should be a success right? Nope,us normal people need a chance at such a wonderful opportunity… now we have a draw that barely sells 1/3 of the tickets. It’s a shame

Yup us normal people always standing in the way of conservation... By normal people Im starting to gather you don't put yourself in that category.

Lol unreal...

[Jim Blake]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Nope, I'm definitely not a government employee. You're not close at all. I'm flattered though that you and your buddies are having theses discussions about me in private lol.
Rumor has it that you're going to get your wish and it will be managed by someone else this year. I guess we'll see how that goes.

AHEIA had it for a term some time ago. Maybe they will be the next administrator of the Minister Tags.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

Yup us normal people always standing in the way of conservation... By normal people Im starting to gather you don't put yourself in that category.

Lol unreal...

Unreal?
So what’s the purpose of these tags?
So 1 more animal can be shot province wide or to raise money for conservation?

[Smoky buck]

Personally I would like to see theses tags be managed to the maximum potential to generate money for Alberta wildlife

I am in no position to out bid anyone or buy an excessive number of draw applications. But I realize the more money generated the more Alberta’s wildlife will benefit, and that will benefit me in the long run

I am not highly educated on theses tags but the fact this is being used to generate money for conservation getting top dollar should be priority

[OL_JR]

So you two fellows would be happy going back to the old rules where one could buy up all the tickets on the first day and the regular joe had no chance at all in the name of squeezing every buck out? Sure sounds like it.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

So you two fellows would be happy going back to the old rules where one could buy up all the tickets on the first day and the regular joe had no chance at all in the name of squeezing every buck out? Sure sounds like it.

Make it unlimited tickets and no restrictions on the amount of tickets you could purchase for the draw

Let it buck and generate the maximum amount of money for Alberta wildlife

I may never get a chance to pull a tag but if wildlife benefits from it that is what matters. If it helps improve wildlife populations I benefit for years over a slim chance at drawing a tag

My thoughts are focusing on the big picture far out weigh the small chance at personal gain

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Make it unlimited tickets and no restrictions on the amount of tickets you could purchase for the draw

Let it buck and generate the maximum amount of money for Alberta wildlife

I may never get a chance to pull a tag but if wildlife benefits from it that is what matters. If it helps improve wildlife populations I benefit for years over a slim chance at drawing a tag

My thoughts are focusing on the big picture far out weigh the small chance at personal gain

Ya we will never agree on that, ever.

Cutting out the average guy from a potentially once in a lifetime opportunity so the rich can draw in perpetuity isn't big picture thinking. All it does is cause more fracture in the hunting community.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

Ya we will never agree on that, ever.

Cutting out the average guy from a potentially once in a lifetime opportunity so the rich can draw in perpetuity isn't big picture thinking. All it does is cause more fracture in the hunting community.

I don’t care who draws the tag because I view it as a tool to generate money for conservation

My mind set is that money can be used to improve populations and help create more future opportunities which is beneficial for years to come. That far out weighs 1 tag to me. Heck improved populations can increase the number of tags in our general draws increasing opportunities and lower draw wait times for the average joe

I don’t care if the person who gets drawn is a billionaire or on welfare. I am looking at what the intended purpose of the draw and that is to generate money for conservation so we can enjoy hunting opportunities for years to come

If increasing your odds at a slim chance of maybe drawing one of these tags in your life no we will never agree and I will never understand that kind of short sighted thinking

But you have the right to your opinion

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I don’t care who draws the tag because I view it as a tool to generate money for conservation

My mind set is that money can be used to improve populations and help create more future opportunities which is beneficial for years to come. That far out weighs 1 tag to me. Heck improved populations can increase the number of tags in our general draws increasing opportunities and lower draw wait times for the average joe

I don’t care if the person who gets drawn is a billionaire or on welfare. I am looking at what the intended purpose of the draw and that is to generate money for conservation so we can enjoy hunting opportunities for years to come

If increasing your odds at a slim chance of maybe drawing one of these tags in your life no we will never agree and I will never understand that kind of short sighted thinking

But you have the right to your opinion

There are better ways of increasing the funding to our sport other than pricing out the average person. Could simply add $ 1.00 to the application fees and raise over 7 figures...

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

Ya we will never agree on that, ever.

Cutting out the average guy from a potentially once in a lifetime opportunity so the rich can draw in perpetuity isn't big picture thinking. All it does is cause more fracture in the hunting community.

This ties in with that mule deer allocation thread
How many opportunities does the “average guy” deserve?
How many “average guys” drive a new truck, have a rv, a boat, new side by side?
Every truck I see in the road is a Denali or platinum or Laramie
A lot of these “average guys” could buy the tag at Reno if they really wanted to. But they don’t want it bad enough.
Just for the record I drive a 2012 f350 with 518k km on it

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

This ties in with that mule deer allocation thread
How many opportunities does the “average guy” deserve?
How many “average guys” drive a new truck, have a rv, a boat, new side by side?
Every truck I see in the road is a Denali or platinum or Laramie
A lot of these “average guys” could buy the tag at Reno if they really wanted to. But they don’t want it bad enough.
Just for the record I drive a 2012 f350 with 518k km on it

Mark, there are those who have "it" and those who finance "it". I run a 2010 3500 with 412 on the odometer.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Make it unlimited tickets and no restrictions on the amount of tickets you could purchase for the draw

Let it buck and generate the maximum amount of money for Alberta wildlife

I may never get a chance to pull a tag but if wildlife benefits from it that is what matters. If it helps improve wildlife populations I benefit for years over a slim chance at drawing a tag

My thoughts are focusing on the big picture far out weigh the small chance at personal gain

May as well just auction off both tags if you want to generate the maximum amount. Keep the "average joe" out of it.

Let's take the sheep and elk tags for example. I have yet to see any benefits come out of the monies from the auctions and raffles. Declining sheep and elk (out west) population so far. What have you noticed?

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

There are better ways of increasing the funding to our sport other than pricing out the average person. Could simply add $ 1.00 to the application fees and raise over 7 figures...

I would rather do both

This is the minister tags that are like playing the 649 not general draw applications. Personally I see this as a tool to generate money for conservation not a hunting opportunity. I will always view this as fund raising for wildlife and for that reason I want to see it maximized to generate money

Keep all our general draws affordable for all as it should be

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I don’t care who draws the tag because I view it as a tool to generate money for conservation

My mind set is that money can be used to improve populations and help create more future opportunities which is beneficial for years to come. That far out weighs 1 tag to me. Heck improved populations can increase the number of tags in our general draws increasing opportunities and lower draw wait times for the average joe

I don’t care if the person who gets drawn is a billionaire or on welfare. I am looking at what the intended purpose of the draw and that is to generate money for conservation so we can enjoy hunting opportunities for years to come

If increasing your odds at a slim chance of maybe drawing one of these tags in your life no we will never agree and I will never understand that kind of short sighted thinking

But you have the right to your opinion

So right now as the rules go you can still buy a pile of tickets if you want, a number of different people can put money towards conservation and maybe have a heck of an opportunity instead of one guy getting all. Instead of figuring out ways to maximize the draw in it's current form, which is still raising money by the way, it would be better to throw it out the window and go back to one fellow buying up everything... because that's the big picture.

I in turn don't understand that type of short sighted thinking.

But you have the right to your opinion.

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

This ties in with that mule deer allocation thread
How many opportunities does the “average guy” deserve?
How many “average guys” drive a new truck, have a rv, a boat, new side by side?
Every truck I see in the road is a Denali or platinum or Laramie
A lot of these “average guys” could buy the tag at Reno if they really wanted to. But they don’t want it bad enough.
Just for the record I drive a 2012 f350 with 518k km on it

Owning a vehicle or toy is a far cry from a non resident jumping the queue for a draw tag. Nice reach though...