SPFGA Update - holsters & steel core now banned

[Redneck 7]

Originally Posted by lannie

Not part of the club but I am curious as to why Holster use is prohibited?

Probably because people are quick drawing from them and that’s not allowed or having a chambered pistol in your holster. That’s the rules at Onoway anyways.

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

I prefer the front of my pants anyways. I call it stove piping it.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by ^v^Tinda wolf^v^

I prefer the front of my pants anyways. I call it stove piping it.

You should try my forehead holster

[jip911]

As a member for a number of years I am disappointed a decision like this is made in a vacuum without consulting the membership you were elected to represent.

Not a single fact provided why some groups are exempt? And others banned? Hip shooting is so much safer than the average joe who holsters his weapon a dozen times per range session.

The safest place for a pistol is in its holster.

Has long been known for the typical old boys club mentality that ensure their interests are met and forget about the 4k other members... Not everyone who shoots there is 75 and retired wannabe coyboy or benchrest guy. IPSC, IDPA, 3 gun are growing in popularity year over year and continue to get snubbed by the executive.

Email will be sent.

J

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by jip911

As a member for a number of years I am disappointed a decision like this is made in a vacuum without consulting the membership you were elected to represent.

Not a single fact provided why some groups are exempt? And others banned? Hip shooting is so much safer than the average joe who holsters his weapon a dozen times per range session.

The safest place for a pistol is in its holster.

Has long been known for the typical old boys club mentality that ensure their interests are met and forget about the 4k other members... Not everyone who shoots there is 75 and retired wannabe coyboy or benchrest guy. IPSC, IDPA, 3 gun are growing in popularity year over year and continue to get snubbed by the executive.

Email will be sent.

J

Have you put your name forward during the annual election of the executive? Do you at least show up on election night? Many people want a say in the decisions made by the executive, but they can't be bothered to volunteer their time to take part in the process.

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

we should all group together and rage quit

Excellent! PM me when you do as I've been wanting to join for quite awhile now
Capped membership and all don't you know!
Kidding of course.....or am I??

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Excellent! PM me when you do as I've been wanting to join for quite awhile now
Capped membership and all don't you know!

Something like being on the OILERS season ticket wait list

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by RandyBoBandy

Something like being on the OILERS season ticket wait list

I thought they were coming to the mailbox with the Canadian Tire flyers?

[338Bluff]

In all seriousness. I'm not versed in the pistol shooting sports, but the use of holsters by the inexperienced is likely a concern? If allowances are made for those who qualified then someone would have to police it. Is there an RSO on the firing line full time at that club to be checking certification on who can and can't use a holster?

I have not been to the SPFGA for a long time so I'm not sure what their situation is. We recently built an action bay but there is a requirement that an RSO must be on hand.

[elkhunter11]

At least nobody seems to be complaining about the steel core bullet ban. When we implemented such a ban, we had several complaints. Some members felt that they should have input on every decision the executive makes, yet those members never volunteered any time, and couldn't even be bothered to show up at any meetings. If you want to have input, then run for an executive position, last year, volunteers were so scarce at our club, we didn't have to vote on a single position. It seems that very few people are willing to pay their membership, and spend their time and money to travel to and from the facility, and to meetings to keep the range running,l yet they want a say in how the club is run.

[jip911]

It is the DUTY of ANY elected position to represent their membership be it a club, union, parliament etc.
The mentality of "if you want some input, put your name in for the executive" proves that some do not understand what they have signed up for.

Many are not in a position due to working away, family matters etc to take on these responsibilities, but it doesn't change the requirements of the position.

We have a website, facebook page etc, so polling the membership for important decisions has never been easier. The "We show up so we make the rules" mentality is ultimately why members often have animosity towards the executive, again remember these positions are voted in by MEMBERS to REPRESENT MEMBERS

Before anyone gets their feathers up, let me be clear... Being an executive or volunteer is what keeps these clubs alive. It is a thankless job and you will NEVER be able to appease every member. Without these folks who volunteer countless hours, these clubs are not possible and the SPFGA executive do what they deem necessary to sustain the club both now and into the future. They deal with many issues from neighbors, maintenance, damage, regulatory etc. etc. and I would venture to guess 90% of the membership are unaware of how many things happen "behind the scenes" to keep a club like this running.

I, like many members I have spoken with are just disappointed that important decisions that affect its membership are often made without any consultation. After a consultation period the Exec can then better understand what its members WANT and then determine if it can be accomplished or if going another route is in the best interest of the club. Again these decisions should quantifiable and substantiated to the membership.

J

[Big Grey Wolf]

Standard qualification for ATC is to have approved holster and being observed drawing and firing handgun as per CFO. Lets see! CFO requires as part of ATC approval process but range officer believes not safe?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by jip911

It is the DUTY of ANY elected position to represent their membership be it a club, union, parliament etc.
The mentality of "if you want some input, put your name in for the executive" proves that some do not understand what they have signed up for.

Many are not in a position due to working away, family matters etc to take on these responsibilities, but it doesn't change the requirements of the position.

We have a website, facebook page etc, so polling the membership for important decisions has never been easier. The "We show up so we make the rules" mentality is ultimately why members often have animosity towards the executive, again remember these positions are voted in by MEMBERS to REPRESENT MEMBERS

Before anyone gets their feathers up, let me be clear... Being an executive or volunteer is what keeps these clubs alive. It is a thankless job and you will NEVER be able to appease every member. Without these folks who volunteer countless hours, these clubs are not possible and the SPFGA executive do what they deem necessary to sustain the club both now and into the future. They deal with many issues from neighbors, maintenance, damage, regulatory etc. etc. and I would venture to guess 90% of the membership are unaware of how many things happen "behind the scenes" to keep a club like this running.

I, like many members I have spoken with are just disappointed that important decisions that affect its membership are often made without any consultation. After a consultation period the Exec can then better understand what its members WANT and then determine if it can be accomplished or if going another route is in the best interest of the club. Again these decisions should quantifiable and substantiated to the membership.

J

Being on the executive of one range, and having served on the executive of another range, I most certainly do understand the role of the executive. The executive is elected to represent the membership, and that amounts to making decisions on behalf of the membership. The executive is not going to consult the membership about each decision they make, they were elected o make those decisions, because the general membership can't be bothered to come to meetings and make those decisions themselves. As far as not having the time to volunteer at the range, we have had multiple people show up during a range maintenance day, only to whine about not being able to shoot, because of the work going on. When invited to stay and help out, nearly every one of those people left, remarking that they came to shoot, not to . work. Or they claimed that they didn't have time to help out. Those people had time to drive an hour each way to shoot for a couple of hours, and they were already at the range, but they had no time to help. When asked who he though should do all of the work, one individual remarked that he paid his membership fee, so he shouldn't have to volunteer. When asked if he would mind paying more for his membership, so we could hire people to do all of the work, he didn't like that idea either. The one common theme at both clubs where I served on the executive, is that the general membership didn't want to be bothered with the details of running the club, until it somehow inconvenienced them. Them all of a sudden the e-mails and phone call complaints started arriving, and even then, they couldn't be bothered to show up at a single meaning to discuss the situation.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by darren32

Just curious, why would you post this topic on a public forum then ask people to contact you privately? I realize only SPFGA members are entitled to the reasoning but if there is going to be no discussion publicly it makes no sense, members were notified privately.

lol

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

At least nobody seems to be complaining about the steel core bullet ban. When we implemented such a ban, we had several complaints. Some members felt that they should have input on every decision the executive makes, yet those members never volunteered any time, and couldn't even be bothered to show up at any meetings. If you want to have input, then run for an executive position, last year, volunteers were so scarce at our club, we didn't have to vote on a single position. It seems that very few people are willing to pay their membership, and spend their time and money to travel to and from the facility, and to meetings to keep the range running,l yet they want a say in how the club is run.

While I agree that all clubs need more members to volunteer, your reasoning is flawed. By your logic, if I vote for my Reeve, MLA or MP but do not actually run for the position I am not entitled to an opinion or input on the decisions made by the Municipal, Prov or Federal government. Thankfully it doesn't work that way.

I have been actively involved in many volunteer organizations. The executive and volunteers are always a very small percentage of the total membership. Even in Federal and Provincial riding associations, most positions are selected by acclimation. I have been active in F&G for almost 50 years. I have never seen a club where the executive positions were fought over. Most of the time we have been lucky to be able to fill all of them.

Despite that, I always felt my role was to represent the best interests of the club and members, not just foster my own agenda because I show up. You are right, our clubs all need more volunteers, but at least those that do should remember they took the position to be of service to others and that they owe the willingness to at least listen to the membership. Without members the exec is irrelevant.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dean2

While I agree that all clubs need more members to volunteer, your reasoning is flawed. By your logic, if I vote for my Reeve, MLA or MP but do not actually run for the position I am not entitled to an opinion or input on the decisions made by the Municipal, Prov or Federal government. Thankfully it doesn't work that way.

I have been actively involved in many volunteer organizations. The executive and volunteers are always a very small percentage of the total membership. Even in Federal and Provincial riding associations, most positions are selected by acclimation. I have been active in F&G for almost 50 years. I have never seen a club where the executive positions were fought over. Most of the time we have been lucky to be able to fill all of them.

Despite that, I always felt my role was to represent the best interests of the club and members, not just foster my own agenda because I show up. You are right, our clubs all need more volunteers, but at least those that do should remember they took the position to be of service to others and that they owe the willingness to at least listen to the membership. Without members the exec is irrelevant.

Yes you have the right to an opinion, but no club is going to ask the members for input on every issue, or hold a vote on every issue. The executive already spends enough of their time running the club, without the extra time and effort that would be involved in doing this. The MLAs and MPs are paid a salary to represent their constituency, and doing so is their full time job, so of course they should be expected to make appearances, and ask for input. In fact, if they want to be re-elected, they need to do these things. And when they are done serving, most of them receive a pension for life. On the other hand, range executives volunteer their time and even pay for their fuel to attend meetings, to show up at the range, and to conduct club business, and they still pay a full membership for the privilege of doing so. So feel free to send in your e-mail complaints if you wish, but if you are serious about an issue, take the time to appear at a meeting, so it can be discussed with the executive.

[Dean2]

Elk, I respect your willingness to volunteer but I will NEVER agree with your view on consultation of the membership. On important decisions that are optional and impact many members, and I know for sure from talking to the exec that this one was optional, members need to be consulted. There was no safety issue, pre-thought or deep rational for this decision. It popped up at an exec meeting and got passed with little thought or debate, 8 to 2.

You can bet I will be at the AGM Dec 6th to discuss this and the general method by which decisions are being made by the current executive. I encourage all the other SHPFG members on here to attend as well. It is at the Old Log Cabin in Sherwood Park, 50 Spruce Ave. 7:30.

General Meeting Notice


Thursday December 6, 2018 at 7:30 PM
Old Log Cabin, 50 Spruce Ave, Sherwood Park

ELECTION NIGHT

We are looking for members that are willing to contribute some of their time and abilities to help manage our club for he future.

Open positions are president, vice president, and environmental chair.
We could also use some help with secretary, newsletter and fisheries.

It's your club, you owe it to yourself to come out and be involved.


Have you renewed your membership yet?
Reminder the deadline to renew is November 30th.


SPFGA is now on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram

[Mulehahn]

I am not a member f SPFGA and probably never will be. But every range, and club for that matter, I have been a member holds both General and Executive meetings. Generally the Executive meetings were more frequent but they concerned themselves with addressing the day to day issues or matters that HAD to be attended before the next general. A decisions like this would always be made at a general meeting, never simply by the executive. Can pretty much guarantee the same outcome as almost no members ever show up to meetings beyond those on the board but but atleast those concerned would of had an option to say something.

Those are 2 big decisions to be just foisted on the membership. I would consider them AGM worthy even.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

I am not a member f SPFGA and probably never will be. But every range, and club for that matter, I have been a member holds both General and Executive meetings. Generally the Executive meetings were more frequent but they concerned themselves with addressing the day to day issues or matters that HAD to be attended before the next general. A decisions like this would always be made at a general meeting, never simply by the executive. Can pretty much guarantee the same outcome as almost no members ever show up to meetings beyond those on the board but but atleast those concerned would of had an option to say something.

Those are 2 big decisions to be just foisted on the membership. I would consider them AGM worthy even.

Yes non time sensitive, yet major decisions could be discussed at the AGM. Then the 1% of the membership that actually bothers to show up at the AGM, could discuss it. But even then, there would be complaints from the 99%, that can't be bothered to show up at the AGM. As to having the opportunity to voice your opinion at a meeting, both clubs that I was on the executive of, have a monthly meeting, that all members can attend. Since nobody but the executive ever shows up, it ends up being the executive meeting as well. The complaints that we had about the steel core bullet ban at our range, were all from people that have never shown up at any meeting, and have never shown up at a range maintenance day. These people were invited to appear at a monthly meeting, but they couldn't be bothered.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

I am not a member f SPFGA and probably never will be. But every range, and club for that matter, I have been a member holds both General and Executive meetings. Generally the Executive meetings were more frequent but they concerned themselves with addressing the day to day issues or matters that HAD to be attended before the next general. A decisions like this would always be made at a general meeting, never simply by the executive. Can pretty much guarantee the same outcome as almost no members ever show up to meetings beyond those on the board but but atleast those concerned would of had an option to say something.

Those are 2 big decisions to be just foisted on the membership. I would consider them AGM worthy even.

Often limiting the term length of executive can solve a lot of problems. When the executive feels he is more important to the club than the general member, its time for a change. If they mention all the extra things they do over and above the general membership, its probably time for them to move on. Some executives, can be the reason why its hard to get new volunteers for the job. Having been on many different boards over the years, I have seen this time and time again.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by gtr

Often limiting the term length of executive can solve a lot of problems. When the executive feels he is more important to the club than the general member, its time for a change. If they mention all the extra things they do over and above the general membership, its probably time for them to move on. Some executives, can be the reason why its hard to get new volunteers for the job. Having been on many different boards over the years, I have seen this time and time again.

Actually problem executives can be an incentive for new people to run for the positions. The club that I belonged to a few years ago, voted out the previous president, treasurer, and most of the executive, this year. The new president that I have been communicating with since I moved, organized what amounts to a hostile takeover, and the club is in far better hands now. He was a VP previously, and the executive would not even let him see the bylaws, so I was providing him with the details. On the other hand, my current club runs very smoothly , and the membership is content to leave the current executive in place. Not one position had to be voted on last year, and our facilities continue to improve and we are in a better financial position as well.

[gtr]

Didn't take long to prove my point.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by gtr

Didn't take long to prove my point.

You haven't made any points, the majority of your posts are nothing more than personal attacks directed at certain people. But carry on.

[Big Sky]

Should be an interesting AGM coming up for the SPFGA.

Agree that executive needs to make decisions on day-to-day stuff and emergent issues. Some things can't wait.

IMO, clubs/ranges could do a better job of getting member input. An online member survey wouldn't be that hard to do and would help guide the executive on the direction the range should be taking.

[timsesink]

I sent this in this morning. I will be at the AGM and I will be voicing my opinion tactfully.

Hello SPFGA Board
First off thank you for you time and energy invested in running SPFGA. That being said, I'm incredibly disappointed in the decision to ban steel core ammunition. The cheap price of this ammunition allows shooters to enjoy their sport more and increase their skills. Could you please provide the rationale for this decision?
Tim

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by timsesink

I sent this in this morning. I will be at the AGM and I will be voicing my opinion tactfully.

Hello SPFGA Board
First off thank you for you time and energy invested in running SPFGA. That being said, I'm incredibly disappointed in the decision to ban steel core ammunition. The cheap price of this ammunition allows shooters to enjoy their sport more and increase their skills. Could you please provide the rationale for this decision?
Tim

The steel core issue has been a long time issue. Are you a member? Because I've gotten many emails and there are facebook posts about it.

https://m.facebook.com/shpkfga/photo...=page_internal

[bobtodrick]

Well let me just say...been a SPFGA member for 10 years.
Was a member of a couple of other clubs previous to that (going all the way back to the original Edmonton Gun Club).
Bang for the buck...SPFGA hands down beats them all.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Elk, I respect your willingness to volunteer but I will NEVER agree with your view on consultation of the membership. On important decisions that are optional and impact many members, and I know for sure from talking to the exec that this one was optional, members need to be consulted. There was no safety issue, pre-thought or deep rational for this decision. It popped up at an exec meeting and got passed with little thought or debate, 8 to 2.

You can bet I will be at the AGM Dec 6th to discuss this and the general method by which decisions are being made by the current executive. I encourage all the other SHPFG members on here to attend as well. It is at the Old Log Cabin in Sherwood Park, 50 Spruce Ave. 7:30.

This is not the first time something like this has happened at the SPFG. A few years back a member (not even on the executive) proposed changes he thought should be made to the President only, who was on holidays. He received the go ahead from the president over the phone and unlike the other scenario where the executive voted on the issue, not one of the other executive were even contacted. I was on the executive and left the club soon after.

Overall I think the club is run well, but when the executive or a single executive starts to decide what is best without any feedback from the members............there will be problems.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by timsesink

I sent this in this morning. I will be at the AGM and I will be voicing my opinion tactfully.

Hello SPFGA Board
First off thank you for you time and energy invested in running SPFGA. That being said, I'm incredibly disappointed in the decision to ban steel core ammunition. The cheap price of this ammunition allows shooters to enjoy their sport more and increase their skills. Could you please provide the rationale for this decision?
Tim

Our range banned steel core bullets, after finding spent steel core bullets far from the range. We have steel posts holding up baffles that prevent bullets from being being fired over the berm, and unlike regular bullets that deform, and normally remain on the range, the steel core bullets don't expand and deform, and the ricochet can travel a long ways. Once these spent bullets were found, we immediately banned steel core bullets, to prevent any incidents.

[timsesink]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Our range banned steel core bullets, after finding spent steel core bullets far from the range. We have steel posts holding up baffles that prevent bullets from being being fired over the berm, and unlike regular bullets that deform, and normally remain on the range, the steel core bullets don't expand and deform, and the ricochet can travel a long ways. Once these spent bullets were found, we immediately banned steel core bullets, to prevent any incidents.

I got a great response from the board, it seems that a ban on steel core ammo is the way to go in this instance.