PCL general contractors. Safety overload

[petew]

PCL = people come last.

[KegRiver]

I don't think PCL is in any way unique when it comes to safety rules.

I see the same thing in all the companies I deal with or have dealt with in recent years.

Another thing I see, in most of the companies I've dealt with, is there is no real concern for safety. only for penalties and law suits that may result if safety rules are not followed.

That, I believe, is why there seems to be no reason behind so many of these rules. Everyone is looking to cover their own behinds, not anyone else's.

And it's not just safety rules. Lawyers have companies running scared on many issues.
Our county shut down all most all of the county water supply sites to avoid possible litigation. In a county where no one has ever taken any county entity to court.

Accidents happen, they always will. No rule or law can anticipate every possibility nor can they compensate for the unexpected.

Basic rules and basic safety makes sense but there is a limit. At some point the rules and regulations become so invasive that people begin to look for ways around them, and that leads to a more dangerous situation then the one those rules seek to eliminate.

Then there is the cost, at some point the cost outweighs the benefits.

I don't know what the solution is, all I know is that more rules is not the solution to anything.

[Slvdout]

Originally Posted by petew

PCL = people come last.

I disagree. We enjoy working with PCL. We have worked with different branches across Alberta and Saskatchewan and always had a pleasant experience.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Slvdout

I disagree. We enjoy working with PCL. We have worked with different branches across Alberta and Saskatchewan and always had a pleasant experience.

Me too^^^^ (just Alberta though)

PCL is employee owned. I find there's a good level of care from the lowest guy to the uppers I've dealt with.

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by petew

PCL = people come last.

Better than "Inteq" baker Hughes. Inteq = In time everyone quits.

[Newview01]

Safety is common sense.

New employee? train them properly.

And, new safety rules are not made in response to an incident. Lately it seems that pencil pushers are being paid to find ways to slow workers down. Most of the safety rules we need to follow are ridiculous and simply do not apply to what we do.

[play.soccer]

PCL = Pizza Causes Layoffs, Profits Cost Lives (True, at the Vanscoy Agrium. A guy died, fell through a scaffold.)


PCL is okay to sub contract to but their mentality is a little off. PCL's safety goes above and beyond that of the site they are actually working on. Fecto foam goggles needed even if the main site client doesn't require them. Those fecto goggles have got to be the worst ppe ever.

[Mulehahn]

In today's world of fear and litigation common sense has gone out the window. It doesn't matter the company. All have questionable SOs. I remember one job I was on outside St. Paul, a SO was sitting in the trees with binoculars trying to find violators. Another in Norther BC, my operator and I were written up for being on a ROW with out a hard hat... It was first thing in the morning, we had literally just parked and were standing at the rear doors grabbing our PPE from the back. The list goes on and on, but these two stand out because after a few more similar incidents they could not be settled politely and ended up on the HMFIC's desk. Safety doesn't take a back seat to anyone, the officers enforcing it...

[RACKER]

I work in the commercial sector and have found that PCL safety can be outrageous at times.Alot of times it is site or superintendent specific on how stupid they can be towards minor or suspect safety issues.They will threaten you with getting fired or a permanent ban on all PCL sites just so they look like they are so powerfull.I had a safety supervisor tell one of my guys he will get cancer because he wasnt wearing a mask near an area they were applying firespray on some steel beams.I told him it was fear mongering and demanded a meeting with him and the site superintendent.Needless to say it fell on deaf ears and I was watched like a hawk for months till I spoke to the ownership rep.He arranged a meeting with all the big wigs from PCL and their safety supervisor and myself.For some unknown reason the date became a conflict in their schedule and they had to cancel.What a joke.

[I_forget]

Originally Posted by play.soccer

PCL = Pizza Causes Layoffs, Profits Cost Lives (True, at the Vanscoy Agrium. A guy died, fell through a scaffold.)


PCL is okay to sub contract to but their mentality is a little off. PCL's safety goes above and beyond that of the site they are actually working on. Fecto foam goggles needed even if the main site client doesn't require them. Those fecto goggles have got to be the worst ppe ever.

Fecto goggles are required at 75% of the sites I work at. The worst PPE solution was needing a harness with lanyard anytime you're on temp scaffold. Any ladder over 6' you needed to use a retractable. Insane

[tobin]

I go to many, many large sites for my job. The stricter the site safety policy, the more the site scares me.

[79ford]

I think contractors like pcl try to please some larger clients by going over board on the safety, same goes for bantrel and a few others. Go nuts on safety and if the client finds any lapses the contractor fires or turfs the person off site etc to try and show the client how hard they drive the safety line.

I think pcl does it to themselves, i feel bad for some employees of contractors, seems like some whip their guys and girls pretty hard to make a stand or something. Working for the company itself seems no where near as harsh as how the contractors treat their own guys.


Larger companies i think show all their stuff to lawyers etc and thats how the stuff gets the way it is with safety. Paper work and procedures, some places you could chase your tail for a week if you follow all the ideas they come up with lol.

[makin tracks]

there are a thousand safety people out there that are justifying there existence by coming up with utter ridiculous safety criteria. otherwise they would be without employment.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by makin tracks

there are a thousand safety people out there that are justifying there existence by coming up with utter ridiculous safety criteria. otherwise they would be without employment.

This.

If safety were taught to be common sense, and the right to refuse unsafe work was taken seriously, we could eliminate $billions in costs to the taxpayer.

[scalerman]

It seems to me that many of the safety regulations being implemented have very little to do with actual safety and more to do with making the company look good. "Safety" has now become an industry in and of itself. It really has nothing to do with safety from a practical sense but it does make someone sitting in an office look good and feel better about themselves. It is all about fear mongering. Fear of a punishment from OH&S or from the injured worker. totally out of hand and unnecessary in many cases. It is true that a new industry has been created and now more people are working, good on one hand but it is also resulting in costs being driven ridiculously high and projects going far over budget, resulting in you and I the tax payer having to shell out more to cover those costs. A vicious circle to say the least.

[wildbill]

Years ago I had to help out some commercial guys in our company (I'm industrial) because they were starting a job putting steel decking on the new admin building at Shell Scotford. The reason they sent me is because they were about our commercial guys being on the Shell site. Everything went well while I was there. Just follow the rules, you'll be ok👍

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Newview01

This.

If safety were taught to be common sense, and the right to refuse unsafe work was taken seriously, we could eliminate $billions in costs to the taxpayer.

There is no such thing as common sence for work situations, change that to "taught industry standard" and thats perfect. To say someone has no common sense is rude, a guy may be able to rip a computer program apart and fix it but may not be able to place a flange gasket in between two pieces of hdpe pipe. Its not common sence its work experiences that teach this. Also its not the right to refuse unsafe work, it an obligation punishable by law.
As far as PCL is concerned, I think a lot of the larger oilfield related companies that work in non oilfield situations do get push back but PCL does not relax at all in the south and The Grahams, Ledcors of the world do adjust a bit. In the oil patch and down south I do find that PCL does have a "we are better than you" attitude that causes many of the sentiments people mention here. I agree with most of them. I do however get several opportunities when PCL is a sub to me, I really enjoy those jobs as their attitude coming in is a 100% different than when they are prime.

[Stonecutter]

Honestly - it's like that all over with all the big construction companies. They no longer are satisfied with meeting the OHS code - they strive to exceed it. Personally - PCL's being tied off at 6'-0" or higher rather than the specified code requirement of 10'-0" seems a bit much, but I'm an office guy. On our last project with them, we noted that there was a requirement to use tool lanyards above 4'-0". Guys were walking around with tool lanyards hanging from their belts. If they pulled a tool out of their tool pouch, it needed to be connected to the lanyard. This did seem a bit excessive.

Anyway - I notice that other large constructors on our other projects are starting to exceed requirements of the code in some aspects as well.

[warriorboy10]

Trying to accomplish a project with zero risk!! Can't drive across the street without some risk..

No wonder costs are going through the roof..

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by warriorboy10

Trying to accomplish a project with zero risk!! Can't drive across the street without some risk..

No wonder costs are going through the roof..

Zero risk or loss has to be the goal! Have an incident that causes a loss of life because standards weren't met or followed and see how much that costs.

BW

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Zero risk or loss has to be the goal! Have an incident that causes a loss of life because standards weren't met or followed and see how much that costs.

BW

But the fact remains that there is no amount of safety training that will prevent 100% of accidents.

The major safety concerns were addressed years ago. From then on it has become a petty, "we are safer than you" battle between the big generals.

[Battle Rat]

If you go home at the end of the day with all your fingers and toes and still whine about excess safety, you are reason why there are safety rules.
Be thankful that you can have a safe workplace.
Many workers in other countries do not.
If you ever loose a friend to a work related incident you will mature quickly.
I hope no one on here has to go through that.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

If you go home at the end of the day with all your fingers and toes and still whine about excess safety, you are reason why there are safety rules.

Yeah ok. Makes sense.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I don't think PCL is in any way unique when it comes to safety rules.

I see the same thing in all the companies I deal with or have dealt with in recent years.

Another thing I see, in most of the companies I've dealt with, is there is no real concern for safety. only for penalties and law suits that may result if safety rules are not followed.

That, I believe, is why there seems to be no reason behind so many of these rules. Everyone is looking to cover their own behinds, not anyone else's.

And it's not just safety rules. Lawyers have companies running scared on many issues.
Our county shut down all most all of the county water supply sites to avoid possible litigation. In a county where no one has ever taken any county entity to court.

Accidents happen, they always will. No rule or law can anticipate every possibility nor can they compensate for the unexpected.

Basic rules and basic safety makes sense but there is a limit. At some point the rules and regulations become so invasive that people begin to look for ways around them, and that leads to a more dangerous situation then the one those rules seek to eliminate.

Then there is the cost, at some point the cost outweighs the benefits.

I don't know what the solution is, all I know is that more rules is not the solution to anything.

Excellent post. In the end it all comes down to liability, and insurance companies are now making the rules.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

There is no such thing as common sence for work situations, change that to "taught industry standard" and thats perfect. To say someone has no common sense is rude, a guy may be able to rip a computer program apart and fix it but may not be able to place a flange gasket in between two pieces of hdpe pipe. Its not common sence its work experiences that teach this. Also its not the right to refuse unsafe work, it an obligation punishable by law.
As far as PCL is concerned, I think a lot of the larger oilfield related companies that work in non oilfield situations do get push back but PCL does not relax at all in the south and The Grahams, Ledcors of the world do adjust a bit. In the oil patch and down south I do find that PCL does have a "we are better than you" attitude that causes many of the sentiments people mention here. I agree with most of them. I do however get several opportunities when PCL is a sub to me, I really enjoy those jobs as their attitude coming in is a 100% different than when they are prime.

Good post.

[pikeman06]

It's painful as hell but just tell myself to relax all that orientation, tailgate meetings, safety stand downs, waiting for inspection to sign off on the permits just puts more money in your pocket in the end...it ain't going away. I don't know how a contractor can bid on a decent job these days.

[Sashi]

Construction companies have to pay dearly ($ and future contracts) for safety incidents. So if they can lay out rules for all employees, then the fault becomes that of the employee and not the company. The Company only has to hand down the rules and supply safety people to enforce them. The Company has no responsibility, they now only have to lay the blame on the employee.

[Burglecut83]

Attitude.... I know of a few incidents just in the past couple years where we have had some pretty serious near misses. Myself as a supervisor made necessary corrections to mitigate the hazard and didnt even bother telling PCL or filling out a near miss. Why in heck would I bother, they will just ban my guys off site likely me included. I bet no one from PCL got fired when a greenlee job box came flying off the 23rd floor and landed on the sidewalk last year. I saw a guy run offsite for no fall arrest a few weeks ago. Standing on a plywood decked scaffold abouy 10 feet in the air. He checked to see where the crane was. No prior verbal or written complaints. PCL guy lost it flew off the handle, fired him tried to fire 3 other guys from different trades who were in the vicinity. I later found out that the safety girl and another PCL super had a meeting and even though the safety girl thought a 3 days suspension woukd be fine the guy who saw him from pcl was very adamant that he be banned from site for good. Just a bunch of *******s. Must not be getting any from tye wife. I consider myself a fair guy. Had i seen him up there I woukd have said you need your harness up there bud. Once he went to go get it id be satisfied he learned and will be safe. No need to fire the guy. Jesus

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Excellent post. In the end it all comes down to liability, and insurance companies are now making the rules.

What I com down too, is that big companies are showing and proving they are doing their due diligence. They are conducting their tool box meetings, they are enforcing their rules. They're doing this to keep from getting their asses sued in the event that their is a loss or death on their watch.

BW

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

What I com down too, is that big companies are showing and proving they are doing their due diligence. They are conducting their tool box meetings, they are enforcing their rules. They're doing this to keep from getting their asses sued in the event that their is a loss or death on their watch.

BW

It would be a lot cheaper to get a bulletproof waiver done up and get guys to sign it as opposed to all this safety crap.