L.O.S.T. fast spine check

[Enewman]

Ok this is why I say shooting overspine spine is not that critical.

What I did is set up a Apa m5. Installed a new versa rest. Set center shot by eyeball. No tuning at this time.

The top four holes are ar 3 ft and shot with a hooter shooter. This takes out human influence and we can see what the arrow is doing dynamically.

From left to right. The first three holes are 250 spine at 26.5 ctc. First is a 200 tip. Second is a 100 tip(very stiff) then a 300 tip. Fourth arrow is a 350 spine 26.5 ctc. With a 300 tip and a 50 gn insert. Very weak.

As you can see the 200 has a slight tear left. Sign of a weak arrow. 100 gn bullet hole 300 tip slight left tear. The 350 spine bullet hole.

Next line is at 11 ft. Now as you look at it the 200 and 300 have same tear shows weak. We know this is not correct with a slight high knoc. The 100 tip is straight high knoc. Then the arrow we know is weak has the same left tear as the stiff arrows but low knoc.

This is why I'm saying paper tuning does not realy show stiff/weak. It's alignment problem with the power stroke. Until you are very week

What's funny is the arrow that is beyond stiff shot the best

This also why I say no such thing as a stiff arrow.

Now if I'm doing this wrong or looking at it I'm willing to discuss it but this is the same results I've been seeing for a long time now. This is why I went to a stiff arrow and just change tip weights for what I'm hunting if I want. Most time it's a 175 to 240 gn Zwickey.

[338Bluff]

If I shoot a bow with a `hard`cam I use an arrow slightly `stiffer`than the chart specifies. Fixed blade heads seem to tune and fly better. It works for me, but that is only my opinion and I am by no means a bow technician.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Wonder what your results would be with a standard length 28-29" arrow...and heads mentioned

With a 26.5 " arrow your starting very stiff already...and need a heavy tip to weaken spine

As discussed above STATIC spine is measured by the amount of flex in the arrow when an 880-gram (1.94 lbs.) weight is suspended from the center of the arrow. The arrow must be 29" in length and supported by two points, which are 28" apart. The number of inches the arrow deflects or bends due to the weight, is the spine size or measurement of an arrow.

so your set up for example 350 spine 26.5 ctc. With a 300 tip and a 50 gn insert...is a short stiff arrow that needs a heavy tip to weaken static spine...
or in a sence the same as a 28-29" arrow with a 125gr head

I know what your are saying..favor a heavier arrow with a heavier tip/front end for better FOC for hunting..

What I am saying your results on paper/paper tune with a 26.5 arrow extreme heads is going to react very different from the norm...

Neil

[Lefty-Canuck]

^^^^^
Yup, arrow length is an important and often over looked variable.

LC

[Enewman]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Wonder what your results would be with a standard length 28-29" arrow...and heads mentioned

With a 26.5 " arrow your starting very stiff already...and need a heavy tip to weaken spine

As discussed above STATIC spine is measured by the amount of flex in the arrow when an 880-gram (1.94 lbs.) weight is suspended from the center of the arrow. The arrow must be 29" in length and supported by two points, which are 28" apart. The number of inches the arrow deflects or bends due to the weight, is the spine size or measurement of an arrow.

so your set up for example 350 spine 26.5 ctc. With a 300 tip and a 50 gn insert...is a short stiff arrow that needs a heavy tip to weaken static spine...
or in a sence the same as a 28-29" arrow with a 125gr head

I know what your are saying..favor a heavier arrow with a heavier tip/front end for better FOC for hunting..

What I am saying your results on paper/paper tune with a 26.5 arrow extreme heads is going to react very different from the norm...

Neil

I could do test with a 340 spine cut to standard Length and maybe I should. But most people that I help is because they are looking at efoc arrows and this is what I help build for people.

Why I'm doing this was I was was told you can't shoot a very stiff arrow and tune. And nekred told me I needed to leave the tuning to the real tuners. So I'm fixing to prove one of us is wrong. Haha

What I showed in the pic with out any tuning at this time the arrow that was the stiffest shot the best.

I'm not saying that there is not a point that the arrow will perform better. It's just Very few people take the time to do this. And I agree. Tuning an arrow as I'm sure you've done countless time shooting traditional is not realy needed for compound with release aid.

As long as not underspined shoot what you want. Even gold tip tells you or that Tim guy if your shooting a fixed broadheads. Add 1 inch to your arrow lenth on the chart. A lot of times this puts you in the next higher spine.

[Enewman]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

^^^^^
Yup, arrow length is an important and often over looked variable.

LC

Yes it can be important if you take the time to tune an arrow. And I believe in this.

But what got all this started is what I posted above.

How many times have you been in a shop that the tech takes an arrow with out any regarded of the best arrow and cut it at 1 inch in front of rest or in front of riser.

There are so many ways to set up an arrow and a bow. I've done most of them. On arrows I've trimmed, I've changed out tips to find what shoots the best and I've just cut and went with it. In the long run they all work.