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  #61  
Old 12-28-2015, 09:20 AM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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Originally Posted by Bhflyfisher View Post
Have you even been into the sage factory? Or ever even dealt with their warranty over long periods of time? You second part to your post clearly indicates you never have, or ever will.

Their warranty process takes 2-3 weeks, and it does indeed take longer if they have to remake the blank from scratch. They do actually this. Give them a call. They're more than happy to explain in explicit detail how they do that.

I think you need to do some more research rather than just spouting off BS, its clear you dont have a factual based idea as to what you're talking about.
Let me guess you visited the factory an they walked you through entire process because you own Sage One now that you have this knowledge please inform us what is so superior about Sage. Maybe then I will not have to spout BS as you call it.

Enlighten us please, so we too can proceed in right direction with "correct" mindset.

Didn't mean to upset you kid, you can have your soother back.
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  #62  
Old 12-28-2015, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
You do realize that for the same money you can buy lifetime warranty on TFO Echo, or Reddington etc which you do not get with a sage loomis loop etc used rod?

And yesterday's high end rod design is OFTEN today's Asian made rod?
Some of todays Asian rods are todays high end rods. I wouldn't trade my Hardy Zenith for any rod on the market and my son feels the same way about his Loop Opti-Stream. These rods are magic to fish at all distances and should not even be mentioned in the same breath as TFO and Redington.

I have received blank cards with every used Sage I have purchased and the closeout rods have full warranty. I am not sure how the warranty work on the others.

So no I would not trade one of my rods for all of the rods you mentioned let alone one.

I have fished with TFO and the components were junky to the point of failure. There really is no warranty. They sell you a rod piece and make a profit. How much do you think a rod tip is worth for a 100-300 dollar rod when one size fits all? I think less than $10.

Redington is similar although they do have better quality components. They have not produced a rod I really liked for a long time and I have fished many. I still have a 4wt RS4 kicking around somewhere that is a nice rod. I would definitely still recommend them to a beginner especially the Classic Trout.

Echo is the stand out in your group. I have lawn cast an Echo3 in 3 weight and was impressed. Like I mentioned above it was more like a 4 weight to me. They are on sale at Cabelas and I am tempted but in this economy I have put a halt on spending.

Your statement is true regarding the top end manufacturer's lower end rods. Some of Sage's offerings like the Vantage and Flight Series were outstanding and I am sure that still holds true today. I have also heard the same of Hardy, Orvis and Winston. Their seconds are better than most company's top end. I fished a G Loomis Pro4x and although not a keeper for me, it was very nice.
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  #63  
Old 12-28-2015, 10:03 AM
Steve W Steve W is offline
 
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Just for a different angle have you though of a bamboo rod for a 3wt? A friend of mine built a few cane rods and I ended up one of his "seconds" that is a 3wt. I can cast 30' easily and use it with dries or nymphs. I now have two others for river and creek fishing in 5-6wt. They are a bit different to cast, but it's not rocket science.

I'll go back to my corner now
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  #64  
Old 12-28-2015, 10:27 AM
Troutmonk Troutmonk is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Steve W View Post
Just for a different angle have you though of a bamboo rod for a 3wt? A friend of mine built a few cane rods and I ended up one of his "seconds" that is a 3wt. I can cast 30' easily and use it with dries or nymphs. I now have two others for river and creek fishing in 5-6wt. They are a bit different to cast, but it's not rocket science.

I'll go back to my corner now
I did just come across Dan Anderson (http://bamboorods.ca/). His work is beautiful but once again I can't afford. I am always watching for good deals on either fiberglass and bamboo rods. One of these types of rods will likely be my next purchase.
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  #65  
Old 12-28-2015, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jeprli View Post
Let me guess you visited the factory an they walked you through entire process because you own Sage One now that you have this knowledge please inform us what is so superior about Sage. Maybe then I will not have to spout BS as you call it.

Enlighten us please, so we too can proceed in right direction with "correct" mindset.
I don't know why you spout, you just do. Rods like the Sage One can not be made by TFO in Calgary like you mentioned. TFOs can not even be made in Calgary. Watch the video on YouTube and there is a tour of Sage's manufacturing plant.

What makes top end rods nicer is to a person's individual tastes. Quality of components means nothing on a rod that is never fished. Super light weight rods mean nothing to someone that never hikes. Swing weight and precise accurate casting means nothing to someone learning the basics.

I could never understand and appreciate fully the precision engineering of a Lamborghini because I cant drive well enough. Mario Andretti no doubt could.

Sage One for example crosses a line for me. It is a high end precision piece of equipment that will out perform most any rod on the market. It requires your full attention however and is too much like work for my liking. One's technique has to be spot on as this rod has no forgiveness. I am not naturally talented enough to enjoy it.

Z-Axis on the other hand has lots of power in the lower end of the rod but a very fine tip that allows for some error in both casting and hook setting. It is not as accurate or precise as Sage One but to me it is as good as it gets for a rod this fast. It is my go to rod on bigger rivers or when the wind is up.

Where Zenith shines for me is the deeper flex and ability to throw accurate in close and at moderate distances. You can cast Z-Axis off the tip but it lacks the feel of a rod that flexes a little deeper in close. It allows a person to open the loops a bit a land a fly gently especially with a longer, fine leader and tippet. For medium river and stream fishing (which I do the most) it is perfect. It requires some concentration to go long but that is seldom needed.

If someone were making a rod exclusively for Stauffer Creek, he would make the ZXL 486. It is light, precise and accurate yet can handle very big Browns on very light tippet. It is also a thing of beauty especially with a Hardy reel attached.

Anyway, there is a difference for me and many, many others. Arguing about what someone should or shouldn't like for themselves is futile at best. I feel the same way as you when it comes to rifle scopes. I want a scope to show me where a bullet is going to hit under legal light conditions out to 200 yards, nothing more. Spending thousands of dollars on a scope that is going to be used for less than a minute on one or two successful hunts a season is absolutely ridiculous in my mind. Obviously it is not for others and I respect that.
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  #66  
Old 12-28-2015, 11:52 AM
4D7 4D7 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Troutmonk View Post
Thanks to 4D7 I got a hold of Geoff over at Pieroway and decided on a the
8'3" X-Series. This is the handle the beginning of the rod.
Very nice setup, that's an awesome looking handle. You will love the feel of this rod, its super sensitive but very accurate with a lot of muscle.

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Originally Posted by draytonv View Post
The problem with Pieroway is they are just asian made blanks dressed up to look nice. If you are looking for a 3 wt you are likely targeting very educated or spooky fish. Thus, I would save your money for a high end rod like the Sage One. When it comes to fly fishing hand made American product is the best.
There is nothing wrong with asian made blanks, it all comes down to quality. We north americans automatically assume that if something is not made in north america, its a piece of garbage. I had a choice of buying a sage one vs a pieroway x series. I chose the pieorway because the feel was right and I felt that it was more suited for our foothill streams. The sage one was an epic rod, but a little to fast for what I was looking for. Exactly as you stated a 3wt is used to target educated and spooky fish and in my opinion the pieroway x-series was the better choice.

I was very impressed on how accurate and straight the x-series casted when compared to a sage one . My friend and I traded rods for a bit on a drift one day, he owns and sage one and he was quite impressed on how well the the pieorway rod casted.

I wouldn't call pieorway a "bling" factor, it is more about being able to customize something that you enjoy to your own personality. It would be cool if all companies could do that. But in my opinion owning a 1000 rod is more of a "bling" factor.

The point is, there are many different products out there and eventually you will find one that will suit your needs, whether its a cheap or super expensive.

Your always gonna have the debate of "this is better than that", but really the best thing to do is go out and physically try things for yourself oppose to just reading comments on the internet.
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  #67  
Old 12-28-2015, 12:28 PM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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Good post 4d7!

Some people go by what is advertised and some prefer figuring things out by trial.

Not surprised that Rio and sage are assumed to be top quality when there is very little else to try.

Mk2750 don't know what beef you have with me or my opinion, seems like your is only that counts. Not telling anyone what to do, just asking to please point out differences that matter when it comes to comparing 200 an 1000 dollar rrod. Casting on lawn and flowing water is not the same, let alone fishing in different circumstances with variety of flies. Casting out 70-80 feet on dry land an trying to achieve that distance in water while waist deep in it with current are 2 different world's.
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  #68  
Old 12-28-2015, 12:28 PM
Troutmonk Troutmonk is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4D7 View Post
Very nice setup, that's an awesome looking handle. You will love the feel of this rod, its super sensitive but very accurate with a lot of muscle.



There is nothing wrong with asian made blanks, it all comes down to quality. We north americans automatically assume that if something is not made in north america, its a piece of garbage. I had a choice of buying a sage one vs a pieroway x series. I chose the pieorway because the feel was right and I felt that it was more suited for our foothill streams. The sage one was an epic rod, but a little to fast for what I was looking for. Exactly as you stated a 3wt is used to target educated and spooky fish and in my opinion the pieroway x-series was the better choice.

I was very impressed on how accurate and straight the x-series casted when compared to a sage one . My friend and I traded rods for a bit on a drift one day, he owns and sage one and he was quite impressed on how well the the pieorway rod casted.

I wouldn't call pieorway a "bling" factor, it is more about being able to customize something that you enjoy to your own personality. It would be cool if all companies could do that. But in my opinion owning a 1000 rod is more of a "bling" factor.

The point is, there are many different products out there and eventually you will find one that will suit your needs, whether its a cheap or super expensive.

Your always gonna have the debate of "this is better than that", but really the best thing to do is go out and physically try things for yourself oppose to just reading comments on the internet.
Thanks for your input. Another reason I went with Pieroway was based on some personal convictions on how I would like to spend my money. I would prefer to support local businesses and craftsmen like Geoff. On this point the problem I have with American made is that we are Canadian. I am not a jingoist by any means but I would like to put money into the hands of people I know face to face that they will use to support their families.
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  #69  
Old 12-28-2015, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jeprli View Post
Good post 4d7!

Some people go by what is advertised and some prefer figuring things out by trial.

Not surprised that Rio and sage are assumed to be top quality when there is very little else to try.

Mk2750 don't know what beef you have with me or my opinion, seems like your is only that counts. Not telling anyone what to do, just asking to please point out differences that matter when it comes to comparing 200 an 1000 dollar rrod. Casting on lawn and flowing water is not the same, let alone fishing in different circumstances with variety of flies. Casting out 70-80 feet on dry land an trying to achieve that distance in water while waist deep in it with current are 2 different world's.
I did explain the difference to you, it's a comprehension issue. I own and fish the rods not just lawn cast but you would have to actually read my posts to know that.
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  #70  
Old 12-28-2015, 03:04 PM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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Posting promotional videos is not really convincing. You got defensive over nothing so please don't call me stupid, comprehension is not an issue here. You're the only guy here who had to mention what's in your rod inventory to feel that you are credible enough to make decisions for others. In case someone does not agree with you they are considered stupid. Give yourself a break it's only Internet forum.
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  #71  
Old 12-28-2015, 05:08 PM
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You started with this outburst insulting anyone that appreciates a decent rod.

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Originally Posted by jeprli View Post
I highly doubt sage or any other rod manufacturer has a mandrel for every single rod they make. More like test fit a few pieces until they find one that fits your rod, if not they can always modify ferrules to make it fit correctly. Same can be done at TFO shop in Calgary.

American made means nothing, more like assembled in US if that is even the case. There are few companies who build from scratch but Sage is definitely not one of them.
Then you launched a personal attack against another member when he tried to explain the detailed manufacturing processes taking two of more weeks rather than an afternoon, proving you wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeprli View Post
Let me guess you visited the factory an they walked you through entire process because you own Sage One now that you have this knowledge please inform us what is so superior about Sage. Maybe then I will not have to spout BS as you call it.

Enlighten us please, so we too can proceed in right direction with "correct" mindset.

Didn't mean to upset you kid, you can have your soother back. .
You asked what makes a top end rod different. I explained it to you and you go off on another rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeprli View Post
Posting promotional videos is not really convincing. You got defensive over nothing so please don't call me stupid, comprehension is not an issue here. You're the only guy here who had to mention what's in your rod inventory to feel that you are credible enough to make decisions for others. In case someone does not agree with you they are considered stupid. Give yourself a break it's only Internet forum.
I have no interest in making decisions for you or anyone else. The thread is about opinions on different rods and I gave mine. I wasn't showing off my inventory, I was explaining how they were different.

I don't get defensive over nothing. I get defensive when someone insults me by telling me my rods are a waste of money and no better than massed produced junk.
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  #72  
Old 12-28-2015, 05:32 PM
Jayhad Jayhad is offline
 
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Edited, saw you bought a rod already.
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  #73  
Old 12-28-2015, 05:43 PM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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I think you might be the one who reads however fits you. Your quote does not include the post where forum member insulted me first. Same goes for you.

All those rods mentioned are mass produced
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  #74  
Old 12-29-2015, 02:53 AM
southernman southernman is offline
 
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Disregarding all the petty squabbling, this is quite a good thread, and very timely for me, I am considering a small 3 or 4 wt,
Am back in New Zealand for a bit, and have three small stream's and a small river with in 5km of home, and have been finding the 5wt sage a bit big, so have been looking at a small 7-8ft light rod, little concerned that a three weight, might not be big enough here, due to wind and even small stream's can have big trout in NZ,(10lbs plus) also a few sea run browns, in the river, as well as sum sea fish, especially Kawahai, (like coho salmon)
The warm weather has just started, and the mayfly and cadis hatches last night were full on, Nothing big caught yet, couple at 4lbs, several at half that size, but it will take a bit to get dialed in, probley should get the big rod out and go fish the flats, for sea fish, but there is something about a small bush clad stream, with crystal clear water that draws a guy back again and again,
Not quite the same choice for rods, a sage one here is $1399nz, about (1150 cad, scott even more, almost made me sick, looking about for a cheaper line of rods, I keep my eyes open.
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  #75  
Old 12-29-2015, 08:18 AM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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You should be able to find something from Composite Developments or CTS (composite tube systems). There are quite few rod builders on the island as well. I would pick CTS as I have some experience with them, CD is also a good company but never tried their blanks personal.

CTS affinity mx 8'6 4wt for a bit slower action, for faster but still progressive go with affinity X.

These might run you about 400-600nzd complete depending on builder and hardware. Slightly more for CD.

Islands are always expensive
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  #76  
Old 12-29-2015, 11:01 AM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernman View Post
Disregarding all the petty squabbling, this is quite a good thread, and very timely for me, I am considering a small 3 or 4 wt,
Am back in New Zealand for a bit, and have three small stream's and a small river with in 5km of home, and have been finding the 5wt sage a bit big, so have been looking at a small 7-8ft light rod, little concerned that a three weight, might not be big enough here, due to wind and even small stream's can have big trout in NZ,(10lbs plus) also a few sea run browns, in the river, as well as sum sea fish, especially Kawahai, (like coho salmon)
The warm weather has just started, and the mayfly and cadis hatches last night were full on, Nothing big caught yet, couple at 4lbs, several at half that size, but it will take a bit to get dialed in, probley should get the big rod out and go fish the flats, for sea fish, but there is something about a small bush clad stream, with crystal clear water that draws a guy back again and again,
Not quite the same choice for rods, a sage one here is $1399nz, about (1150 cad, scott even more, almost made me sick, looking about for a cheaper line of rods, I keep my eyes open.
I landed a 24" brown at least 6 late this summer on my 3wt. Yes on a dry fly and on the bow. The rod was capable and protected the tippet well but I don't think I would like to do it again. The wind will be a huge factor but if it is that windy the trout wont be all that spooky anyway as the water will be choppy. Just my 0.02$ if there is a chance of big fish opt for a bigger rod.
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  #77  
Old 12-29-2015, 11:23 AM
southernman southernman is offline
 
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I landed a 24" brown at least 6 late this summer on my 3wt. Yes on a dry fly and on the bow. The rod was capable and protected the tippet well but I don't think I would like to do it again. The wind will be a huge factor but if it is that windy the trout wont be all that spooky anyway as the water will be choppy. Just my 0.02$ if there is a chance of big fish opt for a bigger rod.
Some wind can be good here, as it blows cidicas, hoppers etc, on to the water, and makes it harder for the fish to spot you, and hides any poor cast's. Think i am going to go for a four wt, nothing in either local sports stores,
I here what you are saying about bigger rod for bigger fish, but NZ is different, from my experiance fishing, when i lived in the Kootneays, small water small fish, NZ not so much, I once caught a 9lb brown in a creek, with the pool not much bigger than a 3 seat couch. mind you he didn't stay in it for very long. upstreem about 100m in the first run,
I love that head shake a big brown, once they feel the hook,
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  #78  
Old 12-29-2015, 11:31 AM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
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Always remember you can give yourself a longer leader and a lighter tippet. That way you can punch the wind but still get a decent presentation. I like my lighter rods more but that fight was a little much and the current didn't help eithe. I saw the backing three times. I am glad to achived it but a repeat performance isnt in the works anytime soon.😃
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  #79  
Old 12-29-2015, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rycoma View Post
I landed a 24" brown at least 6 late this summer on my 3wt. Yes on a dry fly and on the bow. The rod was capable and protected the tippet well but I don't think I would like to do it again. The wind will be a huge factor but if it is that windy the trout wont be all that spooky anyway as the water will be choppy. Just my 0.02$ if there is a chance of big fish opt for a bigger rod.
This is a good point. While a 3 weight can make for a great dry fly rod it also has to be suitable for the fish you are catching. We still need to ensure we can play the fish appropriately and release in a timely manner.
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  #80  
Old 01-20-2016, 06:21 PM
Macbrown1 Macbrown1 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jason.seaward View Post
Troutmonk... Where can you get the Cabela cgr glass rods? Were u going to order from the states, can I cannot find them locally. Heard good things about them based on the price.
i have a 3wt and 5wt blue halos if you're looking for glass rod? they are a blast to fish dries with on smaller streams.
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  #81  
Old 01-21-2016, 08:29 AM
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Can someone tell me the difference between a cheap and an expensive rod?

Just kidding folks. This is a very informative thread...I've learned a ton about the different rods, and the people on this forum!
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  #82  
Old 01-21-2016, 09:28 PM
lannie lannie is online now
 
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With 3 wt and under one option often over looked that I find very pleasing is a down locking reel seat that is available with some manufacturers. A high quality double taper line on a nice light reel with a down locker feels great. Every rod I have casted needs a certain length of line or weight out past the tip before it feels balanced but with a 3 wt set up like this that "balanced feeling" will cover a longer length of line with the down locker. Be nice if you could try one out as they used to be much more popular but have really faded in the last 15 or 20 years. My 3wt is a Thomas & Thomas. I am sure many will disagree but I would also stick to a 2 piece rod for 3wt and under.
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  #83  
Old 01-22-2016, 01:04 AM
Fenix_84 Fenix_84 is offline
 
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Informative thread, answered a lot of questions. But still waiting for some reasoning on why Asian made blanks are so inferior when some of the highest quality products come from there. How is it that they built most of the appliances in your house but can't figure out how to bind some sheets of carbon together? I also don't understand the whole America made is better argument especially when they manufacture some of the lowest quality cars today.

Not trying to start a debate on who makes better products, just wanted to point out how baseless this argument is.

As pure and grounded as we believe fly fishing to be it's still a business with brand recognition on the forefront. Of course companies spend millions on research and development but they spend at least that amount advertising why their product is better than the next guys. Just because something costs more and more professionals are paid to endorse it doesn't mean it's what it's said to be.

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against expensive rods for all I know they may very well be better rods. My problem stems from people preaching their opinions as though it is facts and not realizing that they may very well be wrong. Looks to me of a classic case of people trying to justify their purchases.
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  #84  
Old 01-22-2016, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Fenix_84 View Post
Informative thread, answered a lot of questions. But still waiting for some reasoning on why Asian made blanks are so inferior when some of the highest quality products come from there. How is it that they built most of the appliances in your house but can't figure out how to bind some sheets of carbon together? I also don't understand the whole America made is better argument especially when they manufacture some of the lowest quality cars today.

Not trying to start a debate on who makes better products, just wanted to point out how baseless this argument is.

As pure and grounded as we believe fly fishing to be it's still a business with brand recognition on the forefront. Of course companies spend millions on research and development but they spend at least that amount advertising why their product is better than the next guys. Just because something costs more and more professionals are paid to endorse it doesn't mean it's what it's said to be.

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against expensive rods for all I know they may very well be better rods. My problem stems from people preaching their opinions as though it is facts and not realizing that they may very well be wrong. Looks to me of a classic case of people trying to justify their purchases.
It is not so much country of origin. My favorite rod is made in S Korea (Hardy Zenith) and my son's favorite rod (Loop Opti Stream) is made there too.

Your appliance comparison is a good one. One can buy a ultaquiet dishwasher that will last decades and another that will rattle you out of the house and last a few years. They may be from the same country or even the same factory. Using the cheap fly rod argument; they both will wash dishes.

Light weight rods that flex at different points and can withstand extraordinary stress didn't just show up at a factory one day. They were designed by innovative fly fishers and rod makers that spent their lives on their trade. Year after year the changes they make are sometimes subtle but overall we evolved from the stone ages in the last 50 years or so.

Today you can very well purchase a low cost rod that has been copied from these folk's work. The quality of the materials and finish may lack and they may perform at a slightly lower level, but they do catch fish.

Like I mentioned earlier, the best deals are when a company retains the latest and greatest designs of yesterday and sell them as a second or third tier rod. There is also the closeout and used market.

Anyway, I have never met a fly fisher that tried to justify their purchases. We like what we like and pay what we will. Most will offer an opinion if asked but have little interest in what someone else thinks about their stuff or what they did or didn't pay for it. The only place it seems to matter is online.
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  #85  
Old 02-22-2016, 08:55 PM
Bhflyfisher Bhflyfisher is offline
 
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I know this is a bit of a revival.

But considering a member decided he needed to spout that sage rods definitely are not built/crafted in North America. They're walking those who are interested through the process of exactly how it happens.

http://www.sageflyfish.com/blog/category/build-a-rod/
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  #86  
Old 02-23-2016, 08:06 AM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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This is only MOD building department, where $1000+ rods are built. Good try.

I really don't care about sage, if it makes you happy than enjoy it. There are a few of their rods I would like to own but those are out of production.
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  #87  
Old 02-23-2016, 09:07 AM
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Last time I checked America hadn't been the only country with computers and labour workers. My friend that lived in Korea says they have better public technology there than America. I don't know guys, opinions are like...
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:25 AM
Bhflyfisher Bhflyfisher is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeprli View Post
This is only MOD building department, where $1000+ rods are built. Good try.

I really don't care about sage, if it makes you happy than enjoy it. There are a few of their rods I would like to own but those are out of production.
MOD is actually one of their latest rods, not a specific building department. You really wouldn't change your tune until they gave proof that they built every rod in their lineup would you?
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  #89  
Old 02-23-2016, 07:41 PM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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Look if it will make your day I'll admit this, you're a great fisherman and great entertainment when it comes to fly fishing videos. Keep that up, let alone the "non beleivers", i'm sure you got better business to do.
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