Bull Trout spawning stream at risk

[Don Andersen]

Folks,

An article in the Red Deer Advocate.

http://www.reddeeradvocate.com/news/...ref_map=%5B%5D

It is worth noting that legal fishing has been banned for some time. Fishermen have done their part.

Don

[FlyDog]

What a disgrace. They really need to start handing out a lot more of those $25,000 fines.

[3blade]

It is very possible those idiot ohv users are going to get everyone banned altogether from motorized access to the foothills. Like most, I don't have a problem with ohv's but there is too many bad apples who are simply too stupid to change. One of those rare cases where more restriction is a good thing.

[RisingRainbows]

The creek's too important of a spawning habitat to fish so we rightly close it and yet we don't have the respect to keep our atv's away. Piece by piece we're destroying our natural habitat and species. Brutal.

[pipco]

Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.

[Donkey Oatey]

I was taken out to that trail once. Will never ride it again because of all the creek crossing the trail has. Beautiful area and great ride, horrible area for impact. Will never ride again there.

[Bhflyfisher]

Originally Posted by pipco

Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.

Yeup.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by pipco

Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.

We need to be fair and impartial.
Designate areas motorized or ban them completely. It is so nice to be in areas where no motorized vehicles are at all and it thins the people out.

[shep dog]

Originally Posted by pipco

Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.

Seems reasonable enough to me.

[Exploits]

Well hopefully with the new gov't they will ban these things outright or make a fenced in area that has pits and mud and all the stupid stuff people do on these machines. The vast majority of owners just want to play in mud, so build a huge rec area with all that garbage and let them have at it. Why let them go out and destroy the west ? Some provinces have laws that limit their use to old logging roads and hard surfaces only. They need to increase fines so that the owners can't afford to keep these stupid, useless machines. OHV owners have no right to destroy any habitat, ever, period. IMO it's too late now anyway, most of the west has been chewed up beyond repair.

[SuperG]

we should put a crew together and fix it up...maybe make a temp log bridge and put some signs ?

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by pipco

Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.

and there's the solution

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by Exploits

Well hopefully with the new gov't they will ban these things outright or make a fenced in area that has pits and mud and all the stupid stuff people do on these machines. The vast majority of owners just want to play in mud, so build a huge rec area with all that garbage and let them have at it. Why let them go out and destroy the west ? Some provinces have laws that limit their use to old logging roads and hard surfaces only. They need to increase fines so that the owners can't afford to keep these stupid, useless machines. OHV owners have no right to destroy any habitat, ever, period. IMO it's too late now anyway, most of the west has been chewed up beyond repair.

I think you wrong Imo. I say the majority are respectful and tread lightly. It's the you tube warriors that will wreck it for the rest of us who actually try to avoid damaging where we ride.

[selanne88]

Area has been a popular ATV/Camping area for many years. The flood of 2005 has made the trail from the Supine Mainline Road to the blue bridge where most people use to random camp a mess. Existing creek crossings have mostly disappeared in the valley below the falls, lots of trees scattered along the old trail. New trails/crossings were taken, and once someone sees fresh tracks everyone follows. Its been at least 6 years since I have been on this trail, it maybe worse/better?. I think it would be difficult to do trail maintenance here (same as been done at Bighorn dam, Hummingbird etc) as it is a pretty narrow valley the creek follows and bridges would be prone to flooding. As a fisherman and Atver, I think most people are respectful of our resources and there can be a common ground to be reached so everyone can enjoy the area. Maybe a timing restriction for Atvs when Bull Trout are in area spawning? approx. Aug 1to October 31? just a thought. Anyone one else have any ideas?

[kevin1949]

I keep hearing how most ohv users are respectful ect,ect, but the streams and hills and valleys still get torn up.This has gone on for years now.I can no longer be convinced that people don't know better.Unfortunately restricting them to a specific area may be the only answer.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by kevin1949

I keep hearing how most ohv users are respectful ect,ect, but the streams and hills and valleys still get torn up.This has gone on for years now.I can no longer be convinced that people don't know better.Unfortunately restricting them to a specific area may be the only answer.

I understand why you are saying that but....

If you table solutions to problems that other users have to make all sacrifices it is hard to get anywhere. If you don't point fingers and say WE should all give up motorized access you will have a much better chance of achieving the goal of making the habitat for the Bull trout better. If you want to make it the very best for the Bull Trout and that is truly your interest then ask for the water to be a stream that fishing is never allowed in. We need to stop pointing fingers and unite all of our efforts for a common goal.

[shep dog]

Originally Posted by lannie

I understand why you are saying that but....

If you table solutions to problems that other users have to make all sacrifices it is hard to get anywhere. If you don't point fingers and say WE should all give up motorized access you will have a much better chance of achieving the goal of making the habitat for the Bull trout better. If you want to make it the very best for the Bull Trout and that is truly your interest then ask for the water to be a stream that fishing is never allowed in. We need to stop pointing fingers and unite all of our efforts for a common goal.

What a pile of BS.

Read the FIRST post: fishing has been suspended in the stream.

We're not talking about a group of people (quaders) with a common goal of preserving Bull trout habitat.

Ban them outright or restrict their use to designated trails.

[SuperG]

Is there Signs? Sounds like Gov isn't doing there job if you ask me.

[RisingRainbows]

We definitely need to restrict the use of OHV's more. I just spent a week in Willmore where no motorized vehicles are permitted and the area is pristine. Trails with minimal footprint, no garbage, beautiful area. Huge contrast from areas heavily used by OHV's.

[Don Andersen]

Super G,

An effort was made by fishermen to reduce damage by paying for and installing bridges and signage. The motorized bunch took offence. Both signs and bridges are gone - some through flooding and some through vandalism.

The logging company has made efforts to reduce access. The quads just bypass the gate.

Falls Creek has been recognized for many years as critical spawning habitat to the North Sask. River.

There have been several things done:

1) closure to fishing for bull trout.

2) followed by closure to fishing for anything

3) access closures during very wet periods.

And Lannie, it appears that fishermen have done more than any others to deal with the issue that they didn't create or endorce. When are those responsible going to do their part? This multi-user crap just plain doesn't work.
Until Govt requires OHV's to pay to play c/w enforcement, nothing will get done.

And just to illustrate, west of Rocky, the number of tickets handed out to "recreational users" for various illegal activities was over 900 since the first of the year.

OH, the joys of living along the eastern slopes.


Don

[Okotokian]

Fisherman: Not the problem
OHV users: somewhat part of the problem
Unfettered industrial and resource development: most of the problem.

IMHO anyway. We could ban fishing and OHV's altogether and our fisheries will still disappear.

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Fisherman: Not the problem
OHV users: somewhat part of the problem
Unfettered industrial and resource development: most of the problem.

IMHO anyway. We could ban fishing and OHV's altogether and our fisheries will still disappear.

BS - the same guys would get canned for performing on weekdays like they do on weekends. No company would tolerate the blatant disregard for the environment where it works.

Don

[lannie]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Fisherman: Not the problem
OHV users: somewhat part of the problem
Unfettered industrial and resource development: most of the problem.

IMHO anyway. We could ban fishing and OHV's altogether and our fisheries will still disappear.

I agree with most of this but I believe fisherman ruin habitat too and kill many fish directly and indirectly.

[Myles]

Originally Posted by lannie

I agree with most of this but I believe fisherman ruin habitat too and kill many fish directly and indirectly.

Lannie, how do fisherman ruin habitat?

[lannie]

Originally Posted by Myles

Lannie, how do fisherman ruin habitat?

When a fisherman sets his foot in the water it starts there and continues. The amount of Redds that are affected is much higher than most see. If your footprint is there where the fish live it is the beginning of the slippery slope. It may seem insignificant to you but think of the thousands wading in the Crowsnest or livingstone each season.

[goldscud]

Just closing the creek during spawning time isn't enough. Habitat destruction resulting in siltation over specific upwelling spots where the fish select redds happens long before the actual spawning is attempted.

[RisingRainbows]

Originally Posted by goldscud

Just closing the creek during spawning time isn't enough. Habitat destruction resulting in siltation over specific upwelling spots where the fish select redds happens long before the actual spawning is attempted.

Agree, and it affects more than just bulls. Increased erosion creating more sediment in the water and silt on the bottom has impacted grayling greatly in this province as well.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

BS - the same guys would get canned for performing on weekdays like they do on weekends. No company would tolerate the blatant disregard for the environment where it works.

Don

Are you serious? You think OHV's cause more damage than hanging culverts, bridges and roads over the streams, clear cutting and resource development and gravel extraction that causes silt and other things to clog the streams. That quad riders do more damage than oil sands extraction and tailing ponds??

I should note I was talking about fish habitat generally, not necessarily that little section of the stream shown. Perhaps that is where the confusion and your comment is coming from. I wasn't trying to say that those sets of tire tracks were from industrial workers.

[AlbertaCutthroat]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Are you serious? You think OHV's cause more damage than hanging culverts, bridges and roads over the streams, clear cutting and resource development and gravel extraction that causes silt and other things to clog the streams. That quad riders do more damage than oil sands extraction and tailing ponds??

I should note I was talking about fish habitat generally, not necessarily that little section of the stream shown. Perhaps that is where the confusion and your comment is coming from. I wasn't trying to say that those sets of tire tracks were from industrial workers.

There are drainage's with next to no active industrial activity where quads are by far the biggest threat to bull trout. We call them in while hiking every year, not enough resources for SRD to tackle the issue. The streams have been long shut down to legal angling yet the ATV's continue to have free reign/ destroy large areas. Bull trout numbers continue to slide in some of these areas. It's very sad.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by AlbertaCutthroat

There are drainage's with next to no active industrial activity where quads are by far the biggest threat to bull trout. We call them in while hiking every year, not enough resources for SRD to tackle the issue. The streams have been long shut down to legal angling yet the ATV's continue to have free reign/ destroy large areas. Bull trout numbers continue to slide in some of these areas. It's very sad.

Sad, agree totally. But don't we already have legislation that prohibits the pictured behavior? Don't we just need some pointed enforcement?