Will it still be here?

[ElDiablo]

I had an interesting chat with a landowner I was asking permission of yesterday. 10 years ago, he let every hunter that asked permission on. 5 years ago, he started picking and choosing who he let on, because he was having considerable problems with idiots. Last year, he shut it all down when he found a dead horse.....( a $10 000 horse) with a bullet right behind the front shoulder . Our conversation turned from a hostile "No hunting.....get off my property" to "I'm terribly sorry I can't give you access here this year" over the course of a marathon 3 hour chat lol. One of the topics that came up in the conversation, was the quickly decreasing acres on which hunters are granted access. This fella in particular owns just shy of 1000 acres, and has completly shut it down to ANY access for hunting period. Even his 19 year old nephew isn't allowed anymore. He has a bunch of buddies in the area, and collectivley, they own and/or control close to 3000 acres of primo hunting land (all of it, FULL of game). All of it is off limits to everybody. While I can completley understand why this has happened, my concern is for my kids. I have 2 young boys ( 3 and 1 1/2 ) and one in the oven (god willing....will be a boy too). When my boys are stronger and faster than dad, and are able to venture out hunting and fishing on their own......will there be any left to have?

Between the bull**** spewed from PETA and the like, and all the lunatics cruising around in their trucks, shooting horses, cutting fences, tresspassing and ****ing off landowners, I'm getting more and more worried about the future of the sports I hold so near and dear to my heart. I've spent the last 8 days straight scouting for Elk herds in 212 ,312, 406, 412 and 308 and I have talked to more landowners in the past week than some hunters will talk to in a lifetime. The results are dissapointing at best, if not apalling. If I had to wager a guess, (and this is only a guess), I would guess that I have asked permission on at least 100,000 acres, and at least 150-250 landowners. Some turned out to only have 20 or 30 acres, some had thousands of acres. A tiny percentage of these landowners welcomed my presence... one even offered to come haul an animal out with his tractor (and another encouraged me to poach more than my limit cuz "they're eating me outta house an home" lol). Another tiny percentage said NO at first, then granted me access after a lengthy "convincing" session. The rest, (most of them politley) denied access, and recited story after story about irresponsible ********s abusing their PRIVILIDGE to hunt the owners private land. The following question/statement is directed AT you ********S that give the rest of us a bad image, and NOT at those of us that RESPECT the PRIVILIDGE to hunt ON SOMEONES LAND.


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE THINKING?

I..... as a RESPONSIBLE hunter, am cogniscent of my surroundings, and I'm aware of how lucky I am to be granted access to enjoy the fruits of someone elses hard work. These places ain't cheap, and I'm amazed that ANY of these folks allow people they don't know from Adam, to spend time enjoying their land. Why would anybody in their right mind do ANYTHING to jeopordize that incredibly gracious action? You people should be shot and ****ed on.

For the rest of us....... the time is now for a united front. It's amazing how fast our accessible, huntable acres are disappearing. If we don't stand up tall, and say NO to stupidity, none of our kids will have a snowballs chance in hell of experiencing what we take for granted right now. Go spend even a day knocking on doors trying to get hunting access in moderatley populated areas, you'll see what I mean. I can remember hunting with my dad north of Edmonton 20 + years ago, when the hardest thing about asking permission was a mean dog in the driveway when you pulled up. I can't ever remember anybody saying no to us. Now, it's cause for celebration to be granted access to 40 acres. WHAT HAPPENED?

Report a poacher pays $$$$$ rewards for information leading to the conviction of trespassers and poachers. USE THIS SERVICE LIKE A SECOND INCOME!!!! In the past five years, I have collected alot in report-a-poacher money. I have put all of this, plus a bunch back into the industry through pheasants forever, Ducks, and every hunting shop in Alberta. If you see somebody doing something stupid, tell the boss, cuz at the end of the day, they're ruining your kids chance at enjoying this amazing sport.


.....and now for something completly different.


Another topic that came up in the conversation I spoke of above, was the "deposit system". I don't agree with paying for hunting access. In the States, it has limited the "not so wealthy"s opportunity to hunt. But what about a cash deposit system.....that counts towards your credit beureu? When you are granted access, you sign a form indebting you to the landowner for a fixed penalty per offence. For instance, cutting a fence entitles the landowner to $1000, driving your truck on "foot access only" land entitles the landowner to $2000, littering is $300 etc. The argument could be made that there will be "landowner abuse" of the system......but do you think it will be less than the "hunter abuse" of the system? I don't think so. I think it will make hunters more accountable for their actions, and lessen the stupidity of some. In the state access is in now, if a hunter does something stupid on private land, the worst outcome he faces (in most situations) is being denied future access. If the worst a hunter could face would be a $5000 penalty, or damaged credit, it may make some of these guys think a little harder about what they are about to do.

What do you guys think?

[WCTHEMI]

While its to bad he closed access, I understand why he did it. Its a shame that a clueless few can ruin a good thing for everyone. Steeper penalties may help, but most law breakers are of the opinion that they won't get caught.

[mulecrazy]

I would agree that as it is a shame that this land is now closed I completely understand why he did it. I believe that a lot of our problems with access are caused by the minority of hunters. It is my belief that it is escalating due to the fact that some of the older generation hunters who used to have unlimited access anywhere feel that they hunted this piece of land 15-20 years ago and no one can stop me know. Although a lot of younger hunters do the same thing and not one age group is responsible. I like to take a few minutes and chat up any landowner I meet. Most of these guys can be great and will give you a lot of valuable information as to where the big boys like to hang out. One fellow in particular made my dad and I sit and have a beer with him and chatted us up for over an hour. It worked out well for us as I shot my mulie on his land way up on top a ridge and in a back hidden coulee. with the road 1.5 miles away it would have been a heck of a drag but they graciously gave the gate key to my dad and he came up with the quad.

Another landowner in the area knows my friend and I quite well as we do a lot of elk hunting with our bows on his land. He loves the fact that we respect his land and have had some success in the past. He absolutly hates the elk as the herd bull loves to destroy his hay bales if they are left out. He made sure that we come and tell him when we are successful and if it is needed he will come out with his tractor to retrieve our game. All it took was a little bit of our time and he treats us really well.

It just goes to show that if you take the time to get to know these people you will find a lot more doors open up. I would also have to agree that the punishments for offences in a lot of cases are a joke and stiffer penalties will help curb a lot of unwanted behaviour.

most law breakers are of the opinion that they won't get caught.

That's the thing, they usually are not caught. Or, a lot of times it's "Oh, that's Billy, so-and-so's nephew. Guess he must be back from college." and they don't want to come down hard on their neighbours nephew because they need use of their haybine every now and then.

A weakness in the proposed deposit system is (and we've all had it happen) when you are hunting on a property, and you have unauthorized hunters accessing the land simultaneously... Are you willing to pick up the tab if someone accesses the property and damages/litters/poaches on it? As far as the landowner knows, you're the only person that he authorized... And in a big property, you may not have seen the other party, let alone call them in.

Just some thoughts.

Stinky B.

[Cam-hunter]

We have all heard the stories and its to bad the truth of the matter is its only takes 1 bad apple
Thankfully we still have it pretty good up here knock on wood not to many bad apples make it up here on a regular basis

[Mintaka]

*

[Suka]

Unfortunately it's only going to get worse. Our population is steadily increasing, becoming more urban, and transient. Where people used to hunt mostly within 30-50 miles of their home, now it's common for people to routinely travel hundreds of miles to hunt.
As more people post land, those who don't are inundated with requests. I've heard of some who take their phone off the hook to get a moments peace.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Hunting is Alberta's form of game population control and management. If there's a fee, it should be levied against those who Don't allow hunting access.

One hears of these stories of domestic animals being shot; if I'm not mistaken an nfa membership's insurance might(?) cover that? Locally all my life I've been told these local stories, a few yrs ago I got sick of hearing them, and whenever I heard one, tried to track it down. It's never happened in our area, despite what the locals believe.
That being said, we've all seen bozo's in the field. The game warden's seem to have more of a presence than ever, perhaps because so much land is posted, their resources aren't spread quite so thin? If that's such a major concern, maybe there needs to be insurance involved with a win#. PL and PD ins. is dirt cheap, especially in volume. I seriously doubt it would raise the cost of a win card by more than 2 or 3 dollars, and there goes that arguement.

I don't know what the future will bring, but remember, too, when hunting you are acredited, and licenced by the federal and provincial government to harvest game.

[Unregistered user]

Nfa membership gets you liability insurance for $7.95 a year, also mention to the landowner you're an AFGA member if you are, it's opened a few doors for me. Get your permission early in the year, a busy farmer won't have patience for you during harvest. Learn to accept rejection graciously and don't forget to drop off the fancy chocolates whether you got your animal or not.

[duffy4]

I find it hard to believe that many hunters who approach a landowner to talk to them and ask permission, would be the ones to abuse the land and or any livestock.

I think the "slob hunters" who cause the trouble are those who donot bother to ask permission. So when a landowner says "I will not give you permission because someone else did something" I do not understand that.

I am an AF&GA member but I don't see that fact opening many doors for land access. Anyone with the $ for a membership can get a membership card. Now if one had to go through an interview, write a law and ethics test and do a firearms saftey and competency test to get an AF&GA membership it would mean something more. Maybe not for a regular membership (it would sure reduce the regular members) but for a "special" class of AF&GA membership, or a "Certified Hunter Card" or something like that.

Robin in Rocky

[ElDiablo]

Although I agree with you Duff, I have to tell you, sadly this is not the case often. One of the fellas I talked to this morning had a guy that hunted on his land for the past 4 seasons (06 being his last season). In Oct of last year, he watched the guy bring 3 of his buddies in on quads to "push the herd" over to where he was at. This was after the landowner very clearly told the guy that NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES were to be on the land. A couple days ago, another guy told me about an idiot that showed up on opening day (after asking permission for HIMSELF and 1 BUDDY) with 6 guys, and tried to tell the landowner (after he got sh!t) that "that's how many guys it takes to call in a bull .

I've heard lots of stories lke this lately, and although I believe the vast majority of us represent our sport with the pride it deserves, the select few lazy, goodfernuthin, worthless pieces of crap that do this stuff are still out there, and we need to make it a priority to get the hell rid of them.

[lazy ike]

It really sucks to see more access denied. I usually don't ask to hunt private land until I have something of a relationship with the land owner. More often than not they will offer to let me on. Gopher hunting is another great way to get a toe in the door.

[Chung66]

The government should stop paying the farmers for damage done to their crops / livestock done by wildlife period.
If they want something done about it, then allow hunting.

It is the same in Strathcona County. Many hundreds of deer are hit by vehicles. None allows hunting around there. Many of them feed "their" deer year round. They are the one who should foot the bill for the autobody repairs.