saltlick/baiting/problems

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Our governing body does bait wildlife, for observational purposes... What do you think, all those banded birds just line up, single file of course and poof the band is attached and the birds exits stage left ?

My opinion, the reg's are written this way in order to continue the observation of our resources in hope of gathering information for the future of our sport..

Different subject all together....... I believe the subject is focused on big game baiting....... Not sure where birds come into this

Nikon

[KegRiver]

I think we can all agree that what makes things like this so controversial is that it is obvious to most of us that such activities can so easily be used as an excuse to skirt or outright break the law.

It seems to me that the law is clear, that our baiting laws are all about intent.
The intent in this case is to draw animals for the purpose of killing one or more.

No where does it say that one can not set out or employ bait for the purpose of observation or photography. But I think we all realize that it would be very tempting for a person of low moral character to put out bait/salt for the purpose of hunting and try to claim it was for photography or observation.

So in my opinion, it would be in our best interests to not put out such attractants for any purpose.

The same as with driving around the countryside with the intent to spot and stalk animals. We all know that this is legal. But most intelligent people also realize that such activity make a poachers life a bit easier. The same goes for the salt block/ baiting thing.

Let the poachers be the ones that claim they are not breaking the law so they will do what they please. When it is us that make such remarks, even when we have no intent to break the law, we are providing poachers with perfect cover.

I don't think making life easier for poachers is in our best interests.

[roland77]

This is my first season bowhunting deer in this province andvi have the use of a 40 acre hay field with tree lines on one side. I put a camera on a trail that didn't look all that used...and put a camera in the woods. 1 doe in 2 weeks at 2 am on the cam in the woods.



If I can't bait...how else can I get the deer to start visiting more frequently? ?

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by roland77

This is my first season bowhunting deer in this province andvi have the use of a 40 acre hay field with tree lines on one side. I put a camera on a trail that didn't look all that used...and put a camera in the woods. 1 doe in 2 weeks at 2 am on the cam in the woods.



If I can't bait...how else can I get the deer to start visiting more frequently? ?

Try finding a scrape line....Set your camera up over a scrape.... If you can't find any yet try making a mock scrape........ But they should start showing up in the next couple weeks.......Should help getting bucks on your camera

Nikon

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Try finding a scrape line....Set your camera up over a scrape.... If you can't find any yet try making a mock scrape........ But they should start showing up in the next couple weeks.......Should help getting bucks on your camera

Nikon

X2

Baiting is not the only way to get deer to frequent an area, use of scents is legal.....and now is the time to get them to start frequenting mock scapes etc.

LC

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

X2

Baiting is not the only way to get deer to frequent an area, use of scents is legal.....and now is the time to get them to start frequenting mock scapes etc.

LC

Lefty

Another tip is to use another scrape from another area and dig up some soil from it and dump it in another bucks scrape... Drives the buck in the area nuts.... he should come back and freshen up his scrape...... Put up your camera and you should get pics of the dominant buck in the area

Nikon

[cutthroat666]

Originally Posted by roland77

This is my first season bowhunting deer in this province andvi have the use of a 40 acre hay field with tree lines on one side. I put a camera on a trail that didn't look all that used...and put a camera in the woods. 1 doe in 2 weeks at 2 am on the cam in the woods.



If I can't bait...how else can I get the deer to start visiting more frequently? ?

Don't forget - rattling / calling is legal.

If your area is not bringing the deer to you with legal scent and calling techniques - you are going to have to go to them. Move to another area. Try different types of areas. Maybe you are in the wrong type of terrain / trees for the animal you are hunting - at least at that time of year.

It is called hunting for a reason. When your momma (er the bunny) put out Easter Eggs in April - did she dump em in your lap or did ... you ... hunt for them?

Go hunting - that is the joy of this time of year. You never know what beauty you may see out there ... maybe a lynx, maybe a nice WT buck, maybe just a few rays on the face and another day of experience.

Enjoy the hunt.

cutthroat

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Lefty

Another tip is to use another scrape from another area and dig up some soil from it and dump it in another bucks scrape... Drives the buck in the area nuts.... he should come back and freshen up his scrape...... Put up your camera and you should get pics of the dominant buck in the area

Nikon

I have heard of doing it but never tried it myself....another good tip!

LC

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by roland77

This is my first season bowhunting deer in this province andvi have the use of a 40 acre hay field with tree lines on one side. I put a camera on a trail that didn't look all that used...and put a camera in the woods. 1 doe in 2 weeks at 2 am on the cam in the woods.



If I can't bait...how else can I get the deer to start visiting more frequently? ?

Try to locate the funnels in this area, this will direct the highest consentration of activity towards your camera.. We hunt the flat land, open spaces and using these natural funnels has produced well for us..

There may be a staging area as well behind the bluff of trees, check this area as the bucks will hold up and feed out under the cover of darkness..

Good Luck !

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Try to locate the funnels in this area, this will direct the highest consentration of activity towards your camera.. We hunt the flat land, open spaces and using these natural funnels has produced well for us..

There may be a staging area as well behind the bluff of trees, check this area as the bucks will hold up and feed out under the cover of darkness..

Good Luck !

Sled

Funnel areas are deadly....You bet... let the deer come to you........Example is The Battle river bottoms work really well as funell areas for Whitetails..... Had real good luck hunting the river bottoms

Nikon

[TBark]

Our own opinions (ethics) follows the laws, right, or do they ?
As mentioned here a few times, if you feel it is unethical to us, or hunt near an attractant of any type when you hunt here in AB, then if you were invited on a hunt in Sask, then you would definitely not use a bait with the folks you hunt with there, right ? If you did, then ethics is not the issue, and you are just following the rules. And on the flip side, if the rules changed and we could bait here, (no need IMO) would we ? If you did, ethics plays no part. Your just a law abiding hunter, and good on you, hopefully we all are.

TBark

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by TBark

Our own opinions (ethics) follows the laws, right, or do they ?
As mentioned here a few times, if you feel it is unethical to us, or hunt near an attractant of any type when you hunt here in AB, then if you were invited on a hunt in Sask, then you would definitely not use a bait with the folks you hunt with there, right ? If you did, then ethics is not the issue, and you are just following the rules. And on the flip side, if the rules changed and we could bait here, (no need IMO) would we ? If you did, ethics plays no part. Your just a law abiding hunter, and good on you, hopefully we all are.

TBark

Well said....... I think you couldn't have put it any better...... I really believe if baiting was allowed in Alberta alot on here may change their tune..... JMHO.. I have land in Saskatchewan and do use baiting technique..... That being said alot of the old wise bucks never come into a bait and we get pictures on scrapes around the bait and never get these older bucks on camera at the baits...... Last year was a prime example..... The biggest buck we got pics of right on the bait was 150 class........ We set a camera on a scrape 80yds from the bait and got a 160 class that never actually came into the bait all season...... he was working the area and seems like he used the bait as a place to check for doe scent...... never comitted to actually feeding at the bait........... Touchy subject don't want to tick anyone off here but I have the privilage of living right on the border..So not much of a drive to get in very good whitetail country... I hunt my Sask land with a bow and love it........I would like to see a poll of who would hunt a bait in Saskatchewan if given the oppurtunity

Nikon

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Sled

Funnel areas are deadly....You bet... let the deer come to you........Example is The Battle river bottoms work really well as funell areas for Whitetails..... Had real good luck hunting the river bottoms

Nikon

I count on funnels in our area, fence lines are my favorite Anyone who has trouble in the South open country, change it up when the pressure is on... These jumpers are a crafty bunch, once they are disturbed, the mature animals wisen up quickly.. Second week of November, the whitetail push up into the ag and bed along fence lines where the grass is tall, ever wonder how these deer just appear in the fields at last light ?

I find the mature deer when pressured want to see for miles and head for the higher open country side in the middle of no where...

Good luck everyone, headed out to tip over a giant !! LOL

[Bearen09]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

X2

I was told I was spreading "false information"...well at least my so called "false information" err'd on the side of caution....but apparently I ruffled feathers and I was labelled a "so called expert" so I will follow the rules as I see fit and I know I will not get me into any "situations" with F&W and all the "true experts" who skirt the rules can find out the hard way.

LC

Lefty I do agree....

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Bearen09

Lefty I do agree....

I guess I was taking too much credit for being called an "expert"...

HAHA....OOPS my bad....in my rant on the other thread I likely took something the wrong way LOL......it happens

LC

[ctd]

The "ETHIC"s are not in reguards to if it is a fair hunt or not.
They are in reguards to what the law states. Thats where ethics come into play here.
An Ethical person will hunt within the laws and follow the rules and regulations.

[muzzleloader16]

Originally Posted by ctd

The "ETHIC"s are not in reguards to if it is a fair hunt or not.
They are in reguards to what the law states. Thats where ethics come into play here.
An Ethical person will hunt within the laws and follow the rules and regulations.

Exactly!

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by ctd

The "ETHIC"s are not in reguards to if it is a fair hunt or not.
They are in reguards to what the law states. Thats where ethics come into play here.
An Ethical person will hunt within the laws and follow the rules and regulations.

Well put....... I agree totally

Nikon

[Gary K]

I disagree to a certain extent.
I think alot of people on here would think thatit is unethical to hunt over bait, regardless of it is a legal or not!
Ethics is a personal thing.

EDIT: I do agree hunting within the law is ethical yes, but just saying it can still be considered unethical by some to hunt over bait, even if it is legal.

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Gary K

I disagree to a certain extent.
I think alot of people on here would think thatit is unethical to hunt over bait, regardless of it is a legal or not!
Ethics is a personal thing.

EDIT: I do agree hunting within the law is ethical yes, but just saying it can still be considered unethical by some to hunt over bait, even if it is legal.

This is all a matter of personal preference....... I'm sure we could get alot of different views on this board......Road hunting could be considered unethical or the use of a quad to hunt cutlines or this or that ........ Comes down to how each individual looks at it.... And yes I agree alot on here i bet do consider hunting over a bait unethical perhaps, til given the oppurtunity to try it .... I bet those that disagree have road hunted a time or to... Is that really fair chase? ....... JMHO

Nikon

[TBark]

I agree with Gary K, in disagreeing with ctd, to some point.
Although being an ethical hunter means staying within the laws. Does this mean if you do everything within the law and you are ethical ?
You can use your ethics to NOT do something within the law too.
You can view some actions within the law as unethical too, but are these just your opinions ? Do you need to justify your ethical decisions ?
Some examples..
Buying the 2 supp WT doe tags, but taking only one, or none. You decide based on #'s you see in the field. Or buying Under sub calf moose tag, and choosing not to take one, you pass on one based on seeing very few, or choosing to take one if you see many. You notice the grouse #'s a low, you finally get into a gagggle of grouse, looks to be 5 or even 6, do you shoot as many as you can, or just one or 2 ?
Some say you are obligated to take your animal based on SRD critter counts and that's how we manage our #'s here in AB, but sometimes you use your own ethics to make your decisions based on what you know and see in the field when you do your scouting or when you are on your hunts.

TBark

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

X2

Baiting is not the only way to get deer to frequent an area, use of scents is legal.....and now is the time to get them to start frequenting mock scapes etc.

LC

Use of scents is legal sure and not considered bait. When fishing areas with a bait ban, scents are verboten and considered bait. All we can do is obey the laws and not try to make sense of them or get too worked up about "Ethics".

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by TBark

I agree with Gary K, in disagreeing with ctd, to some point.
Although being an ethical hunter means staying within the laws. Does this mean if you do everything within the law and you are ethical ?
You can use your ethics to NOT do something within the law too.
You can view some actions within the law as unethical too, but are these just your opinions ? Do you need to justify your ethical decisions ?
Some examples..
Buying the 2 supp WT doe tags, but taking only one, or none. You decide based on #'s you see in the field. Or buying Under sub calf moose tag, and choosing not to take one, you pass on one based on seeing very few, or choosing to take one if you see many. You notice the grouse #'s a low, you finally get into a gagggle of grouse, looks to be 5 or even 6, do you shoot as many as you can, or just one or 2 ?
Some say you are obligated to take your animal based on SRD critter counts and that's how we manage our #'s here in AB, but sometimes you use your own ethics to make your decisions based on what you know and see in the field when you do your scouting or when you are on your hunts.

TBark

You are exactly right. Ethics is much more then complying with the law.
I know single people who take three or more animals a year, legally.

While others who can't afford to spend days or weeks hunting, but for whom that meat would make a huge difference can't even find one animal to harvest. Mostly because the easy to find animals have already been taken by a hunter with time and money to burn.

Just because the law allows a person to take more then they need does not make it an okay thing to do.
I realize that many such folks share their take, and that is all well and good.
But maybe a thought for those who can't afford to hunt for weeks at a time would be in order.

[Acesneights]

Set out,use,or employ bait for the PURPOSE OF HUNTING. That means that if you aren't hunting and you want to put out bait to take photographs that you are not breaking a law. However do know that in putting out bait you are actually harming the wildlife because with foreign food sources a deers stomach needs time to get used to the type of food which takes a lot of energy. Deer that are fed anything other than what they have been regularly eating majority of them will die if you stop feeding them especially the winter months.Your just better of not baiting for any purpose.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

You are exactly right. Ethics is much more then complying with the law.
I know single people who take three or more animals a year, legally.

While others who can't afford to spend days or weeks hunting, but for whom that meat would make a huge difference can't even find one animal to harvest. Mostly because the easy to find animals have already been taken by a hunter with time and money to burn.

Just because the law allows a person to take more then they need does not make it an okay thing to do.
I realize that many such folks share their take, and that is all well and good.
But maybe a thought for those who can't afford to hunt for weeks at a time would be in order.

I give my excess to people that can't get out.

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by NIKON

I disagree with your statement , From what i understand The fish and wildlife in the Lloydminster area Alberta side were using baiting techniques to attract deer for a cull......... They already knew the disease was there and were using baiting to cull the deer in various areas..... So My arguement was if they were trying to prevent the spread of cwd why were they using baiting techniques to congragate deer with possible cwd into one area..... Thus possibly spreading the disease to healthy deer that may have escaped the cull ........ It made absolutely no sense to me and the cull techniques were questionable..... There is no way they were 100 percent effective in culling every deer coming to their bait sites............ The legislation to protect our wildlife from disease .......... hmmmmm!....... Just my thoughts..... We want to talk about ethical hunting ?........ They were chasing deer around the Lloydminster area with helicopters...Shooting them from a chopper from what I understand.. Where is the ethics in that?............

WOW Has this thread got way off topic.

When you are performing a CULL the objective is to kill as many deer as possible with the least amount of effort. It is not a "sporting event". The helicopter shoots were the best way to kill lots of deer.

The purpose of the cull was not to try and kill CWD deer. (though if some were killed that was a good thing) but to reduce deer densities to slow the spread of CWD.

And this all has nothing to do with the original question about setting out bait (salt block)

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by duffy4

WOW Has this thread got way off topic.

When you are performing a CULL the objective is to kill as many deer as possible with the least amount of effort. It is not a "sporting event". The helicopter shoots were the best way to kill lots of deer.

The purpose of the cull was not to try and kill CWD deer. (though if some were killed that was a good thing) but to reduce deer densities to slow the spread of CWD.

And this all has nothing to do with the original question about setting out bait (salt block)

Duffy

Way off topic ?....... I was responding to this comment re spreading cwd by baiting......
The main intent behind the No Baiting Legislation is to protect our wildlife from the possibility of increased disease transmission due to concentrating wildlife to a common place. Think CWD....

The fish and game were baiting to cull but by doing so they were possibly spreading more disease....Were they stopping the disease or spreading it?....It was a hotspot for cwd and by concentrating cwd deer into an area with healthy deer all feeding off the same bait they were possibly spreadin cwd to healthy deer..... There is no way the deer cull was 100 percent affective
Helicopters were the best way of killing deer..... You are so wrong!..... There isn't anything ethical about that....... It was a very disturbing way of thinning deer populations... Unless you lived here and seen your favorite hunting areas completely wiped out it was very disturbing...Watch a helicopter fly over your yard with a string of 5 deer hanging from it..... ... Have they slowed cwd?...... doubt it....... Was it always there ... don't know...... Should the hunters in the area been allowed to harvest the deer and thin the populations ...... Probably and the meat could have been used to feed the less fortunate after the heads were tested rather then bury the carcasses in big pits....... The whole thing seemed so political..... it's like they know they couldn't stop it but they could say they did there effort to try and stop it at the border...... Tap root the problem.... Elk farms?...... Have they stopped elk farming?...... Nop....... All politics...... Until they stop elk farming they may never stop cwd....... Am I ticked off..... ubetcha.... til you live here and seen it for yourself it was very disturbing.....

Nikon

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by pesky672

I give my excess to people that can't get out.

That is good of you. For some people it is a much appreciated gift.
For others it may mean that they don't get the opportunity to enjoy providing for themselves.

I can't say it is the case where you hunt. However, I do know it is the case for many less fortunate hunters.
People who can not afford the cost of fuel and equipment needed to compete with today's hunters.

But that is just one example of things hunters do that although legal, may be not the best practice.
Baiting is yet another, where such baiting makes it easier for poachers to claim innocence and driving the roads in search of game is yet another.

All legal activities that greatly assist those who have no regard for the law, and thus no regard for other people.