New info on Parkland shooting

[markg]

It would seem that law enforcement was one site as soon as the shooter began killing students but did not engage the murder. Fast forward on the video to about 7 minutes for a discussion on this topic.

Please note that I support Law enforcement and admire what good cops do protecting society.

https://youtu.be/dYm_biUQKmA

[bobalong]

Law enforcement failed on pretty well every level, they were to cowardice to do their job, so no surprise they are to cowardice to admit to it. In this case all the anti-gun radical protests like most are based on a big lie.

[FishOutOfWater]

It's been known for 4 weeks that Deputy Scott Peterson was on school grounds and failed to engage the shooter, and that 3 Broward County Sheriffs arrived within 4 minutes but allowed the rampage to continue for another 3 minutes until officers from another county showed up and stormed the place.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=339934

Coward... Peterson resigned almost immediately, and is probably in hiding.

[.257Weatherby]

I think the blame game is doing pretty well already myself.
I just hope that when the time comes again the shooter shoots himself/herself first.
Rob

[Newview01]

The failure was on so many different levels.

Obama Era Discipline Law Allowed Parkland Student to Skirt Law Enforcement
https://www.usnews.com/news/educatio...kland-shooting

Parkland Shooter Revealed Gory Fantasies to Therapist Years Earlier
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...204450699.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...how/349716002/

PARKLAND, Fla. — Long before authorities accused Nikolas Cruz of killing 17 people at his former high school in less than five minutes, state social workers, mental health counselors, school administrators, police and the FBI received warnings about his declining mental state and penchant for violence.

[58thecat]

Here we go boys, ramp it up again, why not? It's Friday.....

[ReconWilly]

Oh was there ANOTHER shooting?...

Anyone else noticing a pattern?

Maybe i just need to upgrade from tinfoil to checker plate...

[Dick284]

[Gray Wolf]

Sadly, some people here just can't get enough of this crap.

The Feeding Frenzy continues

[brohymn2]

Originally Posted by FishOutOfWater

It's been known for 4 weeks that Deputy Scott Peterson was on school grounds and failed to engage the shooter, and that 3 Broward County Sheriffs arrived within 4 minutes but allowed the rampage to continue for another 3 minutes until officers from another county showed up and stormed the place.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=339934

Coward... Peterson resigned almost immediately, and is probably in hiding.

Please enlighten us with your extensive law enforcement/military backround which would lead you to believe you are entitled to some form of an opinion on what constitutes a coward in a situation such as this?

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[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by brohymn2

Please enlighten us with your extensive law enforcement/military backround which would lead you to believe you are entitled to some form of an opinion on what constitutes a coward in a situation such as this?

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Yep you about summer it up. It’s always easy for the arm chair quarterbacks to sit back and criticize, believing they better then everyone else despite never having been in any situation even close to what that deputy endured. Oh but you are a cop you knew what you were getting into you say, well last I checked part of law enforcement training wasn’t sending recruits into a actual life or death situation so until you are in it hold judgement. Mistakes were made true but nobody starts their shift expecting to go into a living hell like that. Which is ironic because when police train for situations like that the emerald public is in an outcry because the police are being militarized blah blah blah.

[FishOutOfWater]

Originally Posted by brohymn2

Please enlighten us with your extensive law enforcement/military backround which would lead you to believe you are entitled to some form of an opinion on what constitutes a coward in a situation such as this?

I don't need to have military or law enforcement experience to know what a coward is, nor for having the opinion I do.
Virtue signalling doesn't do you, nor any service you may have provided to our country, any favors.

cow·ard
ˈkou(ə)rd - noun

1. a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.
synonyms: weakling, milksop, namby-pamby, mouse;

[270person]

Originally Posted by brohymn2

Please enlighten us with your extensive law enforcement/military backround which would lead you to believe you are entitled to some form of an opinion on what constitutes a coward in a situation such as this?

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When you have a tool of a president saying virtually the same thing, even that he'd have stopped him if he'd been there, it breeds these sorts of sentiments.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by FishOutOfWater

I don't need to have military or law enforcement experience to know what a coward is, nor for having the opinion I do.
Virtue signalling doesn't do you, nor any service you may have provided to our country, any favors.

X2

[brohymn2]

So I guess we're dealing with guys who watched the mighty ducks once and now feel you can call connor McDavid an idiot for making a bad pass. Not requiring knowledge of the situation and feeling you can make a callous and ignorant statement about someone in law enforcement's making a decision based on a situation you know nothing about leads me to believe you are in some way incompetent.

Before we get into this since everyone is experts I will appreciate a break down about what all the mamby pambys would have done.

First the situation. The deputy is 54 if I recall. This would lead my to believe he has years apon years of law enforcement experience. Next you can see is a carrying a sidearm and I'm guessing a standard load of magazines which I have no clue may be, but for arguements sake he has 40 rounds on his belt and 10 rounds in his firearms. Next you would notice he is not visually in peak physical shapefrom his body composition. The media has not made a point that he had military/swat/special forces training that would allow him to take down a building hiding a gunman.

Gunman had an ar15 and I dont know how much ammo but I'm guessing more than one 30 ed magazine

Now how many people know what an ar15 sounds like in a building where the sound echoes of everything. Turns out it's somewhat hard to pick out how many gunmen there were in the school probably to the point that running in with guns blazing against 2 guys with semiautomatic. Probably won't work too good. Next point, he does decide to run in guns blazing "those wanna be men will talk about this for years on AO" what happens when partially due to stress arousal and poor physical condition he suffers from a combat stress reaction and "gos into the black". Training will kick in that this point right? Oh wait. He's just a beat cop not Jackie chan. So now what happens when when he runs in and empties his magazine grazing 1 of the many possible gunmen and killing 9 kids by accident. Could definitely happen.now the gun man is still alive and kills the deputy. Deputy's family has lost its father(I'm glad you took his family into account) and the family has to live with the shame of the blood of 9 school children on the hands of their father.

Ok so what if he kills the gunman but kills 2 kids. No one here wants to live with something like that and if you think being a hero is worth it I'm very happy your not police or military

There were definitely a million other things taken into account but you know what he did. Cordoned the area and stood his ground


The only coward are the sheriff who chose to not stand behind him

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[bobalong]

Originally Posted by brohymn2

So I guess we're dealing with guys who watched the mighty ducks once and now feel you can call connor McDavid an idiot for making a bad pass. Not requiring knowledge of the situation and feeling you can make a callous and ignorant statement about someone in law enforcement's making a decision based on a situation you know nothing about leads me to believe you are in some way incompetent.

Before we get into this since everyone is experts I will appreciate a break down about what all the mamby pambys would have done.

First the situation. The deputy is 54 if I recall. This would lead my to believe he has years apon years of law enforcement experience. Next you can see is a carrying a sidearm and I'm guessing a standard load of magazines which I have no clue may be, but for arguements sake he has 40 rounds on his belt and 10 rounds in his firearms. Next you would notice he is not visually in peak physical shapefrom his body composition. The media has not made a point that he had military/swat/special forces training that would allow him to take down a building hiding a gunman.

Gunman had an ar15 and I dont know how much ammo but I'm guessing more than one 30 ed magazine

Now how many people know what an ar15 sounds like in a building where the sound echoes of everything. Turns out it's somewhat hard to pick out how many gunmen there were in the school probably to the point that running in with guns blazing against 2 guys with semiautomatic. Probably won't work too good. Next point, he does decide to run in guns blazing "those wanna be men will talk about this for years on AO" what happens when partially due to stress arousal and poor physical condition he suffers from a combat stress reaction and "gos into the black". Training will kick in that this point right? Oh wait. He's just a beat cop not Jackie chan. So now what happens when when he runs in and empties his magazine grazing 1 of the many possible gunmen and killing 9 kids by accident. Could definitely happen.now the gun man is still alive and kills the deputy. Deputy's family has lost its father(I'm glad you took his family into account) and the family has to live with the shame of the blood of 9 school children on the hands of their father.

Ok so what if he kills the gunman but kills 2 kids. No one here wants to live with something like that and if you think being a hero is worth it I'm very happy your not police or military

There were definitely a million other things taken into account but you know what he did. Cordoned the area and stood his ground


The only coward are the sheriff who chose to not stand behind him

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You really should try and keep up with what happened. It has been reported numerous times. These guards are specifically trained for school shootings. Protocol is if gunfire is reported to you or heard you are to assume that their is active shooter in the school and you approach the shooter ASP THAT IS SPECIFICALLY WHAT THEIR JOB IS! If you had been keeping up you would also know that after a few minutes there were 4 armed men that all chose to wait and hide. 4 MEN NOT 1.
Assuming he may shoot a kid is a really lame argument, following that delusional thought you are suggesting every law enforcement person should wait and hide outside until the shooter has decided to stop killing children, run out of ammo, or he shoots himself.

[ctd]

Originally Posted by bobalong

You really should try and keep up with what happened. It has been reported numerous times. These guards are specifically trained for school shootings. Protocol is if gunfire is reported to you or heard you are to assume that their is active shooter in the school and you approach the shooter ASP THAT IS SPECIFICALLY WHAT THEIR JOB IS! If you had been keeping up you would also know that after a few minutes there were 4 armed men that all chose to wait and hide. 4 MEN NOT 1.
Assuming he may shoot a kid is a really lame argument, following that delusional thought you are suggesting every law enforcement person should wait and hide outside until the shooter has decided to stop killing children, run out of ammo, or he shoots himself.

You might be incorrect that they are trained to in effect storm the building.

Having a National plan, passing it on, having it implemented is not a over night thing.
The President can order that all Police Forces will implement a "storm the school hostage program" all they want.

Here is the reality. Not every force has the assets or the Policy capability in place to carry out the direction from the President over night. Providing a framework of paperwork to implement such a program is easy to do. Implementing this framework to its end is the difficult part.

It is still up in the air as to what type of training these Sheriffs have received.
When we think of Police up here we think of the RCMP maybe City Police.

Down their they have variety of different levels of Policing Depending on where they are. They have Town, County and State Sheriffs. They also have County Police, City Police, Town Police. They have State Troopers.

Once force might be highly trained while another lesser trained.
Individual Policys of one force might be different then another.

Again we need to go back to the what level of training did these Officers have what is their departments policy and what were their orders at the time.

Clearly in the one of the videos posted it shows two Officers moving towards a concrete wall which possibly is an entrance to the school One Officer is seen standing what appears to be guard of this entrance, it is not clear what the other one is doing as they go behind the wall.

What is your break down of this video?

[Jimvinny]

Originally Posted by ctd

You might be incorrect that they are trained to in effect storm the building.

Having a National plan, passing it on, having it implemented is not a over night thing.
The President can order that all Police Forces will implement a "storm the school hostage program" all they want.

Here is the reality. Not every force has the assets or the Policy capability in place to carry out the direction from the President over night. Providing a framework of paperwork to implement such a program is easy to do. Implementing this framework to its end is the difficult part.

It is still up in the air as to what type of training these Sheriffs have received.
When we think of Police up here we think of the RCMP maybe City Police.

Down their they have variety of different levels of Policing Depending on where they are. They have Town, County and State Sheriffs. They also have County Police, City Police, Town Police. They have State Troopers.

Once force might be highly trained while another lesser trained.
Individual Policys of one force might be different then another.

Again we need to go back to the what level of training did these Officers have what is their departments policy and what were their orders at the time.

Clearly in the one of the videos posted it shows two Officers moving towards a concrete wall which possibly is an entrance to the school One Officer is seen standing what appears to be guard of this entrance, it is not clear what the other one is doing as they go behind the wall.

What is your break down of this video?

It's not a "National Plan." The Broward County regulations state the officers are to immediately seek to engage the shooter. It was part of his duties to at least attempt to find and try to stop the shooter. Instead, he hid. So no, Bobalong isn't incorrect. And seeing as you are clearly not up to date on the details surrounding this incident, you may wish to reconsider voicing your opinion.

[ctd]

Have you got a copy you can post of the Broward Countys Regulations. Can you also add to that the training implementation of such a Regulation. Who if all were Aware of or trained for this Regulation.
I have searched and cannot come up with any of the above.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/fl...ine/index.html

Interesting time of events.

[Jimvinny]

Originally Posted by ctd

Have you got a copy you can post of the Broward Countys Regulations. Can you also add to that the training implementation of such a Regulation. Who if all were Aware of or trained for this Regulation.
I have searched and cannot come up with any of the above.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/fl...ine/index.html

Interesting time of events.

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...ress%20release

https://www.judicialwatch.org/docume...ooting-031418/

[britman101]

Part of the problem here as the evidence comes out is that it was like it or not the officer's job and duty to protect the kids and to disarm the shooter. I do not know the officer's personal situation or state of mind at that point of time, but he screwed up and did not do the right things and as a result lives were lost.
In my mind the proper authorities should own up to the mistakes that were made, and take measures to insure they will not happen in the future.

[ctd]

Originally Posted by Jimvinny

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...ress%20release

https://www.judicialwatch.org/docume...ooting-031418/

These are not policy of the department. These are bits of information of the the policy.
In order to fully understand the policy one must read the entire policy to get a full picture of the entire framework of it.
Plus one needs to know the implementation of that policy.
You also need to read any policies previous to and after this one. Along with any supporting ones.

It's simple to pull phrases out of a policy and say you did it wrong. Or you did it right.
The same as our firearms laws. If you pull bits here and there out of it you can say what ever you want and confuse the while situation.

If you read the link I posted previous I think the response was confusing.
A fire alarm possible firecrackers set off on the football field. Maybe shots fired out of Bldg 1200. Which is 3 stories high.
That whole school is pretty large.

I think the secondary responding Officers had a better idea of what was happening and where to go due to being dispatched to the scene from 911 calls. The the Intial Resource Officer may not have that information.

You and I are never going to see eye to eye on this.
I want to see full documents before I make up my mind either way. I think that is the only way to be fair on this matter.

[brohymn2]

Originally Posted by bobalong

You really should try and keep up with what happened. It has been reported numerous times. These guards are specifically trained for school shootings. Protocol is if gunfire is reported to you or heard you are to assume that their is active shooter in the school and you approach the shooter ASP THAT IS SPECIFICALLY WHAT THEIR JOB IS! If you had been keeping up you would also know that after a few minutes there were 4 armed men that all chose to wait and hide. 4 MEN NOT 1.
Assuming he may shoot a kid is a really lame argument, following that delusional thought you are suggesting every law enforcement person should wait and hide outside until the shooter has decided to stop killing children, run out of ammo, or he shoots himself.

So what your saying is if he got to the door and there was an amount of gun fire being echoed that you couldn't discern how many gunmen there were, you "bobalong" would run in guns blazing even though it most likely would be a suicide mission, and I dont care what you think you know about shooting but unless you have significant time shooting in a kill house I can guarantee shooting a bystander is a very good possibility. So yes 4 men only armed with sidearms against a man with a semiautomatic rifle. At one time (this I'm sure has gotten better with advancement of tactics) to do a frontal assault on a trench was 3 to 1. Fighting in a building was 10 to 1. Does the swat send 1 in at a time. Possibly Shooting a kid is hardly lame, actually it is completely legitimate. The fact of the matter is if you are not doing some form of a tactical analysis in this situation it would lead me to believe you are either a civilian who doesn't have a clue but probably walks around puffing out your chest telling people they are cowards for situations you were thousands of miles away from or maybe your a cop but that somewhat scares me as you seem to think we are in the wild west

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[brohymn2]

And btw suicide is not what they are paid for and neither is getting into situation above training, experience, and paygrade... or am I wrong??

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[ctd]

Until facts of the exact Policys and related Policys are shown, facts of the training provided, facts of the situation, facts of response I can't say for sure if the Officer (s) responded properly of not.

We know how the response went. We know how the situation went. That is all.
We don't know anything else in the actual situation, training and After action review.

Show me Policys and training certifications. Then and only then I will arrive at a verdict in my opinion.

[roper1]

I'm surprised anyone supports the cowards, shouldn't sign up if you think you couldn't at least try to engage an active shooter, especially in a school. Our children are most precious, nothing compares!

Watch the parliament shooting, many, many, cops running toward the shooter, handguns drawn, him with a long gun.

They were going to defend politicians, of all people........

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by brohymn2

So what your saying is if he got to the door and there was an amount of gun fire being echoed that you couldn't discern how many gunmen there were, you "bobalong" would run in guns blazing even though it most likely would be a suicide mission, and I dont care what you think you know about shooting but unless you have significant time shooting in a kill house I can guarantee shooting a bystander is a very good possibility. So yes 4 men only armed with sidearms against a man with a semiautomatic rifle. At one time (this I'm sure has gotten better with advancement of tactics) to do a frontal assault on a trench was 3 to 1. Fighting in a building was 10 to 1. Does the swat send 1 in at a time. Possibly Shooting a kid is hardly lame, actually it is completely legitimate. The fact of the matter is if you are not doing some form of a tactical analysis in this situation it would lead me to believe you are either a civilian who doesn't have a clue but probably walks around puffing out your chest telling people they are cowards for situations you were thousands of miles away from or maybe your a cop but that somewhat scares me as you seem to think we are in the wild west

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A little more catch up for you, and there are many more but you appear to support cowardice behavior so you will most likely ignore these as well..

“That’s exactly what we’re examining,” Sheriff Israel said, noting that active shooter protocols require confronting suspects as quickly as possible. “You don’t wait for SWAT, you get in, and you push toward the shooter.”

Deputy Peterson, who has been in law enforcement for more than 30 years, could not be reached for comment, and no one answered the door at his home in neighboring Palm Beach County.

The shooting at Columbine High School in 1999 fundamentally changed police protocol amid fears that a gunman or gunmen equipped with semiautomatic weapons would be capable of killing dozens of people in a matter of moments. Officers, their patrol cars now stocked with supplies like rifles, ballistic helmets and trauma care kits, are now trained to seek gunmen urgently, even if they have no backup or only limited information.

[calgarychef]

This all boils down to the idea that "when good men do nothing, evil makes its way." Heroes step in and cowards run away.

[ReconWilly]

Sheriff Scott Israel's real face...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E46Kj10kLIs

[brohymn2]

That's fine. I guess if you guys know what it's like to be in a situation like that from years of experience in dealing with life and death situations then what do i know. But please enlighten us how selling insurance or being chef has put you in a tough situation where you can even think to mention a word of this. In my opinion attacking someone who was in the thick of terrible situation and made a choice makes you the coward. I could care less if you disagree with me but you guys are making joke of yourselves and frankly I find it embarrassing for sportsmen to act like this.

And as for the sheriff, he is a disgrace in terms of leadership. He should of had his deputy's back unless it was proven him acting like that directly caused the death of children.

Now if you are either a law enforcement, or a combat arms soldier who has been in a leadership role in a combat environment and you disagree with me that is completely fine and I can accept your opinion. Anyone else is ignorant and like I said earlier an embarrassment.

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