UCP approves policy to create private health-care system in Alberta

[dgrimard]

Health care in Canada is already private. Doctors just bill the government instead of the individual. We all pay in higher taxes for the people the stub their toe and go to emergency.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Nope. Youre right. It doesnt always work out that way

But id rather be broke knowing i did everything possible

And having a health care system run by the government isnt enough. The option for private care has to be available

Yeah I dunno. I can understand your logic but the world of black and white is only an illusion.

My oldest was born real early. Involved almost 3 months in a NICU, there was significant brain bleeds, congenital heart defect and a whole slew of other good times mixed in. Afterwards we met a couple from Philly that had a child that experienced and was still experiencing alot of similar symptoms. The heart defect of their child isn't as serious. Anyways out of curiosity I asked about their care and much like mine it was filled with positives and admiration of the staff at the hospitals. One big difference though! And its a big one. They were over 4 million into it. Insurance covered about 3 million and they were left with about a million to find themselves. They were able to through fundraising at their church and community.

Guess how much I was out? Probably about $300 in parking at the hospital until I was given a pass. And probably another $1000 in parking at the glenrose. Oh and I had to miss a bunch if time from work but I don't count potential income cause you never know.

I will always stand for a public system. Private is just a rich man's way of making their own world better instead of trying to bring everyone up together.

That being said my experience with my grandmother was an absolute nightmare. So I can completely understand how people want better! Lets get better together though!

[sns2]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Yeah I dunno. I can understand your logic but the world of black and white is only an illusion.

My oldest was born real early. Involved almost 3 months in a NICU, there was significant brain bleeds, congenital heart defect and a whole slew of other good times mixed in. Afterwards we met a couple from Philly that had a child that experienced and was still experiencing alot of similar symptoms. The heart defect of their child isn't as serious. Anyways out of curiosity I asked about their care and much like mine it was filled with positives and admiration of the staff at the hospitals. One big difference though! And its a big one. They were over 4 million into it. Insurance covered about 3 million and they were left with about a million to find themselves. They were able to through fundraising at their church and community.

Guess how much I was out? Probably about $300 in parking at the hospital until I was given a pass. And probably another $1000 in parking at the glenrose. Oh and I had to miss a bunch if time from work but I don't count potential income cause you never know.

I will always stand for a public system. Private is just a rich man's way of making their own world better instead of trying to bring everyone up together.

That being said my experience with my grandmother was an absolute nightmare. So I can completely understand how people want better! Lets get better together though!

But Esox, our healthcare is just a sacred cow...

Ya right.

All the Trumpians want what the US has.

Excuse me while I go puke.

[270person]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Its true

Every goddamn one of them

So having money means you get to jump queue. Which in turn bumps someone else with less coin down the line. Interesting concept.

My main question is, "who foots the bill to buy more, (let's say mri machines), so those with money can run to the front of the line?" Are those private practises purchasing them or more likely, will they be purchased by the tax payers, including those who can't afford to jump queue, so those that can afford it, can jump to the front?

Why can't the inefficiencies just be identified, and more of the backlogged equipment be purchased? So all can get an MRI in a reasonable amount of time?

Sorry but I don't think having money makes your family more important than mine. There's always lots of airplanes flying south a person can get on if they wish to pay to get things done sooner. 2 tier doesn't have to happen here. It just creates second tier/second rate users and when it comes to healthcare and education theres no room for business class and coach. When it comes to kids, one is not more important than the other. They all deserve the same quality of healthcare and that should be the very best available.

[HVA7mm]

I'm not really sure what public/private healthcare will look like (if it ever comes to fruition), or what percentage/types of healthcare will be allowed to go private, but don't private facilities already exist? I knew that some surgeries are performed in private surgical clinics in Alberta already, but was surprised at how many are approved by the CPSA in Non-Hospital Surgical Facilities. In these facilities many of the non-elective surgeries are covered by AHS, however surgical facility fees, anesthesiology and in some cases pathology are paid for by the individual. I'm not sure but I think that some of these fees are covered by private health insurance for those who have it.

http://cpsa.ca/wp-content/uploads/20...s_for_NHSF.pdf

I definitely don't want to see for-profit private healthcare as the dominant factor, but for those that are willing to pay for the surgery here in Alberta vs going to the US or elsewhere, let them fill their boots. Maybe it will reduce wait times in the public system here, maybe not. Maybe it will create more employment, maybe not. Maybe more deaths will be prevented, maybe not.

It's tough to know what the answer is whilst avoiding going too far down the rabbit hole, but for the amount of dollars that are sunk into healthcare in Alberta, and the rest of Canada for that matter, I think that the service could and should be much better. It doesn't seem to matter how many "expert panels" and "think tanks" are created, things never change for the better and the healthcare "business" continues to grow, as do the wait times. This has very little to do with the physicians or front line employees, but by the policy makers themselves.

Maybe COVID will kill enough people off that we won't have to worry about wait times any more. Who knows?

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Yeah I dunno. I can understand your logic but the world of black and white is only an illusion.

My oldest was born real early. Involved almost 3 months in a NICU, there was significant brain bleeds, congenital heart defect and a whole slew of other good times mixed in. Afterwards we met a couple from Philly that had a child that experienced and was still experiencing alot of similar symptoms. The heart defect of their child isn't as serious. Anyways out of curiosity I asked about their care and much like mine it was filled with positives and admiration of the staff at the hospitals. One big difference though! And its a big one. They were over 4 million into it. Insurance covered about 3 million and they were left with about a million to find themselves. They were able to through fundraising at their church and community.

Guess how much I was out? Probably about $300 in parking at the hospital until I was given a pass. And probably another $1000 in parking at the glenrose. Oh and I had to miss a bunch if time from work but I don't count potential income cause you never know.

I will always stand for a public system. Private is just a rich man's way of making their own world better instead of trying to bring everyone up together.

That being said my experience with my grandmother was an absolute nightmare. So I can completely understand how people want better! Lets get better together though!

It would be nice if we could make our system work for all, problem is how do we do that?

We don't make the decisions, politicians do. So as long as the majority vote for the likes of JT and JK, nothing will get better.

At least a two tier system would offer some hope, although I suspect it would be far less then many think it would be.

$1,000 doesn't pay for much in the health care field.

My wife came from the USA. You won't hear her praising their system no matter how long our wait times may be.
But she has made it clear, if she is ever unable to get treatment she may need here, she will go south without hesitation.

And she has the money to pay for it.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by 270person

So having money means you get to jump queue. Which in turn bumps someone else with less coin down the line. Interesting concept.

My main question is, "who foots the bill to buy more, (let's say mri machines), so those with money can run to the front of the line?" Are those private practises purchasing them or more likely, will they be purchased by the tax payers, including those who can't afford to jump queue, so those that can afford it, can jump to the front?

Why can't the inefficiencies just be identified, and more of the backlogged equipment be purchased? So all can get an MRI in a reasonable amount of time?

Sorry but I don't think having money makes your family more important than mine. There's always lots of airplanes flying south a person can get on if they wish to pay to get things done sooner. 2 tier doesn't have to happen here. It just creates second tier/second rate users and when it comes to healthcare and education theres no room for business class and coach. When it comes to kids, one is not more important than the other. They all deserve the same quality of healthcare and that should be the very best available.

Exactly.

[Pathfinder76]

What’s next? Privatization of dental care?

[Bergerboy]

Personally I like the idea of not having my tax dollars pay for healthcare. If we all had our taxes reduced and instead purchased healthcare insurance it would be more appropriate loading to the users. If you choose to have a large family then you pay more than those with less people in the house.

[zabbo]

As I suspected, this conversation has slipped into the polarized situation of another thread. No real surprises. All the usual suspects, still on the same side.

Omega50 has a quote of Churchills at the bottom of his posts:

The inherent vice of capitalism, is the unequal sharing of blessings.
The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

Britain's Iron Lady, Thatcher had another that may be appropriate here:

Socialism works great; till you run out of other peoples money.

No doubt some people here will jump all over these comments and call me a cold, heartless b@#%@#$, but that is not at all the truth.

I have no problem lending a helping hand to someone having a tough go of it. However, like all government social programs the line gets blurred very quickly and politicians cave immediately when the media shines the spot light on a sob story case that "almost" qualifies for some benefit. Next week the bar is lowered and the week after someone else "almost" made the cut and the bar drops again.

In the end the point is we cannot be all things for all people. I have heard time and again, how everybody is "equal". The reality is, in my view, that comment is totally artificial. Some are tall, some short, some thin, some not so much, some ambitious and driven, some flat out lazy. We can feed everybody, but how is it reasonable that the lazy person still eats the finest steak and drinks the best of wine like the ambitious?

Once again, flame on!

[trigger7mm]

One of the wealthiest men I’ve ever known told me once, to stay away from government involvement at all costs. Anytime they get involved in anything it is nothing but money down the drain.

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by 270person

So having money means you get to jump queue. Which in turn bumps someone else with less coin down the line. Interesting concept.

My main question is, "who foots the bill to buy more, (let's say mri machines), so those with money can run to the front of the line?" Are those private practises purchasing them or more likely, will they be purchased by the tax payers, including those who can't afford to jump queue, so those that can afford it, can jump to the front?

Why can't the inefficiencies just be identified, and more of the backlogged equipment be purchased? So all can get an MRI in a reasonable amount of time?

Sorry but I don't think having money makes your family more important than mine. There's always lots of airplanes flying south a person can get on if they wish to pay to get things done sooner. 2 tier doesn't have to happen here. It just creates second tier/second rate users and when it comes to healthcare and education theres no room for business class and coach. When it comes to kids, one is not more important than the other. They all deserve the same quality of healthcare and that should be the very best available.

Who pays for the MRI machines in a private clinic in Alberta now? I assumed since the clinic was private, that private money was used to purchase the equipment?

Money doesn’t make anyone’s family more important. Let’s say you need a knee replacement, probably. You’re 45 years old. Why should you have to wait 4 -6 months for an MRI, to determine that yes you actually need a knee replacement. Now that it’s confirmed, you get to wait inline to get your surgery.

So you’ve been off work for a year now, your family income has suffered, you haven’t paid much tax, because you haven’t been working. You’ve gained 30 - 40 pounds because you’re not moving around because it’s too painful, and you don’t really have anything else to do but sit and eat.
Mentally you’re not in a good place, you used to be fit, active, and provide for your family. Now you’re overweight, relying on your wife to pay the bills, you can’t play with your kids the way you used to.

But you’ve waited and it’s your turn! Except it’s not, your surgery is bumped because they need the room for someone more important. But it eventually gets done.

You’re rehab is slower, because by this time you’ve gained 40 pounds. But all in all after 2 years you’re back to work contributing again! And you got your surgery for free!

I did some quick searching and it looks like it would cost $25 - 30000, to replace a knee in Canada. If I was in those shoes I’d likely pay it. But we don’t have that option, without more travel, more expense, more hurdles.

I don’t buy into this notion that if the system could just be perfect then everything would be ok, and if not we all have to suffer equally.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

It’s ranked #30 and probably costs #1

Nope.

https://www.businessinsider.com/pers...-ranked-2019-3

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by trigger7mm

One of the wealthiest men I’ve ever known told me once, to stay away from government involvement at all costs. Anytime they get involved in anything it is nothing but money down the drain.

Its natural for wealthy business people to have at opinion.

As for the rest of us we need to work together.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by chuck

What’s next? Privatization of dental care?

Should be universal dental and pharma care.

[sns2]

Bloody craziness here. We want to rush to US style healthcare, when their citizens & their gov't pay infinitely more than us.

I am in favor of emulating the most effective nations in Europe though. Just not the US.

But, if we all felt the same way we would be robots not people.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by chuck

What’s next? Privatization of dental care?

hey look whos back.....



... and here we go...!

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by sns2

Should be universal dental and pharma care.

Two more bottomless money pits! But then again, other peoples money.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by sns2

Should be universal dental and pharma care.

With the percentage of our GDP/taxes (nearly 12% of GDP around $244 billion) going towards healthcare in this country, this is absolutely doable. The crux of the problem is that universal health is a huge business that absolutely nobody in government is willing to tackle in the name of efficiency. The public cries about poor service, increased wait times, people dying etc. What does the GOC (and provincial government) do, throw more money into the pit, where nothing actually improves it just costs the taxpayers more. The same could be said of Aboriginal Affairs or whatever it is called now.

As with all things government the cost is not the issue. The issues are the wasting of tax payer money/resources, inefficiencies, lack of oversight/accountability, and no willingness to make any tangible changes.

Have you ever sat back and actually looked at the Cabinet of Canada, what the portfolios are and then looked at the credentials of each minister?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_Canada

[Thebest]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Personally I like the idea of not having my tax dollars pay for healthcare. If we all had our taxes reduced and instead purchased healthcare insurance it would be more appropriate loading to the users. If you choose to have a large family then you pay more than those with less people in the house.

This sounds very American, support your own and screw everyone else in the province...…. Right...…..

Not a single person on this sub can explain how Canadian healthcare works and you think that getting rid of this will lower your taxes......clueless oil field mentality

[Thebest]

Originally Posted by dgrimard

Health care in Canada is already private. Doctors just bill the government instead of the individual. We all pay in higher taxes for the people the stub their toe and go to emergency.

Not true and its clear you also have no clue how Canadian healthcare works

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Thebest

Capitalist .ick not surprising to see an attitude like this on an Alberta forum, think about everyone else in this province you selfish .ick

Enjoy your short stay. LOL. Have fun in Venezuela comrade.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

With the percentage of our GDP/taxes (nearly 12% of GDP around $244 billion) going towards healthcare in this country, this is absolutely doable. The crux of the problem is that universal health is a huge business that absolutely nobody in government is willing to tackle in the name of efficiency. The public cries about poor service, increased wait times, people dying etc. What does the GOC (and provincial government) do, throw more money into the pit, where nothing actually improves it just costs the taxpayers more. The same could be said of Aboriginal Affairs or whatever it is called now.

As with all things government the cost is not the issue. The issues are the wasting of tax payer money/resources, inefficiencies, lack of oversight/accountability, and no willingness to make any tangible changes.

Have you ever sat back and actually looked at the Cabinet of Canada, what the portfolios are and then looked at the credentials of each minister?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_Canada

Well said.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by 270person

So having money means you get to jump queue. Which in turn bumps someone else with less coin down the line. Interesting concept.

My main question is, "who foots the bill to buy more, (let's say mri machines), so those with money can run to the front of the line?" Are those private practises purchasing them or more likely, will they be purchased by the tax payers, including those who can't afford to jump queue, so those that can afford it, can jump to the front?

Why can't the inefficiencies just be identified, and more of the backlogged equipment be purchased? So all can get an MRI in a reasonable amount of time?

Sorry but I don't think having money makes your family more important than mine. There's always lots of airplanes flying south a person can get on if they wish to pay to get things done sooner. 2 tier doesn't have to happen here. It just creates second tier/second rate users and when it comes to healthcare and education theres no room for business class and coach. When it comes to kids, one is not more important than the other. They all deserve the same quality of healthcare and that should be the very best available.

Not queue jumping at all

"FREE" healthcare says she waits 3 months for an MRI

Private clinic says for $1000 she can get an MRI tomorrow

In my world, she goes to a private clinic and gets an MRI tomorrow

Not gonna stand in line if I dont have to. Ill pay. Gladly.

[Big Sky]

Haven't read the entire thread so excuse me if some of this has already been said.

My understanding is that there are surgical suites sitting unused do to a lack of funding. Also, there are surgeons who could perform more surgeries if there was adequate funding. This is not a new issue. Quick google search found this quote from 2012.

Alberta Medical Association president Linda Slocombe said the system should be using the facilities in place, but surgeons can't get operating rooms.

"We have unused ORs due to lack of funding," she said.

So, if I'm #767 in line for knee surgery and 10 people ahead of me in the line decide to pony up the cash to pay for surgery from a underutilised surgical team in an underused surgical suite, how is that a bad thing? I get to move up 10 spots.

[Talking moose]

It’s a good thing for everyone.
People here are letting their political views dictate how they feel about it.

[comaderek]

I say you get one chance to make a decision private or public . If u choose private then u pay for everything . If u loose your job that pays private healthcare u go in dept and then make decision what u don’t need when u can’t afford it and private needs your cash before u can come in. If u had to sign on dotted line to go private only I doubt anyone would sign that .
I say for all that like private put up or shut up.
Surprising a PC government would sign onto making health care a profit maker for big business . Not!!
Just so u know what private healthcare costs a person. On vacation daughter had to get appendix out . Company travel insurance picked up the tab. 3 days in hospital $58,000 US.
Almost $20,000 a day. No way it should be that much. People wonder why insurance companies won’t insure people with preexisting conditions. How much profit is in that $58,000? 70%?
It is not like people can’t just slip across the border and pay for a test. Why set it up private here? Oh yes to make companies money not to help our healthcare.

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by comaderek

I say you get one chance to make a decision private or public . If u choose private then u pay for everything . If u loose your job that pays private healthcare u go in dept and then make decision what u don’t need when u can’t afford it and private needs your cash before u can come in. If u had to sign on dotted line to go private only I doubt anyone would sign that .
I say for all that like private put up or shut up.
Surprising a PC government would sign onto making health care a profit maker for big business . Not!!
Just so u know what private healthcare costs a person. On vacation daughter had to get appendix out . Company travel insurance picked up the tab. 3 days in hospital $58,000 US.
Almost $20,000 a day. No way it should be that much. People wonder why insurance companies won’t insure people with preexisting conditions. How much profit is in that $58,000? 70%?
It is not like people can’t just slip across the border and pay for a test. Why set it up private here? Oh yes to make companies money not to help our healthcare.

You cannot be SERIOUS

[comaderek]

Originally Posted by RandyBoBandy

You cannot be SERIOUS

Can send u the bill if u like?

My wife who is American was saying how great the experience was. My wife even got to pick a meal to eat with my daughter . I said wait for the bill. It was during st Patrick’s day and leprechauns left treats for my daughter and everything .
Would rather they left **** all and stuck to basics. Buy two hospitals side by side so got to make experience better than other one so u come back next time u need care!!

[Big Sky]

How long is the wait time for appendix surgery?