11,000 AHS workers to lose their jobs

[Rvsask]

There are far too many topics here for me to really join the fray. But the idea of driving from Saskatoon to Calgary to save pst kills me. A person would have to drop down a couple grand to save the 100 bucks they spent on fuel. The average family isn’t dropping down a couple thousand bucks at a time when they visit any grocery store.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

This is like saying do you trust it's safe to have a crap cuz there is a mosquito in the bathroom.

Sent from my SM-A705W using Tapatalk

Not even close. More like a huge hornets nest with hornets flying around. Trudeau quietly extended the equalization program with no consultation with the provinces, making it very clear that he wants to keep Alberta paying for Quebec and the other provinces that vote for him. He is doing everything he can to destroy Alberta, and our economy. And his has been found guilty of multiple ethics violations, with another investigation underway. He has been proven to he corrupt, and he has proven that he hates Alberta, and wants to destroy us. So given those factors, no reasonable person would trust Trudeau to not do whatever he can to keep Alberta paying.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Providing the equalization formula isn't changed. Do you trust Trudeau not to change it in response?

As much as I don't care for Trudeau I don't think he would, or could change the equalization formula if Alberta started a PST.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Scott h

As much as I don't care for Trudeau I don't think he would, or could change the equalization formula if Alberta started a PST.

With the NDP and the Bloc backing him,he is the leader of the government, so of course he can have the formula changed. Look at how much he has already changed existing legislation.

And what makes people think that a PST would be used to pay those 11,000 AHS workers, which is the topi of this thread? And how would a PST help the average Alberta taxpayer, it would be money coming directly out of their pockets. Even if some of the transfer money did get returned to Alberta, it would go to the government, not the taxpayers who would pay the PST.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

With the NDP and the Bloc backing him,he is the leader of the government, so of course he can have the formula changed. Look at how much he has already changed existing legislation.

But he will never change the equalization formula, he will bleed Alberta dry and shovel the $$$ to Quebec to reward his voting base

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by hal53

But he will never change the equalization formula, he will bleed Alberta dry and shovel the $$$ to Quebec to reward his voting base

He will always reward his voters, and especially Quebec, at the expense of Alberta who doesn't give him any seats.

[C2C3PO]

Originally Posted by Rvsask

There are far too many topics here for me to really join the fray. But the idea of driving from Saskatoon to Calgary to save pst kills me. A person would have to drop down a couple grand to save the 100 bucks they spent on fuel. The average family isn’t dropping down a couple thousand bucks at a time when they visit any grocery store.

The argument presented by someone was that introducing a PST has no real harmful effect and brings money into government coffers.

The counter argument made was that people don't like paying more taxes and if given options will take steps to avoid losing more disposable income to the govt - either by distortion of spending habits ( cutting back on buying things they used to ) or diversion to the underground economy which displaces more of the tax burden onto "legitimate" business. This in turn has a negative impact on the economy.

If increased taxes of any type had either a neutral or positive effect on stimulation of the economy then apparently we should all be rolling in the money right now.....

The anecdotal evidence of cross border shopping is real. No one is saying it has a large effect to the overall debt a province is facing but it certainly has an effect, which demonstrates my point that people will alter spending habits to avoid extra taxes. The govt of BC took Costco to court in 2006 demanding they turn over records of out-of-province shoppers from BC coming into Alberta claiming they had a right to retrieve lost PST on items being brought back into their province.
They eventually dropped their challenge after backlash and scorn from their tax base.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

With the NDP and the Bloc backing him,he is the leader of the government, so of course he can have the formula changed. Look at how much he has already changed existing legislation.

And what makes people think that a PST would be used to pay those 11,000 AHS workers, which is the topi of this thread? And how would a PST help the average Alberta taxpayer, it would be money coming directly out of their pockets. Even if some of the transfer money did get returned to Alberta, it would go to the government, not the taxpayers who would pay the PST.

I was merely commenting on the equalization formula and the part that an Alberta PST could help reduce the amount of money sent east. I found that interesting and informative. Sometimes to fix a problem you have to work within confines, not just complain about them.
One quick observation is that many well paid Alberta workers already pay PST, just in another province. I have many in my area that still commute to work in Alberta, and then buy products in BC. The same goes for every worker that commutes from out of province.

[rembo]

Here are some real numbers.


Alberta Health Services will lose 800 positions and shift another 9,700 to the private sector as part of a reorganization that is expected to save $600 million a year.

All the 800 job loses will be done through attrition and front-line services won’t be affected during the COVID-19 pandemic.


Most of the 9,700 other jobs will now be outsourced in labs, housekeeping, food services, and laundry.

There will be 2,000 laboratory jobs, 4,000 housekeeping jobs, 3,000 food service jobs, and 400 laundry jobs cut.

The province said about 70 per cent of lab results are already contracted out, as is 68 per cent of laundry.

A minimum of one hundred management jobs will also be cut.

AHS has 3,300 employees in management, with 68 senior leaders and 14 on the executive teams.

At a Tuesday press conference, AHS head Dr. Verna Yiu described the management as “very, very lean.”


“The pandemic has changed everything. As a result, AHS has been directed to proceed carefully, putting patient care above all else,” said Health Minister Tyler Shandro.

“As a first step, AHS has been directed to eliminate a minimum of 100 management positions and to proceed with previously announced contracting work. This approach will allow us to strike the right balance between supporting the COVID-19 response and Alberta’s challenging fiscal situation.”



The Canadian Taxpayers Federation said they supported Shandro’s efforts.

“Today’s announcement is an excellent step to make Alberta’s health-care system more efficient,” said Franco Terrazzano, Alberta Director for the CTF.

“Alberta’s businesses do a great job of doing laundry and preparing meals, so this is a no-brainer to help relieve some of the mounting costs to taxpayers.”

The CTF said the Alberta government would save $3.6 billion annually if its per person health-care spending was in line with Ontario, B.C. and Quebec, according to the Blue Ribbon Panel on Alberta’s finances. The Alberta government spends more per person on health care than every other province except Newfoundland and Labrador.

“Finding savings through attrition, outsourcing and reducing management bureaucrats is necessary to find savings in Alberta’s high-cost health-care system,” said Terrazzano.

Dave Naylor is the News Editor of the Western Standard

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by rembo

The CTF said the Alberta government would save $3.6 billion annually if its per person health-care spending was in line with Ontario, B.C. and Quebec, according to the Blue Ribbon Panel on Alberta’s finances. The Alberta government spends more per person on health care than every other province except Newfoundland and Labrador.

Berta health is always going to cost more for a variety of reasons. But a big one is our large rural population. Its expensive to operate micro hospitals all over the zones. Ontario is able to centralize and the majority of their population is within 1hr of a major center.
Another big one is people want to live there, whereas it requires a certain type of person to want to live in GP.

So yeah let's save money. Build helipads and fly everyone to Edmonton/Calgary. Shut down Camrose, and all other outlier hospitals.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Berta health is always going to cost more for a variety of reasons. But a big one is our large rural population. Its expensive to operate micro hospitals all over the zones. Ontario is able to centralize and the majority of their population is within 1hr of a major center.
Another big one is people want to live there, whereas it requires a certain type of person to want to live in GP.

So yeah let's save money. Build helipads and fly everyone to Edmonton/Calgary. Shut down Camrose, and all other outlier hospitals.

And yet many small centers in Ontario have hospitals. Some are actually quite close together.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/commo...locations.aspx

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Berta health is always going to cost more for a variety of reasons. But a big one is our large rural population. Its expensive to operate micro hospitals all over the zones. Ontario is able to centralize and the majority of their population is within 1hr of a major center.
Another big one is people want to live there, whereas it requires a certain type of person to want to live in GP.

So yeah let's save money. Build helipads and fly everyone to Edmonton/Calgary. Shut down Camrose, and all other outlier hospitals.

Berta is going to cost more because of above average wages in the health care field.
Have you ever looked at a map of Ontario? lol

A certain type of person to live in GP? Like a farmer? A rancher? An oilfield worker? Lumber industry? Retail? Sounds like the rest of the province to me. What a dick comment

[hal53]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Berta is going to cost more because of above average wages in the health care field.
Have you ever looked at a map of Ontario? lol

A certain type of person to live in GP? Like a farmer? A rancher? An oilfield worker? Lumber industry? Retail? Sounds like the rest of the province to me. What a dick comment

X2!!!!!...

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Berta is going to cost more because of above average wages in the health care field.
Have you ever looked at a map of Ontario? lol

A certain type of person to live in GP? Like a farmer? A rancher? An oilfield worker? Lumber industry? Retail? Sounds like the rest of the province to me. What a dick comment

I'm from the GP area for the record and love the country so don't try. 6 generations worth. And you're damn rights it does require a certain type of person to live in the Peace country. Theres alot more people that would rather live in Southern Ontario than the peace. Theres a reason 40% of canadas population lives there. Its not my cup but that's not my point, its a reality.

As for the map comment yeah I have. You ever been there? I've lived and went to school across that province.

I've made my points and the few of you will keep pulling straw man arguments. Some of your just want an echo chamber. That's fine but you'll never grow as a person. Just end up miserable and getting irritated at some other guy who's typing away on his phone while he's taking a dump.

[sns2]

This thread is great proof that discussing politics serves nothing other than to divide people who would likely get along great in person due to common interests in outdoor pursuits. Sad really.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

This thread is great proof that discussing politics serves nothing other than to divide people who would likely get along great in person due to common interests in outdoor pursuits. Sad really.

At one time we weren't allowed to discuss politics here.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by sns2

This thread is great proof that discussing politics serves nothing other than to divide people who would likely get along great in person due to common interests in outdoor pursuits. Sad really.

Don't worry sns I still get along with you even though you have some crazy ideas

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Glion

Don't worry sns I still get along with you even though you have some crazy ideas

You are a good man, Glion!

[lazylemming]

Originally Posted by sns2

This thread is great proof that discussing politics serves nothing other than to divide people who would likely get along great in person due to common interests in outdoor pursuits. Sad really.

Politics serves a lot and has great impact on all of our lives. During good times people might be able to get away with just focusing on hobbies and ignoring politics (I don't think this is responsible), but during bad times people can't afford to do that.

Political discussion can be useless if people are focused too much on themselves and just what would benefit them personally. It's only really useful if people can come to some agreement or compromise as to what would serve the whole community best.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by lazylemming

Politics serves a lot and has great impact on all of our lives. During good times people might be able to get away with just focusing on hobbies and ignoring politics (I don't think this is responsible), but during bad times people can't afford to do that.

Political discussion can be useless if people are focused too much on themselves and just what would benefit them personally. It's only really useful if people can come to some agreement or compromise as to what would serve the whole community best.

But it's sad that we are reduced to debating politics on a outdoorsman site in the middle of a hunting season, when there should be so much more to discuss. Then again, it's sad that some people come to an outdoorsman site, to post only about politics, and seem to have no interest in the outdoors.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But it's sad that we are reduced to debating politics on a outdoorsman site in the middle of a hunting season, when there should be so much more to discuss. Then again, it's sad that some people come to an outdoorsman site, to post only about politics, and seem to have no interest in the outdoors.

Exactly. Wait until winter. It will only get worse.

This is an outdoors site. Hunting, fishing, and trapping.

A quick search of google turns up lots of Canadian political sites...

https://www.google.com/search?q=cana...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[sns2]

Originally Posted by lazylemming

Politics serves a lot and has great impact on all of our lives. During good times people might be able to get away with just focusing on hobbies and ignoring politics (I don't think this is responsible), but during bad times people can't afford to do that.

Political discussion can be useless if people are focused too much on themselves and just what would benefit them personally. It's only really useful if people can come to some agreement or compromise as to what would serve the whole community best.

Joins Alberta Outdoorsmen in last two weeks. All 63 posts on political topics. Hmmm. When it smells like fish it is usually fish. Welcome back.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I'm from the GP area for the record and love the country so don't try. 6 generations worth. And you're damn rights it does require a certain type of person to live in the Peace country. Theres alot more people that would rather live in Southern Ontario than the peace. Theres a reason 40% of canadas population lives there. Its not my cup but that's not my point, its a reality.

As for the map comment yeah I have. You ever been there? I've lived and went to school across that province.

I've made my points and the few of you will keep pulling straw man arguments. Some of your just want an echo chamber. That's fine but you'll never grow as a person. Just end up miserable and getting irritated at some other guy who's typing away on his phone while he's taking a dump.

I could care less that you're from there. Lot of good folks live up there, and to call them special......

Yep, I've been to Ontario, worked out there actually. Had the "pleasure" of a bunch of geothermal drilling out there back in the day. Been all across the province. Have worked with quite a few guys from out there, work with a couple right now. A lot of "good old boys" from out there. I'd actually trade them for a few Albertans I've worked with. lol

You missed one of the key parts I mentioned about Berta's health care costs?

[lazylemming]

Originally Posted by sns2

Exactly. Wait until winter. It will only get worse.

This is an outdoors site. Hunting, fishing, and trapping.

A quick search of google turns up lots of Canadian political sites...

https://www.google.com/search?q=cana...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Those are mostly all left wing echo chambers, I bet.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But it's sad that we are reduced to debating politics on a outdoorsman site in the middle of a hunting season, when there should be so much more to discuss. Then again, it's sad that some people come to an outdoorsman site, to post only about politics, and seem to have no interest in the outdoors.

I sense that is a jab at me. For the record, I am a hunter, fisher, and have set the odd trap. But really, what is there to discuss with online strangers other than politics? Unless there's some specific question you are looking for help with, but most of it has already been discussed and can be found by searching.

[rembo]

The last two paragraphs are telling.


https://www.westernstandardonline.co...ahs-jobs-plan/

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by sns2

This thread is great proof that discussing politics serves nothing other than to divide people who would likely get along great in person due to common interests in outdoor pursuits. Sad really.

Exactly!


Yes very sad.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

I could care less that you're from there. Lot of good folks live up there, and to call them special......

Yep, I've been to Ontario, worked out there actually. Had the "pleasure" of a bunch of geothermal drilling out there back in the day. Been all across the province. Have worked with quite a few guys from out there, work with a couple right now. A lot of "good old boys" from out there. I'd actually trade them for a few Albertans I've worked with. lol

You missed one of the key parts I mentioned about Berta's health care costs?

Never said special. Dont make stuff up. And i don't care who you work with.
You're probably smart enough to know why they received a slightly higher than average wage but are you smart enough to realize its not the straw that's breaking the camels back?

You are always a comment cherry picker but now you're straight up lying. I don't waste time on liars.

[stob]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Remember when the NDP hired 42,000 new provincial workers (read: gov’t union) that we somehow previously got by without? I do.

I have not read all 9pgs of this thread, but that is true ... they are going after 11000 health care jobs, and my intel shows they have the framework set to reduce the civil service by 25000 as well... this on the heals of picking a fight with the AMA, UNA, AUPE, and HSAA with no capacity to negotiate, but an unfettered capacity to legislate ... they just cancelled a big UCP conference at Lacombe set for Oct.24/20 because no one wanted to go, plus rumblings of cabinet disarray, a new BOD, and a fast approaching Red Zone to the next election .... going after the 35000 jobs aforementioned has always been the way of most governments, because instead of doing the right thing they gravitate to the low hanging fruit because this gets easy and qwik headlines and checks the boxes to show look what we did... all you need to do is look at the bios of those elected and the BOD's of any political party and most show a history of limited real work and world experience, patronage, narrow perspective, largesse, popularity contest winners, et cetera ... our system is not perfect by any means, but it beats the alternatives ... I am not an NDP supporter, but I do like to support the best horse in the race... Notley has really been the smartest leader we have had in Alberta for some time... she was able to learn what oil meant to the provincial and federal fabrics and really tried to do what was right by so many locally and at a pan-Canadian perspective and move the needle with the tools available ... IDK what's next

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by stob

I have not read all 9pgs of this thread,

You probably should have...

[horsepower]

Originally Posted by sns2

This thread is great proof that discussing politics serves nothing other than to divide people who would likely get along great in person due to common interests in outdoor pursuits. Sad really.

I have been thinking about your statement and I want to disagree.

Discussing politics is vital for the survival of our democracy. It is only when we stop discussing politics that the politicians are able to work with impunity.

We have to learn to discuss politics BETTER. Not fight, not personalize, not attack. Learning takes time, good teachers/mentors, desire.

"Not talking will make not make things go away and get better. It will only make them worse." my wife (at 2am)