11,000 AHS workers to lose their jobs

[sns2]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Two biggest hits to the provincial budget
Healthcare and education
Both have been the greatest recipients of the glory days
Both need to be reforms to realign them with the new economic situation at hand.
Union bad because union takes takes takes and there is no give back
High paying cradle to the grave jobs aren’t sustainable anymore
How many unions supported the ndp and their anti oil agenda?
That was the golden goose that paid your salaries
Now that goose is cooked

Mark, how much say does a rank and file union member have on the direction of their union?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

[blacknorthernjk]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

People are quick to criticize others as being overpaid, yet most of those doing the criticizing would not live where the others live, or work under the conditions that they work under. Some jobs pay a lot more due to location and working conditions.

That is agreeably a valid consideration, no argument here.

[sns2]

Many seem to make the assumption that all union member are anti-oil and way left of center.

Do you anti-union guys really think this?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

Many seem to make the assumption that all union member are anti-oil and way left of center.

Do you anti-union guys really think this?

I think that many people realize that the rank and file members do not all share the views of their union, but the union represents all members, so the membership gets painted with the same brush. Unfortunately, the unions themselves have become big business with political influence, and no longer appear to exist for the benefit of their members. Unions like Unifor, and leaders like Dias have turned a lot of people against unions.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Two biggest hits to the provincial budget
Healthcare and education
Both have been the greatest recipients of the glory days
Both need to be reforms to realign them with the new economic situation at hand.
Union bad because union takes takes takes and there is no give back
High paying cradle to the grave jobs aren’t sustainable anymore
How many unions supported the ndp and their anti oil agenda?
That was the golden goose that paid your salaries
Now that goose is cooked

At one time I would have agreed with you, now I'm not so sure.

When executives earn over a million a year with perks, it may be that those executives are what is no longer sustainable.

What about a company that buys 100 SUVs to replace a fleet of pickups and discovers you can't haul a half ton of asphalt in an SUV.

Who is the more costly then?

It has always been that the front line workers get blamed for the errors and wasteful spending of the top executives.

I understand that politicians would claim health care and education are the biggest drains on government revenue but is it really true.

Or is bloated pensions for politicians and wasteful spending the real culprit?

One thing you can bank on, if it is the latter no politician will ever admit it.

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Unfortunately, politicians are not going to cut their own wages, although I agree they are greatly overpaid .As for the billions that Trudeau gives away , that is the federal government, not our provincial government.

I looked up the base salary for an MLA in Alberta, $120, 936, per year. For some reason I don’t think they pay tax on their salary. I use 35% when I estimate my tax, so that puts them at $163,000 and change. And we still get lack lustre candidates.

2 years ago my MLA was a hair dresser. The one before that was a secretary.

I have seen the back side of politics. Good politicians are busy. Very busy. Doing things I would have no interest in doing, when I’d rather be with my family. And I’d have no interest in having my personal life scrutinized.

Yeah, times are hard. But it’s still Alberta, and educated people (Educated by university, or school of hard knocks) can still make comparable, or more.

Pay less, and we will get less than we already have.

[ESOXangler]

We all spend soo much time arguing back and forth that we don't realize how much the corporations are taking from us.

Its like the carbon tax. Everyone was in an uproar about it, bumper stickers galore! But nothing like that about transmission/distribution and maintenance fees! Over 1/2 my bill is that! Best part is most of the equipment at one time was ours! But Don Getty ran up a bunch of debt building hospitals for all his cronies and Ralph came in and fire saled everything to pay it down. Now we pay corporations for the honor of keeping our lights on. And we subsidize alot of the power companies as well! But that doesn't stop their Ceo, Vp and COOs make huge bonuses.

Nope let's be mad at the person that gets $21 an hour to change bed sheets and wash forks. Yup their the problem for sure!

[jstubbs]

It is pretty telling about this gov’t when this forum, majority of whom here would probably consider themselves staunch conservatives (including myself), is pretty divided on this issue of whether it is a good or bad move.

Everything this gov’t seems to do is slash and sell/contract out to private industry (that are often not even AB companies). Where are the true savings numbers?

We need revenue. Bad. Spending is one thing but IMO best way to do it is slowly cull it (see SNS saying he hasn’t had a raise in a near decade—pretty common theme among lots of govt workers) that is easing the burden without blowing things up.

Call me crazy but looking back how bad was the carbon tax? Ok fuel is 6 cents cheaper per L. I didn’t notice any of the proposed insane price increases that people were yammering would happen (including myself). Ok it costs more to heat your house but i haven’t noticed anyone celebrating how much they’ve been saving without the carbon tax now because it was pretty negligible overall

Brought in 2.6B in revenue over two years.... certainly well needed now

Sorry boys... maybe I’ve finally lost my mind, lol

[Dewey Cox]

The carbon tax was "revenue neutral" (if you don't count the administration)

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

It is pretty telling about this gov’t when this forum, majority of whom here would probably consider themselves staunch conservatives (including myself), is pretty divided on this issue of whether it is a good or bad move.

Everything this gov’t seems to do is slash and sell/contract out to private industry (that are often not even AB companies). Where are the true savings numbers?

We need revenue. Bad. Spending is one thing but IMO best way to do it is slowly cull it (see SNS saying he hasn’t had a raise in a near decade—pretty common theme among lots of govt workers) that is easing the burden without blowing things up.

Call me crazy but looking back how bad was the carbon tax? Ok fuel is 6 cents cheaper per L. I didn’t notice any of the proposed insane price increases that people were yammering would happen (including myself). Ok it costs more to heat your house but i haven’t noticed anyone celebrating how much they’ve been saving without the carbon tax now because it was pretty negligible overall

Brought in 2.6B in revenue over two years.... certainly well needed now

Sorry boys... maybe I’ve finally lost my mind, lol

Nobody is celebrating how much we are saving, because we are still paying a carbon tax, but now it is federal instead of provincial

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Nobody is celebrating how much we are saving, because we are still paying a carbon tax, but now it is federal instead of provincial

Like my previous post we are still whining about the carbon tax. A retired person like yourself should be crying blue murder about the transmission fees and what this governments doing to the Healthcare. Its the 50-65 year age group that's going to feel this decline alot sooner!

[sns2]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

We all spend soo much time arguing back and forth that we don't realize how much the corporations are taking from us.

Its like the carbon tax. Everyone was in an uproar about it, bumper stickers galore! But nothing like that about transmission/distribution and maintenance fees! Over 1/2 my bill is that! Best part is most of the equipment at one time was ours! But Don Getty ran up a bunch of debt building hospitals for all his cronies and Ralph came in and fire saled everything to pay it down. Now we pay corporations for the honor of keeping our lights on. And we subsidize alot of the power companies as well! But that doesn't stop their Ceo, Vp and COOs make huge bonuses.

Nope let's be mad at the person that gets $21 an hour to change bed sheets and wash forks. Yup their the problem for sure!

I don't think anyone will argue your post. Hard to argue against the truth.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Like my previous post we are still whining about the carbon tax. A retired person like yourself should be crying blue murder about the transmission fees and what this governments doing to the Healthcare. Its the 50-65 year age group that's going to feel this decline alot sooner!

The carbon tax is just another tax that accomplishes nothing but take money out of our pockets, so of course we are against it. As to the Healthcare, I will accept some cuts now, rather than have the province end up bankrupt, and be unable to afford health care at all. Only a fool supports the idea of trying to spend our way out of our present financial situation. And only an idiot believes that the budget will balance itself.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by Jokey75

Got any proof of that?

the rumour mill....

[Badgerbadger]

It's an interesting paradox.

On this thread, people are touting others working for AHS getting fired/laid off/having their pay cut. On the Alberta Boom/Bust thread, people are complaining that people are losing their jobs and homes, and the government should do something.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

We all spend soo much time arguing back and forth that we don't realize how much the corporations are taking from us.

Its like the carbon tax. Everyone was in an uproar about it, bumper stickers galore! But nothing like that about transmission/distribution and maintenance fees! Over 1/2 my bill is that! Best part is most of the equipment at one time was ours! But Don Getty ran up a bunch of debt building hospitals for all his cronies and Ralph came in and fire saled everything to pay it down. Now we pay corporations for the honor of keeping our lights on. And we subsidize alot of the power companies as well! But that doesn't stop their Ceo, Vp and COOs make huge bonuses.

Nope let's be mad at the person that gets $21 an hour to change bed sheets and wash forks. Yup their the problem for sure!

I’ll let you in on a secret
All those transmission and distribution fees
Those are what pays for atco and Epcot’s shiny new trucks and their union employees wages and perks. You think they make their money off the price of gas or electricity ha! Wrong
Did you know that epcor put out a tender for work they do and maintain and they lost a bid to themselves
Yes that’s right, epcor put out a bid for epcor work and epcor didn’t get it!
They lost it because they were no longer efficient enough to complete

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by coyotecaller

Sounds like custodial services, laundry and the like. They’ll contract the work and then the contractor can pay minimum wage part time without benefits. So now the single moms who worked these jobs are gonna have to reapply for the job and then make half as much as they used to, without benefits. Way to go Jason Kenney! Job creation is at the top of your list.

I believe BC did this in 2017

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by sns2

Many seem to make the assumption that all union member are anti-oil and way left of center.

Do you anti-union guys really think this?

I don’t believe the average unionized employee is anti oil however the union leadership, via their being in bed with the NDP is.

I have a union worker here, and the phone messages from the union boss is very telling.

He hates seeing his union dues spent attacking other workers.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

I looked up the base salary for an MLA in Alberta, $120, 936, per year. For some reason I don’t think they pay tax on their salary. I use 35% when I estimate my tax, so that puts them at $163,000 and change. And we still get lack lustre candidates.

Most of what you say is spot on but one thing isn't.

That 163,000 is only a small part of their true cost to us. They hide much of their salary under government expense.
They get to write off or charge to an expense account a lot more. Housing, food, transportation, entertainment, all in the name of doing their job.

Wasn't it Redford that had a private suite built for her with taxpayers money, for after she left politics?

And it seems to me I remember something about Terdo charging us over 50,000 to pay for his vacation on some private Island.

I don't think anyone would complain much if we got value for our money but what we get is cuts in essential workers and a power line to nowhere.

You know where that power line ends? I do, it's just down the road from me, right next to our major industry, a small saw mill.
We paid for that, first with tax money and now with cuts to our front line workers.

It may not be part of any politicians salary but it sure is part of the cost to us to employ them.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

At one time I would have agreed with you, now I'm not so sure.

When executives earn over a million a year with perks, it may be that those executives are what is no longer sustainable.

What about a company that buys 100 SUVs to replace a fleet of pickups and discovers you can't haul a half ton of asphalt in an SUV.

Who is the more costly then?

It has always been that the front line workers get blamed for the errors and wasteful spending of the top executives.

I understand that politicians would claim health care and education are the biggest drains on government revenue but is it really true.

Or is bloated pensions for politicians and wasteful spending the real culprit?

One thing you can bank on, if it is the latter no politician will ever admit it.

Private sector CEO’s and exec’s are paid from the profits that their companies generate under their leadership. Unless your snc lavalin or bombardier
Public sector execs are paid almost as much and they have no accountability to any spending or losses. If we need more money, we just complain to the news and then people will put pressure on the govt.

Have you seen the salaries for the exec’s at the u of a?
Or other govt exec’s severance packages
Mind blowing

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

It's an interesting paradox.

On this thread, people are touting others working for AHS getting fired/laid off/having their pay cut. On the Alberta Boom/Bust thread, people are complaining that people are losing their jobs and homes, and the government should do something.

Ya 100% the provincial govt should do something about the federal govt sinking this province

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Private sector CEO’s and exec’s are paid from the profits that their companies generate under their leadership. Unless your snc lavalin or bombardier
Public sector execs are paid almost as much and they have no accountability to any spending or losses. If we need more money, we just complain to the news and then people will put pressure on the govt.

Have you seen the salaries for the exec’s at the u of a?
Or other govt exec’s severance packages
Mind blowing

The biggest difference is that private sector execs are paid by the companies, public sector execs are paid by the taxpayers.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The carbon tax is just another tax that accomplishes nothing but take money out of our pockets, so of course we are against it. As to the Healthcare, I will accept some cuts now, rather than have the province end up bankrupt, and be unable to afford health care at all. Only a fool supports the idea of trying to spend our way out of our present financial situation. And only an idiot believes that the budget will balance itself.

I agree with everything in your post. 100%! But this latest move won't accomplish it. All we are doing is transferring positions to a corporation that will in turn pay lower wages and still charge the tax payer more money!

We had a job out for bid and both non-union and union bid on it. The non-unions bid seemed a whole lot cheaper. But once their foot was in the door they started adding extras. Found ways to squeak things in through loop holes in the contract. All thay ended up happening was lower wages for the workers and larger profits for the company. And ill bet you dollars to donuts all these new contracts will be the same...

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I agree with everything in your post. 100%! But this latest move won't accomplish it. All we are doing is transferring positions to a corporation that will in turn pay lower wages and still charge the tax payer more money!

We had a job out for bid and both non-union and union bid on it. The non-unions bid seemed a whole lot cheaper. But once their foot was in the door they started adding extras. Found ways to squeak things in through loop holes in the contract. All thay ended up happening was lower wages for the workers and larger profits for the company. And ill bet you dollars to donuts all these new contracts will be the same...

You don’t think the union guys would find the same holes? Just at a higher rate?

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I agree with everything in your post. 100%! But this latest move won't accomplish it. All we are doing is transferring positions to a corporation that will in turn pay lower wages and still charge the tax payer more money!

We had a job out for bid and both non-union and union bid on it. The non-unions bid seemed a whole lot cheaper. But once their foot was in the door they started adding extras. Found ways to squeak things in through loop holes in the contract. All thay ended up happening was lower wages for the workers and larger profits for the company. And ill bet you dollars to donuts all these new contracts will be the same...

So, that company should do things that aren't included in the contract for free?

[bsmitty27]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The carbon tax is just another tax that accomplishes nothing but take money out of our pockets, so of course we are against it. As to the Healthcare, I will accept some cuts now, rather than have the province end up bankrupt, and be unable to afford health care at all. Only a fool supports the idea of trying to spend our way out of our present financial situation. And only an idiot believes that the budget will balance itself.

Making cuts would be good. finding efficiencies would be wonderful. But I dont see any of that yet.


Ok so how much does it cost to replace those jobs?
We dont know if its going to save any money in the long run and a whole sale change will cost a huge amount in the short term, so we wont see any savings for at least 2 years. If the UPC keeps jumping on every runaway train, they wont get voted back in again, so we all got an expensive lesson on poor economics

Simple math
$600,000,000 divided by 11000 jobs =54,545.00
How dare they!

WERE GUN'A SPEND 900,000,000 TO SAVE 6000,000,000
CHANGE MY MIND

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bsmitty27

Making cuts would be good. finding efficiencies would be wonderful. But I dont see any of that yet.


Ok so how much does it cost to replace those jobs?
We dont know if its going to save any money in the long run and a whole sale change will cost a huge amount in the short term, so we wont see any savings for at least 2 years. If the UPC keeps jumping on every runaway train, they wont get voted back in again, so we all got an expensive lesson on poor economics

Simple math
$600,000,000 divided by 11000 jobs =54,545.00
How dare they!

WERE GUN'A SPEND 900,000,000 TO SAVE 6000,000,000
CHANGE MY MIND

What makes you think that they will replace all of those jobs? Are they all necessary, or can we do without some of them?

As far as a poor economics lesson goes, try this one.

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...-fiasco-mounts

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I agree with everything in your post. 100%! But this latest move won't accomplish it. All we are doing is transferring positions to a corporation that will in turn pay lower wages and still charge the tax payer more money!

We had a job out for bid and both non-union and union bid on it. The non-unions bid seemed a whole lot cheaper. But once their foot was in the door they started adding extras. Found ways to squeak things in through loop holes in the contract. All that ended up happening was lower wages for the workers and larger profits for the company. And ill bet you dollars to donuts all these new contracts will be the same...

That is what happened in the highway maintenance department.

Cost to the taxpayer went up, wages went down, services went down and profits went through the roof.
I spent 14 years in that business. It took me a long time to piece it all together. What I saw was simply unimaginable.

1 worker, 1 old pickup, 60 deliminator posts, 8 hours work.

Truck burns $90.00 worth of fuel
Worker earns $200.00
Posts cost $14.00 each

Posts billed out at $75.00 each supply and install.

Gross, 4500

Profit, $3,160.00 per day

You can't come close to that with a Kenworth and a B train.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

That is what happened in the highway maintenance department.

Cost to the taxpayer went up, wages went down, services went down and profits went through the roof.
I spent 14 years in that business. It took me a long time to piece it all together. What I saw was simply unimaginable.

1 worker, 1 old pickup, 60 deliminator posts, 8 hours work.

Truck burns $90.00 worth of fuel
Worker earns $200.00
Posts cost $14.00 each

Posts billed out at $75.00 each supply and install.

Gross, 4500

Profit, $3,160.00 per day

You can't come close to that with a Kenworth and a B train.

Govt would have had a new truck
4 guys but only 1 working at a time
Wouldn’t have got them all completed in one day because they had to go to their union meeting
Would probably add up the the same when you factor in everything

Since you know all rates, why don’t you put a bid in to do it?
All you would probably have to do is refinance your house, leverage all your savings and risk your future. It could be all yours

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Gross, 4500

Profit, $3,160.00 per day

You can't come close to that with a Kenworth and a B train.

I'm on the other side of that coin, and it's not that easy, for that one simple job, you also have vehicle maintenance/insurance/registration, cost of training courses, paying the hourly wage while worker takes said courses, WCB, EI, pension, taxes, PPE, tools, etc. just for the job. Then back at the shop, you've got to make enough for admin staff, building lease, utilities, office equipment, shop supplies, etc., it's a long list of expenses.

I heard what buddy was charging per hour for a truck and pup in Edmonton this summer though, yikes, not a business I'd want to be in.