Over booked airline flight disasters

[cover]

Originally Posted by rugatika

From what I've read they were perfectly within their rights to eject anyone they want. Refusal to obey them means you get the old heave ho. When you get on a plane, you essentially become the property of the airline. People seem OK with it for the most part. They still fill the planes up. Seems like a savage way to travel to me.

This statement relates to Maritime Admiralty Law . Law from the days when the only means of international travel was by sea.

Example (all upper case) - JOE BLOW (corporate you , you are owned)
(all lower case)- joe blow ( free person , sovereign you)

Notice how all government documents with your name on it( drivers licence etc.) are always in all upper case ?

[silverdoctor]

People don't seem to realize it, but when you get on a plane, you forfeit your civil rights.

[Jamie]

Stock is dropping today....
Should have shorted it....
They have lost 800 Million so far..
Doubt it stays down long though.

Jamie

[3blade]

Originally Posted by jrowan

Also I'm fairly certain that Westjet and maybe Air Canada have planes designed specifically with extra crew seats (probably not 6 more). I do remember being on flights where some of the flight attendant seats were empty.

They do look less comfortable though.

Yes but not what we're talking about. Those crew seats are for the crew that is actively working the flight. When airlines need to move crews around, they take up regular seats on the plane. That's what this incident was about. They overbooked AND had crew to accommodate...pretty stupid. Usually it's one or the other.

Also, Westjet is now overbooking just like everyone else. They all overbook and hope for cancellations, that way the plane is full and they take a profit off the passenger initiated rebooks. If they have to offer incentives it costs them basically nothing while the passenger is out time and money.

[Ken07AOVette]

We have flown lots, nothing like this ever happened. Worst was being held up in secondary coming back from Hawaii for letting them know I had macadamia nuts in the bags. We missed the connecting flight because of this, being herded around like cattle so they could inspect the boxed nuts. This was after them losing our luggage on the way to Hawaii, and both destination and returning flights being delayed. Then they lost our luggage coming home.
Their answer was;
$500 USD to buy clothes for the 4 of us daily until our luggage was found and delivered to the hotel, and $2900 in flight credits given to us for being so reasonable to deal with.

That was with United and Westjet.

You bet I will book with them again.

I would bet any money that the Dr will be suing, that is going to cost them. Even if he gets millions it will mean nothing to them, but still.

[CanuckShooter]

Overbooking should be illegal, it's fraudulent to sell something you don't have. AND if they want to bump passengers they should have to give them 20 times the cost of their ticket and accommodate them with hotels, food and alternate travel arrangements.

[jrowan]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Overbooking should be illegal, it's fraudulent to sell something you don't have. AND if they want to bump passengers they should have to give them 20 times the cost of their ticket and accommodate them with hotels, food and alternate travel arrangements.

Overbooking is a common occurrence in other industries that involve renting. Hotels overbook, as do car companies. Its just they usually have enough resources not booked to provide you with a free upgrade. So either airlines need to ensure certain seats can't be purchased to provide overflow or cooperate with other airlines to find accommodations.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Overbooking should be illegal, it's fraudulent to sell something you don't have. AND if they want to bump passengers they should have to give them 20 times the cost of their ticket and accommodate them with hotels, food and alternate travel arrangements.

I agree. Fine print be damned, it is ignorant and really should be unlawful.

[javlin101]

I do not understand the over booking issue. If all the seats on a plane have been paid for who cares if the people do not show up. Am I missing something here?

[Ken07AOVette]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-gay-sex.html

Doctor dragged off United flight was felon who traded prescription drugs for secret gay sex with patient half his age and took them himself - and he needed anger management, was 'not forthright' and had control issues, psychiatrist found
Dr David Dao's troubled medical past is revealed in court documents
His wife Teresa - also a doctor - reported him to medical authorities and his secret inappropriate gay relationship with a patient was revealed
Father of five, 69, was convicted of a felony - but avoided prison time - because he was giving the man prescription drugs in return for gay sex
He denied the gay sex even though he was caught on camera shirtless and in his pants with Brian Case, his lover, 26, who was a fellow worshiper at his church
Case alleged that Dao wanted to hook him on heroin so he would keep coming to him for gay sex
Psychiatrist found he had series of issues including lacking 'the foundation to navigate difficult situations'
One doctor wrote that he 'he would unilaterally chose to do his own thing'
He only got his licence back after agreeing to be drug tested and polygraphed
United are facing a furious backlash and boycott calls over the video
Their stock price plunged as Wall Street reacted to passenger fury
DailyMail.com also reveals that the airline told staff he had 'tried to strike law enforcement' - despite no evidence for that on the video


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4dxkxrvbn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by javlin101

I do not understand the over booking issue. If all the seats on a plane have been paid for who cares if the people do not show up. Am I missing something here?

Its simple and makes some sense...
The airlines know that on average, someone is not going to show up. They get a chance to double down on a few seats.

Its not right, but I understand it.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by javlin101

I do not understand the over booking issue. If all the seats on a plane have been paid for who cares if the people do not show up. Am I missing something here?

Airlines are happy to overbook,
as many people then ask to rebook for different flights, for which the airline will charge a substantial fee,
which is much more than any compensation (usually vouchers, which may never be used, or may expire, or can be cancelled)
that is REQUIRED to be provided to those who are actually refused boarding.

I love to fly, but have successfully avoided any commercial passenger flying since 911,
and will continue to use any alternate, even if slower or more expensive.
I refuse to be disrespected and treated like cattle.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[jstubbs]

Does anyone have a newslink that doesn't sensationalize what occured and instead provide the objective facts of the matter? I would be interested to see what legal authority airlines have in terms of being able to forcibly remove passengers from their planes.

I understand their planes are their private property, and upon purchase of an airpline ticket, you are entering a contractual agreement where I assume they reserve the legal right to revoke your permission to be on their planes at anytime and from there you are trespassing, but what extent can they actually physically remove you from their planes?

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-gay-sex.html

Doctor dragged off United flight was felon who traded prescription drugs for secret gay sex with patient half his age and took them himself - and he needed anger management, was 'not forthright' and had control issues, psychiatrist found
Dr David Dao's troubled medical past is revealed in court documents
His wife Teresa - also a doctor - reported him to medical authorities and his secret inappropriate gay relationship with a patient was revealed
Father of five, 69, was convicted of a felony - but avoided prison time - because he was giving the man prescription drugs in return for gay sex
He denied the gay sex even though he was caught on camera shirtless and in his pants with Brian Case, his lover, 26, who was a fellow worshiper at his church
Case alleged that Dao wanted to hook him on heroin so he would keep coming to him for gay sex
Psychiatrist found he had series of issues including lacking 'the foundation to navigate difficult situations'
One doctor wrote that he 'he would unilaterally chose to do his own thing'
He only got his licence back after agreeing to be drug tested and polygraphed
United are facing a furious backlash and boycott calls over the video
Their stock price plunged as Wall Street reacted to passenger fury
DailyMail.com also reveals that the airline told staff he had 'tried to strike law enforcement' - despite no evidence for that on the video


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4dxkxrvbn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

He is certainly a creep if true, however not sure how this is relevant to the issue at hand. Even if he supposedly lacked the foundation to navigate difficult situations, how does that excuse what United did in the slightest? Does being uncooperative due to some sort of psychological issue give the airline the right to bash and drag you around?

[fargineyesore]

I don't see why this guy's past comes up in the news.

So if I were to stand up for myself against similar BS, if I don't toe the "company line" I suddenly get to have my past dredged up for the public to see?

What is it with society being so judgemental these days?

[tbiddy]

He is certainly a creep if true, however not sure how this is relevant to the issue at hand. Even if he supposedly lacked the foundation to navigate difficult situations, how does that excuse what United did in the slightest? Does being uncooperative due to some sort of psychological issue give the airline the right to bash and drag you around?

Exactly. His history has nothing to do it. Did anybody dig up the history of the officers or the United agents? Comes across as a smear campaign by United. This is a PR nightmare for United that the CEO can't even see. He still thinks they really did nothing wrong.

This man was a paying customer that had paid for his seat, was boarded and sitting in his seat ready to take a flight so he could go to work. United decided that their employees need that seat more than this man.

Put yourself yourself in his shoes. You're sitting on a plane in Edmonton, heading to work in Vancouver. They ask 4 people to give up their seats. They come to you and tell you HAVE to give up your seat. There is no way you can miss this flight, so you say no. So they call the authorities. You still say no, you can't miss this meeting. So they physically attack you and forcefully remove you from the seat you have bought and paid for! Crazy. This is huge and United will feel it by the paying customers.

[coreya3212]

This was not about over booking. Think about it, even if over booked, they would never issue more boarding passes than seats and realize it on the plane. This was a fully boarded plane, united wanted to put 4 employees on to get them to the destination for work so wanted to remove 4 customers. I don't care if the guy was the devil reincarnated, removal from the aircraft should have only been at his own discretion.

[Ken07AOVette]

It's a way of diverting blame and interest away from the airline. Likely cost them plenty. And yes, absolutely irrelevant to the fact that they overbook and treat customers like cattle.

[KinAlberta]

Pretty amazing that, one, an airline would place its staff above the wishes of a doctor saying he needs to get back home, and two, that some in the media figure they should publish this doctor's background for the whole world to see.

In the future, airlines might have to hire their own doctors to fly on all flights.

[Amateur Hunter]

That is fake news That can't happen in USA. That happened in Russia

[Gary K]

its odd, i almost strictly fly united. and prefer them over everyone else.

I have asked to be bumped once, i got a 250$ flight voucher, 50$ airport voucher, and 10,000 miles. for a 4 hour change in itinerary.

Id sure like to be asked to get bumped more often!

[lmtada]

United Airlines " Not enough seating, Prepare for a Beating".

[Ronji]

A number of years ago, we were flying home from Hawaii. The plane was overbooked. They announced if 6 people were willing to fly back the next day. Hotels, meals, cabs would be covered by the airline. There was almost a stampede off the plane of volunteers.

This is a public relations nightmare for airline. I am certain that the passenger that was removed, will never, ever pay for a plane ticket again.

[LSLAKER]

The over booking issue should have already been resolved by United before he entered onto the aircraft. He was allowed onto the aircraft and he was given an assigned seat. He was set to go and he had every right to remain on the aircraft.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by LSLAKER

The over booking issue should have already been resolved by United before he entered onto the aircraft. He was allowed onto the aircraft and he was given an assigned seat. He was set to go and he had every right to remain on the aircraft.

I agree.

I would find it less of an issue if he were refused boarding, but once on the plane, they should not have even asked him or anyone to leave simply to cover for their mistake.

To then try to slander the man to cover their criminal action makes it that much worse.

He was not drunk, clearly he would not have been allowed to board if he had been, his skin color has nothing to do with anything, and his past is his business, not the airline's business.

A business that treats people that way, for any reason, has no right to stay in business.

[silverdoctor]

As it turns out, the flight wasn't overbooked.

United Airlines says controversial flight was not overbooked; CEO apologizes again


United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said Tuesday that all 70 seats on United Express Flight 3411 were filled, but the plane was not overbooked as the airline previously reported. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines, which operated the flight, selected four passengers to be removed to accommodate crew members needed in Louisville the next day. The passengers were selected based on a combination of criteria spelled out in United’s contract of carriage, including frequent-flier status, fare type, check-in time and connecting flight implications, among others, according to United.

And to make matters worse, the CEO circulated an email about the incident.


Wow, Brand suicide isn't the word.


And the doctor lawyers up.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by lmtada

United Airlines " Not enough seating, Prepare for a Beating".

Lmao!!!!

I literally spit my beer across the table!!!!

Lol... Lordy that's a darn good one...

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Lmao!!!!

I literally spit my beer across the table!!!!

Lol... Lordy that's a darn good one...

United Airlines.

We can fly
you can cry.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

No, contrary to what many sheeple think, a company can NOT enforce any rule, any way they want, at any time they want, no matter what their "literature" says or what you signed. FYI, any company rule has to be consistent with legal precedent and human rights regs or it may well be totally voided not matter who signed or bought anything. Word to the wise. If you get someone to sign off that they agree to their own murder...don't do it!...that contract may not be legally binding! I know...the guy signed right..their word and honor m'right?! But just sayin' in case someone was getting idea's based on Rugs input. LOL

If you are told to leave private property and you refuse you are trespassing, paid fare or not. If you refuse then they can use escalating force as is reasonable given the resistance or fight that you put up until.you are removed.

If you are kicked off then you leave and sue them. That's your recourse. Not acting like a spoiled child that refuses to give up your fruit loops.

And no reasonable person read into Rugs statement the bizarre rabbit trail you went down.

[KinAlberta]

However, I wonder if they might have put some patient at risk. Not likely... As remotely possible as it is, I can imagine a scenario or two where voluntary but apparently, thoughtless actions like this could have a domino effect.

I also wonder what would have happened if the man was of a high office or high profile, etc. If the airline staff thought from the beginning that the randomly or algorithmically picked person could complain, go public and somehow get them fired, would they have stuck to policy or had second thoughts about bringing in the security people and said: screw the policy or it will screw us (ie we have brains). The old flight or fight response.

37,000 words. No problemo. I'll read it before my next flight.

Bare feet. Appearing intoxicated. Smelling bad. United Airlines can remove passengers from flights for dozens of reasons. And each provision is detailed in the nearly 37,000-word document called a “contract of carriage” that every passenger accepts when buying a ticket.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...age/100331176/

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

As it turns out, the flight wasn't overbooked.



And to make matters worse, the CEO circulated an email about the incident.


Wow, Brand suicide isn't the word.


And the doctor lawyers up.

As soon as this story broke, I bet every big time ambulance chaser in the United States were blowing up the phone of the doctor. This has big time undisclosed settlement written all over it.