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  #31  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:21 PM
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This one drew plenty of blood



So did this one...



LC
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  #32  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lastlatvian View Post
I will keep a open mind and appreciate the feedback but logically and mathematically it doesn't make sense to me that something replaces 5%+ or - - gained speed on impact is mechanically advantageous to a fix position blade. I subscribe to the cameron hanes school of thought that expanding blades need to essentially slow down your arrow to open the blade which mechanically can't be as efficient as something already set and penetrating in it's position upon impact.

If my goal is to harvest meat I want the largest holes in a animal to bleed/kill it as clean and fast as possible. Limiting the process by adding a expansion/slow down process limits the body from scabbing/heavy blood flow at the impact point as well as limits the blades ability to allow blood to escape the body until it opens. Consider a mosquito vs a tick, the mosquito cuts the whole process and a tick burrows like a expanding blade, which one draws more blood?
You have made up your mind and that is fine. It is always good to hunt with equipment that you have confidence in...but.......no changed my mind "no but" have a great season!
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  #33  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:37 PM
lastlatvian lastlatvian is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
This one drew plenty of blood



So did this one...



LC
Those are some good shots, the second one I like the most because you can tell you got a good a lung shot with the blood froth. I just don't think it's possible the surface area impact of a fixed blade to volume ratio can be beat with a expand blade. I am not arguing if you can still get the job done well with a expanding blade. You obviously can.
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  #34  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by lastlatvian View Post
Those are some good shots, the second one I like the most because you can tell you got a good a lung shot with the blood froth. I just don't think it's possible the surface area impact of a fixed blade to volume ratio can be beat with a expand blade. I am not arguing if you can still get the job done well with a expanding blade. You obviously can.
The more surface area of the cutting blades and diameter the greater the wound channel and damage potential....this all assuming proper deployment and penetration.

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Old 06-11-2018, 08:18 AM
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if it helps i've tried a lot of broadheads from tiny fixed to large mechanical, seem to get the most impressive blood trails and shortest recoveries from 1 1/4-1 1/2" mechanicals. Dead is dead and i really like performance from 1"-1 1/4" fixed heads too, little less blood but still plenty, and bit longer trails but still short enough...

one thing is for sure, these critters aren't gelatin, there's no constant suction/friction to the shaft limiting true animal penetration testing abilities, bad hits are bad hits, doesn't matter the head, every single one whether considered tough or not, has killed just fine when the shooter does their part

choose more for other reasons, personal preferences, design features that make sense to you, etc.

i put grim reapers against any fixed head for any comparison imaginable on game, the original 1 3/8" razortips are tough af and penetration isn't even an issue to consider imo, they were eye opening and meet their amazing reputation, i like knowing that there are some gold standards you can always go back to or rely on when you're in the mood to experiment or change things up...the grim reapers original 1 3/8" is 'thee' head in that department for mechanicals imo

really love the design of the wasp drone, simple, very sleek, and affordable so i will go that route for a bit and maybe it carries on maybe it doesn't, as i've done with many heads over the years
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  #36  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
if it helps i've tried a lot of broadheads from tiny fixed to large mechanical, seem to get the most impressive blood trails and shortest recoveries from 1 1/4-1 1/2" mechanicals. Dead is dead and i really like performance from 1"-1 1/4" fixed heads too, little less blood but still plenty, and bit longer trails but still short enough...

one thing is for sure, these critters aren't gelatin, there's no constant suction/friction to the shaft limiting true animal penetration testing abilities, bad hits are bad hits, doesn't matter the head, every single one whether considered tough or not, has killed just fine when the shooter does their part

choose more for other reasons, personal preferences, design features that make sense to you, etc.

i put grim reapers against any fixed head for any comparison imaginable on game, the original 1 3/8" razortips are tough af and penetration isn't even an issue to consider imo, they were eye opening and meet their amazing reputation, i like knowing that there are some gold standards you can always go back to or rely on when you're in the mood to experiment or change things up...the grim reapers original 1 3/8" is 'thee' head in that department for mechanicals imo

really love the design of the wasp drone, simple, very sleek, and affordable so i will go that route for a bit and maybe it carries on maybe it doesn't, as i've done with many heads over the years


Totally agree...I am trying the 4 blade Tooth of The Arrow heads this year, hopefully Iíll have field reports to share.

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  #37  
Old 06-11-2018, 03:28 PM
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I was hoping to shoot the 4 blade Tooth Of The Arrow today, but the howling winds kept me from it. I will add something to the mix however, a 4 blade broadhead versus a 3 blade broadhead of similar diameters will by far out bleed it hands down. Back in the day I used muzzy original 100 3blade (1-1/8") and muzzy original 4 blades (1") and the 4 blade version was far superior with respect to bleed-out versus the 3 blade it should be noted that the 3 blade muzzy was one of the standards of the day along with thunderheads

This is one of the main reasons I am looking forward to shooting the tooth of the arrow 125 grain 4 blade. They should be devastating!

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  #38  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by normanrd View Post
I was hoping to shoot the 4 blade Tooth Of The Arrow today, but the howling winds kept me from it. I will add something to the mix however, a 4 blade broadhead versus a 3 blade broadhead of similar diameters will by far out bleed it hands down. Back in the day I used muzzy original 100 3blade (1-1/8") and muzzy original 4 blades (1") and the 4 blade version was far superior with respect to bleed-out versus the 3 blade it should be noted that the 3 blade muzzy was one of the standards of the day along with thunderheads

This is one of the main reasons I am looking forward to shooting the tooth of the arrow 125 grain 4 blade. They should be devastating!

Norm
i was shooting at that time too, they flat out work, still do, there was a simplicity to those heads that i like also, i think the wasp drone is a modern take on the old muzzy 3 blades...the ferrule is half the diameter, so is the tip, shorter blades with steeper angles seem to cut bigger than diameter suggest vs long swept back blades, but the shorter fly better and catch less wind which is ideal for modern speeds etc.

i know they will all work, just choose your preferences and try several, the slick trick is the four blade that really got peoples attention so adding a blade does definitely make cuts but also adds drag can limit penetration? i question how many blades enough? the symmetry of a 3 blade doing triangle 360 degree holes makes most sense to me, i like larger two blades with bleeders too...they all work
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  #39  
Old 06-12-2018, 11:51 AM
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IMHO, TOTA brings together the best of the Slick Trick and the best of the Montec into one....as far as fixed goes, itís the new standard and the one to beat IMHO.

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Old 06-12-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
IMHO, TOTA brings together the best of the Slick Trick and the best of the Montec into one....as far as fixed goes, itís the new standard and the one to beat IMHO.

LC
I was reading that the cutting diameter is only 1" on the TOTA and with no shock trauma from an arrow (like a bullet) has the norm not been that the larger cutting area is better?

Shot placement is always number with any kind of shooting and you may very will be right but I was just curious why you think this 1" blade will be the new fixed standard?
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  #41  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bobalong View Post
I was reading that the cutting diameter is only 1" on the TOTA and with no shock trauma from an arrow (like a bullet) has the norm not been that the larger cutting area is better?

Shot placement is always number with any kind of shooting and you may very will be right but I was just curious why you think this 1" blade will be the new fixed standard?
Itís 4 blade, so that helps...a buddies 71 year old mother put one through a moose at 32 yards with a 30 yard recovery, 41 lbs draw.

Was like a garden hose.

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Old 06-12-2018, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Itís 4 blade, so that helps...a buddies 71 year old mother put one through a moose at 32 yards with a 30 yard recovery, 41 lbs draw.

Was like a garden hose.

LC
That is a prime example of a 4 blade head versus a 3 blade I was getting at. All things being equal, the hole from the 4 blade flows more freely than the hole from the 3 blade in my experience anyway. The Tooth of The Arrow heads are ridiculously sharp out of the package as well so it is easy to see why they make stuff dead in such a hurry.

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  #43  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:00 PM
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just checked these tooth of the arrow's out...looks like a slick trick to me or really what's the difference? wac em triton, and there's g5 strykers that look similar as well for 3 blade same designs like that

i like the smaller diam. tips/points of the slick trick better and the wasp drone, and not a fan of 4 blades myself, don't see the benefit of added drag over smaller diameter, i do agree with the two blade mechanicals with bleeder capability though in terms of added benefit over say smaller fixed four...all personal preference

the drone is fresh design on old school proven 3 blade, skinnier little tip for less drag till the blades start but start alignment through critter and have something tough at the tip to pave the way...by all accounts they fly like darts, spin out of the box without fuss etc.
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  #44  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
just checked these tooth of the arrow's out...looks like a slick trick to me or really what's the difference? wac em triton, and there's g5 strykers that look similar as well for 3 blade same designs like that

i like the smaller diam. tips/points of the slick trick better and the wasp drone, and not a fan of 4 blades myself, don't see the benefit of added drag over smaller diameter, i do agree with the two blade mechanicals with bleeder capability though in terms of added benefit over say smaller fixed four...all personal preference

the drone is fresh design on old school proven 3 blade, skinnier little tip for less drag till the blades start but start alignment through critter and have something tough at the tip to pave the way...by all accounts they fly like darts, spin out of the box without fuss etc.
The thing I like is the completely one piece construction, ability to re-sharpen, and the low profile with 4 blades.

I was skeptical at first on how much they would drift compared to my trusty Grim Reaper, so I met up with my buddy unscrewed a Grim put on a TOTA and took aim in a decent breeze at an 80 yard dot. I shot and the arrow hit roughly 5-6 inches left...I grabbed an arrow tipped with a Grim, shot..and 0.5Ē away from the TOTA that arrow made its mark.

I wouldnít have believed it if I hadnít seen it. The fixed and the mechanical drifted pretty much exactly the same...the TOTA also penetrated further into the bale. I just screwed the head on, didnít tune it or index it and it flew comparable to the Grim Reaper. I love my Grims but I am going to give these some more testing.

I used to use MUZZY 3 and 4, Sonorans, WASP, Thunderheads...never Rage! LOL.

Grims were before their time IMHO and these TOTA are as good a fixed or better than I have used.

LC
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  #45  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
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Mechanical...Grim Reaper Razor tip Originals, way before their time...


LC
Have you had a negative experience with the chisle tip ones?
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  #46  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:48 PM
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Have you had a negative experience with the chisle tip ones?
No I just prefer a trocar tip with the bleeders, I have had a pro series machined tip chip off when it encountered a leg bone. Look close at the broadhead on the mule deer in the pic above, the tip chipped and one blade bent. It did the trick and not really concerned about it but Never had a trocar do that.

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  #47  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:47 PM
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Default Razorback 5 Broadhead

These are the 5 bladed broadhead used in the "Rambo" movie without removing the broadhead safety cover. The blades were changeable as a cartridge assembly.
These are no longer available but has anyone ever used these and were you satisfied with he performance?
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  #48  
Old 06-12-2018, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
just checked these tooth of the arrow's out...looks like a slick trick to me or really what's the difference? wac em triton, and there's g5 strykers that look similar as well for 3 blade same designs like that

i like the smaller diam. tips/points of the slick trick better and the wasp drone, and not a fan of 4 blades myself, don't see the benefit of added drag over smaller diameter, i do agree with the two blade mechanicals with bleeder capability though in terms of added benefit over say smaller fixed four...all personal preference

the drone is fresh design on old school proven 3 blade, skinnier little tip for less drag till the blades start but start alignment through critter and have something tough at the tip to pave the way...by all accounts they fly like darts, spin out of the box without fuss etc.
There's the difference in the dimensions in addition to the other benefits Lefty mentioned

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  #49  
Old 06-12-2018, 11:21 PM
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I bought the Cabelas Copperpoints in 100 grain. Apparently they are almost identical to the Montec G5 broadheads. I checked and the Cabelas ones have three of the same patents as Montec, and apparently they're made for Canelas by Montec. I plan to do a review of the Cabelas, Montec and a fake eBay "Montec G5" once they come in. Stay tuned haha.
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  #50  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:19 AM
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There's the difference in the dimensions in addition to the other benefits Lefty mentioned

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Thanks! I like the top one but i like when they have a tip that start the path ahead of the blades. Couldn't tell you if it makes a difference, just personal preference, and that's a pretty steep blade angle too on the bottom one. Shows the differences well in that pic. Would love to see the drone in that comparison.
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  #51  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:41 AM
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http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/gear-ac...roadhead-test/

the drone trocar style chisel tip is like half the diameter of the old school muzzy trocar tip, not sure why that appeals to me but those are nasty tips and skinnier will penetrate better, that's why the drone reminds me of an original muzzy but modernized and the basic workhorse choice in the group, very sharp, shorter steeper for distance accuracy and wind bucking, some of those tests don't matter a lick to hunting but some good info in there anyway, enjoy
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  #52  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:26 PM
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Fixed for me. I tested several a few years back: slick tricks, wac ems, montecs, solids, and ram cats.

For me, wac ems and slick tricks were significantly better than the others, with wac ems taking top spot by a small margin. I have them dialed in almost exactly with field tips out to 100. I find any broadhead will inevitably hit slightly low at 70 and beyond (compared to field tips), just simply based on the fact that they experience more drag.
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  #53  
Old 06-14-2018, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Screamrider View Post
Fixed for me. I tested several a few years back: slick tricks, wac ems, montecs, solids, and ram cats.

For me, wac ems and slick tricks were significantly better than the others, with wac ems taking top spot by a small margin. I have them dialed in almost exactly with field tips out to 100. I find any broadhead will inevitably hit slightly low at 70 and beyond (compared to field tips), just simply based on the fact that they experience more drag.
wac ems did really well in that test above too, and ultra sharp, they were on my short list and should likely be on everyone's who love fixed and shoot long, bit obscure on the name...great feedback
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  #54  
Old 06-14-2018, 07:37 AM
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The Tooth of The Arrow fixed are going to be my focus on testing this year, weird name admittedly but they shoot and work extremely well from the stuff my buddy has done with them. He was skeptical at first too...but has full confidence in them.

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Old 06-14-2018, 09:10 AM
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They will work good and be tough no doubt.

I dissected the link above with the 16 broadheads tested to show what drew me to the drone to try next.

I only cared about 4 factors in that test:

1. Price
2. Combined pentration
3. Drag
4. Sharpness

The other tests don't matter to me as i know they all will do the job on game just fine.

The Drone was #3 for combined penetration, #4 for drag, #7 for sharpness, tied for #1 on price with the Wac Em.

The Wac em was #13 on combined penetration, #11 on drag, #1 on sharpness and because it gave 4 broadheads for 40 bucks it ties the wasp giving 3 broadheads for 30 bucks although the wasp includes a couple sets of blade replacements it could be considered the #1 value.

As a comparison i used montec also which i killed a lot of game with and really happy with it's performance and flight. It went #7 on combined penetration, #2 on drag, #14 on sharpness and 42 bucks for 3 heads made it a crap value imo.

I gave 3 blade heads the edge as my personal preference, seems drag figures show the same as i imagine not only do the drag figures talk about drag through air in flight, it will also relate to drag through the animal, seemed to show that in combined penetration testing also. There's just no physics to show otherwise really. An extra blade is an extra blade.

Included into this is the QAD Exodus, a short steep angled head like the TOTA but it's 3 blade. The Exodus did #1 on combined penetration, #5 on drag, #3 on sharpness, and 40 bucks for 3 so pretty standard price it seems.

In reality the qad exodus looks really good by my choices but that price. Surprised by it's penetration ability for it's cut diam. with those steep blade angles.
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  #56  
Old 06-14-2018, 09:30 AM
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I was honestly shocked but very pleased when I put the TOTA against a Grim Reaper in a basic field wind drift test, there was literally no appreciable difference. Between the two the wind effect is roughly the same (I honestly thought no way it would be) more importantly it proved how well my bow was tuned.

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Old 06-17-2018, 06:16 PM
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I just switched to QAD EXODUS 125 grains and Iíve had great accuracy from them. Better than I can shoot anyways. Iíve shot them out to 60 with no issues. Fixed is definitely your best bet: besides the chance they donít open, the process of opening takes so much energy that you lose penetration.

Look for a Broadhead with a shorter length/surface area, they will tend to shoot more like a field point, be easier to tune, and affected less by wind. Thatís been my experience anyways.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:22 PM
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80 yards uphill 18-20 degrees, calm no wind. The two arrows I am touching are field points the other two in the dot are broadheads, Tooth of The Arrow 100gr.



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Old 06-19-2018, 05:50 AM
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good shooting man!
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  #60  
Old 06-19-2018, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
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good shooting man!
Thanks, happy my bow keeps a wicked tune! Nice to have a broadhead fly similar and impact the same as field points out past the distance I would normally hunt. Itís good to have full confidence in a setup if you need to take a follow up shot past normal hunting range. Even after shooting this head 10-15 times they were still razor sharp.

LC
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