Hornady SST question

[Crabman]

First of all I am very new to this or any other foum and I hope I have figured out how it works. I have a question on the Hornady SST in .338. Has anyone used this bullet for hunting out of the monster 338's {eg. 338 RUM or Lapua}at high velosities. I have just started loading for my new 338Lapua and have had great success with the 225 gr. grouping under .5of a inch at 100m. The question is are these bullets going too fast to properly expand on large game such as Moose and Elk, because I haven't found anything from Hornady saying what velocities these bullets should be shot at for proper expansion unlike Nosler states a min and max velocity for proper expansion of their Accubonds.

Thanks Crabman

[Homesteader]

I have never used them, but.............my guess is you would want to keep impact velocities below say 2800fps, and for me that would be a broadside shot. My guess which is just that is that if this bullet encounters heavy bone at any speed it will come unglued. At ranges past 2-300yds it might be okay, but sure wouldn't be my choice for a big 338 or even a 338 Win Mag.

Use a Interbond, Accubond, or Scirroco, if you want a flat shooter that will still handle big critters.

[ceedub]

I can't comment specifically on the 338's, however, my 257 Weatherby groups 117gr SST's to 1/2" groups, the best of anything I've tried. The performance on game though is not great, similar to other bullets of this type they seem to break up with the high velocity loads. Too bad, I haven't found a more accurate bullet yet.

Craig

[ACKLEY ABE]

Wow, timing is everything. I spoke to Doug Derner at Honady yesterday with the same question. Bullet selection for the 338 Lapua and or 338 Edge. He highly recomennded the Interbond and said that they have found a 85% wt retention with it. He also likes the old 250 gr sp. They have done research on 300 grain bullets and have been unable to satbilize them so have no current intention of producing a 300.

I have talked to Doug several times over the years and he is very helpful (also Bob). They are quite happy to share their information with you. If you want to contact them...1.800.338.3220. They are also bring out a "gilding metal" type bullet in 338 in the near future. If I were you, I'd give him a call. As far as loading info, they, like everone will be conservative with load data.

[elkhunter11]

The question is are these bullets going too fast to properly expand on large game such as Moose and Elk,

The idea that a bullet is traveling too fast to expand is nothing more than a myth.The faster that a bullet travels,the more that it expands.The problem with too high of velocity is that the bullet may fragment and not penetrate properly.

[bucknaked333]

I shoot the 300wsm and a buddy also, last year we got a elk and a moose with the sst's. They dropped them in there tracks, and deadly accurate, 3" group at 300yards with little effort. The only reason I would not use them again is no pass through and the expanded way to much, only the last bit of the boattail was left. Maybe 10 grains out of 180. I am a big hornady fan just that bullet doesn't work for what I want. I think next year I am going to try the GMX, it looks like my new favorite..

[Copidosoma]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The idea that a bullet is traveling too fast to expand is nothing more than a myth.The faster that a bullet travels,the more that it expands.The problem with too high of velocity is that the bullet may fragment and not penetrate properly.

Some would say that this is improper expansion.

I don't know about the .338s but the heavier .308 (180gr.) was made with a thicker jacket to slow expansion. I'd proceed carefully with them and not trust them to go through bone well. Use an accubond for that.

[elkhunter11]

Some would say that this is improper expansion.

Most people just call it fragmentation.

I don't know about the .338s but the heavier .308 (180gr.) was made with a thicker jacket to slow expansion.

The .308"-180gr Nosler Ballistic tip is designed with a thicker jacket,but the original poster is talking about the Hornady SST,which is an entirely different bullet.

Use an accubond for that.

The accubond will hold together better than the SST,but since he apparently has had good success with Hornady bullets,He may want to try the Interbond,which is the Hornady equivalent to the Accubond..

[222rem]

Originally Posted by bucknaked333

I shoot the 300wsm and a buddy also, last year we got a elk and a moose with the sst's. They dropped them in there tracks, and deadly accurate, 3" group at 300yards with little effort. The only reason I would not use them again is no pass through and the expanded way to much, only the last bit of the boattail was left. Maybe 10 grains out of 180. I am a big hornady fan just that bullet doesn't work for what I want. I think next year I am going to try the GMX, it looks like my new favorite..

What more do you want from a bullet pack your game out of the bush ?

[Traps]

When you run a gun that can push at high speeds your options for regular hunting bullets goes south. Try winchester failsafe or barnes. With the barnes they'll lose their petals at around 2700 fps and then penetrate further then most of the rest. Bonus is they are made of copper to boot, bad thing is they might copper foul your barrel. IMO if you hand load, produce some reduced loads to "normal" speeds then your options for effective bullets goes up, if you don't handload, go buy some reduced loads. All these guns that go faster than 2800-3000 fps are good for showing up in camp with the biggest gun for bragging rights, cause who really shoots game at more than 300 yards anyways. Go search out "Shooting Holes in Wounding Theories" on the net it has testing that has been done, you might be surprised on the results of the faster guns like 8mm Rem Mag's, 7 mm Rem Mag, etc. IMO a 7mm, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, etc are great deer guns period, unless you run at lower speeds I would take another gun out of the case for elk and moose. Again, this is just my opinion.

[elkhunter11]

With the barnes they'll lose their petals at around 2700 fps and then penetrate further then most of the rest.

i have taken animals where the impact speed exceeded 300 fps,and all petals remained intact.The tsx,ttsx and mrx do not shed petals nearly as easily as the original x bullet.

The tsx below was recovered from an elk and all four petals are intact,despite the impact velocity of over 2900fps,and the fact that it smashed a considerable amount of bone.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...1/PA050015.jpg

Bonus is they are made of copper to boot, bad thing is they might copper foul your barrel.

The original x bullets were notorious for copper fouling,but the tsx,mrx,and ttsx no longer have such issues in most rifles.

Go search out "Shooting Holes in Wounding Theories" on the net it has testing that has been done, you might be surprised on the results of the faster guns like 8mm Rem Mag's, 7 mm Rem Mag, etc. IMO a 7mm, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, etc are great deer guns period, unless you run at lower speeds I would take another gun out of the case for elk and moose. Again, this is just my opinion.

I have taken numerous elk and moose with very high velocity cartridges such as the 7mmstw and the 300ultramag,and they provided larger wound channels,and quicker kills than lower velocity cartridges used by myself or my hunting partners.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Traps

When you run a gun that can push at high speeds your options for regular hunting bullets goes south. Try winchester failsafe or barnes. With the barnes they'll lose their petals at around 2700 fps and then penetrate further then most of the rest. Bonus is they are made of copper to boot, bad thing is they might copper foul your barrel. IMO if you hand load, produce some reduced loads to "normal" speeds then your options for effective bullets goes up, if you don't handload, go buy some reduced loads. All these guns that go faster than 2800-3000 fps are good for showing up in camp with the biggest gun for bragging rights, cause who really shoots game at more than 300 yards anyways. Go search out "Shooting Holes in Wounding Theories" on the net it has testing that has been done, you might be surprised on the results of the faster guns like 8mm Rem Mag's, 7 mm Rem Mag, etc. IMO a 7mm, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, etc are great deer guns period, unless you run at lower speeds I would take another gun out of the case for elk and moose. Again, this is just my opinion.

I dunno about your Barnes theories.

here is a .257" 100gr. TSX recovered after an impact velocity of about 3400fps.


All 4 petals are intact!!

Here is a Branes X original .277" 100gr. recovered withan impact velocity of about 3450fps.(bullet is now discontinued)


In case your wondering it's the one on the left!!!! You know the one with 4 petals

[Traps]

Not hard to rouse the know it all's. Glad I could be of service.

[Cal]

Yes thank you traps! I especily love elk's method of picking a guys post apart line by line and getting all sticky on the wording. I for one knew what that guy was talking about when he said "improper expansion". I was not under the impression that he thought his bullets would be traveling so fast that they would fail to expand at all! I also thought that traps made a pretty darn good post in respect to higher velocity magnums requiring tough bullets. It seems that lots of guys think that because they do NOT have a enormus magnum that they need tough bullets to compesate when the exact oposite has proven true in my experience. Just dont underestimate the the barns again young man!!!

P.S. maby elk could pick this one apart and fix the commas or show me where my wording was not exactly text book

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by traps

not hard to rouse the know it all's. Glad i could be of service.

troll

[Copidosoma]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The .308"-180gr Nosler Ballistic tip is designed with a thicker jacket,but the original poster is talking about the Hornady SST,which is an entirely different bullet.

I was also referring to the SST.

[elkhunter11]

I was not under the impression that he thought his bullets would be traveling so fast that they would fail to expand at all! I

But unfortunately some people still believe that old myth.The wording in the post made me wonder if the poster was one of those people.

I was also referring to the SST

I have found the SST to be very similar to the lighter weight Ballistic tips,but the recent .308"- 180gr Ballistic tips have thicker jackets than the 180gr SST that I sectioned.The recent Ballistic tip that I sectioned had a jacket just as thick as the 180gr Accubond.The only difference between the two bullets was the bonded core.

I don't have a photograph of the sectioned SST,but I do have one of the .308" -180gr ballistic tip alongside the accubond.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...1/P7230005.jpg

[Crabman]

Yes Elk I was under the impression that my bullet may not even expand due to the synthetic tip. I have been told by many people when those type of tips are going too fast they just might pencil hole the animal. The other thing I am worried about is the bullet gernading on impact from the higher speeds, especally if you hit any type of bone on the way in.

I thank you all for the information and I will now and try the bullets sugested to me and see if I can get the groups the SST 's give me.The SST's will not go to waste, they should make Coyotes go pop in the distance.

Thanks again Crabman

[elkhunter11]

I thank you all for the information and I will now and try the bullets sugested to me and see if I can get the groups the SST 's give me.The SST's will not go to waste, they should make Coyotes go pop in the distance.

You are very welcome.I have driven the lighter weight ballistic tips at speeds of 3500fps and taken big game as close as 20 yards with them,They most certainly do expand at high velocity,but they do considerable damage when they strike heavy bone at those speeds.I currently prefer other bullets for elk and moose,even though the .308"-180gr ballistic tip did a good job on eight elk and two moose that I took with them.

I was not under the impression that he thought his bullets would be traveling so fast that they would fail to expand at all!

Does the statement below change your mind?

Yes Elk I was under the impression that my bullet may not even expand due to the synthetic tip. I have been told by many people when those type of tips are going too fast they just might pencil hole the animal.

[Copidosoma]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But unfortunately some people still believe that old myth.The wording in the post made me wonder if the poster was one of those people.



I have found the SST to be very similar to the lighter weight Ballistic tips,but the recent .308"- 180gr Ballistic tips have thicker jackets than the 180gr SST that I sectioned.The recent Ballistic tip that I sectioned had a jacket just as thick as the 180gr Accubond.The only difference between the two bullets was the bonded core.

I don't have a photograph of the sectioned SST,but I do have one of the .308" -180gr ballistic tip alongside the accubond.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...1/P7230005.jpg

I'm certainly not disputing your findings. The information I had (about the 180 SST having thicker walls) was based on discussions about too rapid expansion. Someone mentioned that Hornady was changing the wall diameter of the 180gr. to make them a bit "tougher".

From their catalogue:
They started with the proven design of our InterLock™
bullet, and added a sharp, pointed tip to cut through
the air for faster, flatter shooting. Hornady engineers
then tackled the problem of too-rapid expansion that
plagues many tipped bullets and by combining a
one-piece core and strengthening the jacket in critical
areas, the SST® became a bullet that delivers controlled
expansion, superior weight retention, and massive
shock for a clean, quick kill.

I was under the impression that it was only the heavier bullets that had this treatment. Perhaps it is across the board. Either way, I don't know what the story is with .338 SST.

[sbtennex]

Don't have my Hornady book handy, but seems to me I recall the SST as being designed for up to 3400 fps impact velocity. A 225 gr .338 @ 3400 fps is one hell of a big load. And yeah, Hornady beefed up the .338 jackets. Should be fine...

[Andrzej]

I am relatively new to 338 Win Mag but have experience with Hornady SST
in 7 STW and 338WM.
Few examples.
Deer 7 mm STW 139 SST Hornady at 3450 ft/sec ,2 shots poorly placed on walking WT buck at 200y....wasted both hind quarters... Other WT broadside 80y proper placement ENTRY fist size, no exit bullet fragmented.

In 2006 I've shot wolf at 320 yards with same bullet, neck shot entry 2". Than 10 minutes later Big Black Bear showed up to claim this wolf from us, he stood 30 feet from us and shot between eyes dropped him dead, NO EXIT hole and his skull was in 150 pieces and I was glad that I used "explosive"SST.

For my 338 WM I am loading two bullets in 225 gr one is Barnes TTSX and second SST Hornady. Ballistically they are similar. I mostly shoot TTSX but I keep SST for close range shots to dispatch them if needed.
I would not hesitate to take long shots with those bullets either.

They will work fine with proper shot placement.

[Traps]

Crabman

I had that pencil hole in and out happen with 270 winchester 130 gr at 75 yards on a deer just behind the front shoulder. It went through the lungs and it went 150 yards before piling up. The exit was not impressive.
Go to this website to help your decision making if you want more information.

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/b...s/methods.html

[elkhunter11]

I had that pencil hole in and out happen with 270 winchester 130 gr at 75 yards on a deer just behind the front shoulder.

When myself and my hunting partners used the Nosler partition,small entrance and exit holes were the norm.The bullet entered the chest cavity,expanded rapidly,usually shedding the front core,then the remaining jacket and rear core exited leaving a small diameter hole,since it only had a small cross section after shedding the front core.Deer often ran 50 to 150 yards before piling up.This was common performance for the partition whether it was used in a 270win 30-06 or a 7mmstw,and whether the bullet was light for caliber,or heavy for caliber.
Yet when I shoot deer with the 140gr ballistic tip out of my 7mmst with a muzzle velocity of 3500fps,kills are usually very dramatic with most animals dropping on the spot,or within a few steps.The closer the range,the higher the impact velocity,the more tissue damage,the quicker the kill.With over thirty kills on big game with this combination,I have never had a single bullet fail to expand.
The results were similar when I used the 180gr ballistic tip at 3340fps out of my 300ultramag on moose and elk.Not a single failure to expand on ten animals.
In total ,I have taken about forty big game animals with the nosler ballistic tip,and not one bullet failed to expand.
The only instance where I ever questioned bullet expansion was when a hunting partner used a 180gr bullet for hunting moose.The range was about 300 yards,and the moose walked away through the brush after being shot.The moose bedded and was shot again through the neck as we approached it.When we dressed the moose,it was evident that the bullet passed through the chest between the ribs,and did not expand as much as we thought that it should.The bullet was a 180gr grand slam.

[Traps]

I like quick kills too, as humane as possible, the only thing I don't like is damaged and contaminated meat, so its a balancing act. In my hunting world I like my bullet and its lead to hold together at lower speeds and retain and penetrate as much as possible. In the end its what floats your boat, there are no levels of dead.

[munyee4321]

Once again as the rest of the fellows.... I have not used the sst in my .338win mag. However I do use them out of my 7mm rem mag. 162grains about 2950fps.

Very cheap and very accurate round.

I love using these for deer, the furthest iv had a deer go using these is about 30yards. Typically most deer i have shot with an sst have dropped on the spot. These bullets shined for me during my CWD hunt in 07, shots ranged from 100-300yards and only one deer of the 6 ran(about 30yards) the other 5 dropped on the spot. Bullets have been recovered one from the cwd hunt from a doe shot at 300yards steep quartering away ( found bullet lodged near the neck) all other deer where through and through double lung shots. And one from 06 in wt buck shot at about 125yards. The 125 yard shot had about 75% weight retention while the 300yard shot has 82% weight retention.

[Cal]

I have often wondered, instead of putting plastic tips on bullets to make them expand better why not go to a lighter bullet instead? I remember reading an artical where a guy was using tough little 115 grain .270 bullets out of a wsm. Being a gun writer he of course reported that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, since when is a new product not a great product to a gun writer? But It did get me thinking.

Perhaps someone can tell me how the BC or some other number I'm not taking into acount would make this a bad idea.

[elkhunter11]

I have often wondered, instead of putting plastic tips on bullets to make them expand better why not go to a lighter bullet instead?

The pointed tip lowers the BC and promotes expansion by acting as a wedge.Using a lighter bullet of the same design normally reduces the BC,and does not increase the rate of expansion as much as a synthetic wedge does.
The plastic tips also prevent tip deformation.A lighter lead tipped bullet will still suffer from tip deformation.

[Cal]

You realy think that the lower BC would be such a handycap that the velocity gains would not be able to give a flater trajectory at ranges that are comonly encountered even in long range hunting? As for the expansion thing I've never felt that a regular soft point bullet did not offer fast enough expansion. The lighter bullet's higher impact velocity would speed expansion as well as its reduced sectional density. I think a 125 grain .30 cal soft point would expand at least as fast as a 150 grain tipped bullet. Cant argue with you on the tip deformation but if that was the only downside to flatter trajectory and higher velocity, which as you yourself said seems to equal quicker kills I'd take it.

[elkhunter11]

You realy think that the lower BC would be such a handycap that the velocity gains would not be able to give a flater trajectory at ranges that are comonly encountered even in long range hunting? As for the expansion thing I've never felt that a regular soft point bullet did not offer fast enough expansion. The lighter bullet's higher impact velocity would speed expansion as well as its reduced sectional density. I think a 125 grain .30 cal soft point would expand at least as fast as a 150 grain tipped bullet. Cant argue with you on the tip deformation but if that was the only downside to flatter trajectory and higher velocity, which as you yourself said seems to equal quicker kills I'd take it.

The very light bullets like the 125gr .308 bullet shed velocity very quickly,so they aren't great at long range,and the wind drift is more significant as well.When they do expand,they normally retain so little weight,that they often don't penetrate well ,even on smaller game like deer.The lightest weight bullets can easily be driven well above the design impact velocities in some cartridges,and they can fragment,and barely penetrate at all,as a result.The exception to this is a bullet like the tsx,because it does not shed weight like a lead core bullet,so it still offers great penetration at the lighter weights.But it still doesn't have a great BC,and the ballistics aren't great at longer ranges.There are also rifles that don't shoot the very short,lighter weight bullets accurately,so having other options is nice.