Trapdoor!

[Opalsasquatch]

I haven’t posted anything in here in a while, but I thought I’d share a fairly recent addition to the compound.

It’s now the oldest member, and the only antique I have.

Thought a few here would enjoy seeing it.

1884 Springfield Trapdoor, with an interesting accessory- a matching drop in muzzle loader barrel and moulds in .45 cal

I have shot the muzzle loader with patched round ball, but haven’t worked up the nerve to test the original barrelled action.

Any tips and tricks for these old guys would be appreciated (ahem,.. Catnthehat?)

[Opalsasquatch]

Thought I’d bump this up and see if anyone had any tips, tricks, or stories to tell about these old rifles


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[catnthehat]

Nice !
I have found that loading and shooting the trapdoors that I got a chance to, they had to be cleaned every five shots of so to keep accurate .
You may want to try several different bullet weights as well
Cat

[NW Tradegunner]

There’s sections in different reloading manuals that are specific for trapdoor rifles. They cannot take the same pressures as sharps, rolling blocks, falling blocks or mausers. Be careful!

[1886]

That’s a nice old rifle. Interesting that it has a muzzle loader barrel to go with it. I believe you should be using bullets that have wax in the grooves for that rifle.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by 1886

That’s a nice old rifle. Interesting that it has a muzzle loader barrel to go with it. I believe you should be using bullets that have wax in the grooves for that rifle.

The grease groves are likely inside the case .
Cat

[1886]

Ya I realize that they would be. Was just politely pointing out that the ones in the jar weren’t waxed (greased) in case he didn’t know they should be when they are loaded.

[Opalsasquatch]

Thanks guys,
Any suggestions for bullet size? I suppose I should slug the barrel before I do anything

It came with a few tins of fffg powder, where would a guy start with powder charge? 70gr volume? Whatever is slightly compressed?

My first foray into black powder, do be gentle

[saskbooknut]

You can't fit 70 grains of FFg in a 45/70 case, even with a long drop tube.
60 to 62 grains is more likely. I would not use FFFg.
You will find best performance of cast bullets with black powder, by using a bullet with deep grease grooves that hold lots of lube.

[NW Tradegunner]

There’s 2 books out there that will help you quite a bit: Loading Cartridges for the Original 45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine. By J.S. and Pat Wolf and the other one is The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Track of the Wolf should have them.

PM me for anymore info.

[catnthehat]

Paul Mathews also has several very good books out on shooting black powder cartridge rifles .
Cat

[Opalsasquatch]

Thanks for the suggestions. I believe a little reading is in order before doing anything else.

[Dean2]

So, couple of things to think about. Trapdoor of any make weren't real strong actions even brand new. Have you used a good 10X magnifier and closely examined all parts of the breech, action and barrel to action junction. Is the gun clean enough to see any potential cracks or other issue. The ML barrel will not put any pressure on the action as they usually have a breech plug that contains all the pressure inside the actual barrel. Shooting 45-70, this won't be true.

Next point, when loading black powder, ML or cases you must ensure there is ZERO air space between the powder and the bullet. If you leave an air gap you will be VERY unhappy with the outcome. This means that if you elect to start with a low load of 45 grains and work up that you need to fill that empty space properly.

You can make very low pressure loads with Trail Boss and it does not have the same air gap issues, it is also a whole bunch easier to clean up. Problem is the loads are very slow. At the same pressure or less you can load with 4895, Varget and a couple of other powders and get much better velocity. My favourite for low pressure 45-70 is Varget. Hodgdon publishes a good selection of smokeless low pressure Trapdoor specific loads on their site.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Post up the targets once you get it shooting.

[W921]

Since there doesn't seem to be much discussion on this I'm thinking no one will mind if I try to help???
I might have Alzheimer's or maybe its just stress but my memory isn't the best right now. I have stuff written down somewhere but its probably in the basement and I would have to dig for it.
Going from memory here are some basic things to get you started.
Make sure the bore riding section of that mould fits your actual bore. Also check the grove diameter of your Springfield and compare it to your bullets.
Smokeless bullet lube doesn't work good with black powder. I used to make my own. I rendered down fat and mixed it with real bees wax. After each shot, slowly blow down your barrel. Moist air keeps your fowling soft.
I like real black powder. Ff or fg use a 3 foot drop tube and slightly compress your powder when you seat you bullet.
Always use magnum large rifle primers.
This is a huge subject that your asking about but the better your bullet fits your rifles throat the better.
After you shoot you should drop your fired cases after you deprime them in vinegar. Just soak them for a minute. Actually just watch them in the vinegar and as soon as they stop fissing you take them out and rinse them under the tap with water to get the vinegar off of them. Then make sure they are completely dry before you try to reload them again.
I had a Springfield years ago. I love them.
Im thinking black powder will out perform smokeless in your trapdoor if done right.
I'm to tired to write more tonight.
Just make sure the gun is safe to shoot and I would not trust somebody else's reloads in that gun unless I really knew the guy.

[Opalsasquatch]

Thanks for all the comments guys

Once I source all my components and dies, I will definitely come back here with results

[Carriertxv]

One book to get is by JS and Pat Wolf 3rd edition. Just google and you will find it. It is one of the best concerning the trapdoor for cleaning and loading. Another is
The 45-70 Springfield by Joe Poyer and Craig Riesch. It will show you everything you want to know about a trapdoor. Also go here https://www.trapdoorcollector.com//index.html
The best forum for trapdoors.
Also if you want to get the best loading possible then you will need the proper expander for it. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1178/1 Has the proper expanders and powder compression die for reloading which is explained in Pat Wolfs book.
I use mostly the Lee 459 hollow base mould as this bullet works very well in mine.
I have loaded 70 grains of FF with either a 405 or 500 grain 20 to 1 lead/tin mix bullet but I get better groups with 65 grains and is user on my shoulder.
There is a lot to learn about the trapdoor if you want it to shoot the way that it is capable of and getting Wolfs book is a must.