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View Poll Results: Will you wear a cloth mask to prevent Covid spread when in tighter public confines?
Yes...I will voluntarily wear a cloth mask to protect others 111 34.26%
No...not until it is made a law will I wear a cloth mask 93 28.70%
Never...I refuse regardless if it’s a law 64 19.75%
I don’t care...may or may not wear a mask 56 17.28%
Voters: 324. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old 05-22-2020, 08:42 AM
Sporty Sporty is offline
 
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Originally Posted by CMichaud View Post
I tend to ignore all federal recommendations - no faith in Dr Tam nor the PM as experts.

I do have respect for Dr Hinshaw. I notice that she does not wear a mask at her updates - nor does the chap doing sign language. I think I saw the Premier of Quebec wearing one and of course our beloved PM. I suspect this is virtue signalling to calm the masses as they clearly are not in congested spaces when giving their respective media briefs.

From the AB Government site (I have bolded key bits)....

Albertans are encouraged to wear non-medical masks when out in public places where keeping a distance of 2 metres is difficult.

Medical masks (N95, surgical or procedure masks):
must be kept for health care workers and people providing direct care to COVID-19 patients

Non-medical masks (cloth or homemade):

- should only be used in addition to other protective steps
- are not proven to protect the person wearing it, but may help protect others
- cover your mouth and nose to prevent respiratory droplets from contaminating other people or surfaces
- must be worn and taken on/off properly as the outside can become contaminated
They don't need to wear masks at their updates as everyone is practicing physical distancing. No one is suggesting to wear masks all the time, only in places where social distancing is impossible.
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  #152  
Old 05-22-2020, 08:46 AM
cody j cody j is offline
 
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If you want to wear a mask, wear one. If you don’t want to wear a mask, don’t wear one. I don’t put much faith in anything the federal Govt says, they have been more preoccupied with protecting China than Canadian citizens
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  #153  
Old 05-22-2020, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
This will never look like my town. Look beyond the masks and directly at the population density. We are not all the same.
Yup. Plus another reason they regularly wear masks is because of a higher level of airborne pollutants.
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  #154  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:01 AM
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Well.... I'm off to a construction site this morning. I'll wear a bandanna while on site as required by the site safety folks. Then i'll be stopping by the liquor store since it's Friday and I won't be wearing a mask. I promise not to speak moistly or randomly touch things i don't intend to purchase. I will be observing the distancing requirements for mutual safety.

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  #155  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Yes and that is another part of it how this has impacted us all......so follow medical guidelines so we can safely get the economy up and running.....
What I'm saying is that the cure can be worse than the disease.
I have to go to the hospital every month. Since covid its empty. Same thing as the doctors office. I don't want to put personal stuff about people I know on the internet. But I believe that people have died because they could not or would not go to the hospital.
I also don't believe covid is going anywhere anytime soon because its viral and Will probably just keep mutating so even if they come out with a vaccine in the future the virus will just keep coming back in a slightly different form.
We can't do anything much about covid but we do have some control about destroying the worlds economy and going back to the dark ages.
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  #156  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:20 AM
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Angry quoted for convenience

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichaud View Post
- should only be used in addition to other protective steps
- are not proven to protect the person wearing it, but may help protect others
- cover your mouth and nose to prevent respiratory droplets from contaminating other people or surfaces
- must be worn and taken on/off properly as the outside can become contaminated
The juxtaposition of the statements in bold, made by our medical experts, is very enlightening.
It's akin to believing that you can pick up a turd "by the clean end".
Here are suitable masks for those people.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg corona virus mask hers.jpg (24.3 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg corona virus mask his.jpg (28.0 KB, 8 views)
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  #157  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:20 AM
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I have been dreaming of the day when I can walk in to a bank wearing a mask and get out with some cash.
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  #158  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:27 AM
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Now that more reliable numbers are available and it is fairly clear that Covid-19 has a mortality rate similar to normal colds/flus that we have faced for forever. I'll stick to my normal practice, good hygiene and stay home if I am sick.

Obviously supports for the vulnerable, because they are basically stuck until there is a vaccine (if they actually get one any time soon) or enough of us who are not vulnerable get sick( ranging from nasty to what I was sick?) and we have herd immunity.

Old folk's homes will obviously need an overhaul in procedures.

I don't know how we hold the AHS accountable for being so totally unprepared (EG no strategic reserve of PPE), it's not like this is a surprise, a pandemic was always a "when it happens" not "if it happens".

Ironically we had been having the argument with my folks to get them into a home, now I am thinking we adjust their house to make it safer for them so they can stay out of those old folk death traps as long as possible.

Testing is the key, and we need both a proper antibody test to get a real reliable infection rate and timely your sick now testing because quarantining the sick does work. My son got tested last Saturday and still has not heard back. My other son who worked in an airport hotel and had symptoms right at the start was never tested and basically told that if he was not licked by an infected person to PFO.


Basically I think you are delusional if you think you are not going to get covid-19 in the next 2-3 years.
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  #159  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by W921 View Post
My understanding is that we still have influenza. It just keeps mutating.
We lost 8500 people to pneumonia in 2018 and I think 1000 of them where just from the common flu or influenza.

What none of you on here are talking about are the mental illness,divorces and suicides or the ones who die of something else because of surgery back logs or they are just to scared to go to the hospital .
Yes , all these things are Serious and are not from the illness but rather our response to the illness. If we wear masks , sanitize, be mindful in shared spaces , prove to our handlers were responsible, then things can reopen and stay open without a significant second wave.
If I need a mask to get a haircut that’s fine. One hair cut a month
If I need a mask to grocery shop that’s fine. Grocery store once every week
Personal preference or law, I’ll wear a mask in certain places. Not much of a crowds person before this and won’t be after this either.
Wearing a mask isn’t all that fun but a very small price to pay to have things reopen and resemble something close to normal.
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  #160  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:36 AM
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Default Masks and other info.

Good morning,

My job since roughly February 15 or so changed from my regular duties to leading the COVID-19 response to the COVID-19 crisis. It's takes up about 90% of my daily activities right now, and as such I spend a lot of time reading all of the recommendations from the CMOH, CDC, Canadian and Alberta departments of Health, the WHO, experts, suppliers, vendors, contractors and consultants.

My favorite interpreter is a micro-biologist who works for a Health and Safety consulting company we use. They posted a very good video on their website about masks and what proper use looks like...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQMTWjTSeIM

An important message is that improper use can actually present more of a risk than no mask at all.

Also - for those of us who work in occupations where Health and Safety is a top priority - one should remember that gloves and masks are PPE - which based on the hierarchy of controls, is the least desirable and least effective method of controlling hazards.

https://ehs.cornell.edu/campus-healt...archy-controls

Just some food for thought.

One of the most important tidbits I can share, was that on Tuesday morning, I asked Alex (from the video above) flat out if she wears masks and gloves while out in public or at the grocery store - she said - no. Unless she was to get sick - there's very little point. Keeping distant from others and employing a rigorous hand washing regiment is more effective than masks.

Just some food for though for you. Do with it what you may.
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  #161  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:53 AM
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Wear your masks folks..even if it kills you to save another's life...don't be selfish now!
This is silly. I'm content to letting people make their own choices on this one, but to buy into that insanity is just that, insane. My wife wears a mask at work, most of her day, has for 23 yrs, so do her colleagues. I've yet to hear of the mask killing anyone in that profession.

Buying into that made me think of this previous post.
Quote:
Not sure where the Canadian education system failed. Is it really the case that people feel anything written in the Internet must be true..that some net police checks accuracy? That people don’t need to think for themselves.
One thing I'd add is that I feel part of this is true but I wouldn't blame the education system. How many million Canadians are out there buying every Facebook meme that lands in their feed? How many of those have no clue that an algorithm knows what they are bias towards and presents and orders these type of posts based on what is relevant to the user, not chronologically? What % of these people went through the education system before the internet even existed? It's a greater number than those using it that went through the system alongside the internet.

Want to wear a mask, cool, wear one. If you don't, that's cool too, don't. I currently don't, if a store said I had to, I would.
I put my shirt on to go onto a gas station in summer after all.
Good luck to everyone going fishing this weekend.
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  #162  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:58 AM
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Looks like ~ 20% of people on here won't be getting haircuts, visiting the doctor, getting physio, going to the gym, or many other services that will 100% require you to wear a mask if you want to step foot inside of their business.

I wonder how condescending & arrogant those people will be when they're told to kick rocks and come back when they have a mask?

I was at Superstore an hour ago wearing a mask (bringing my weekly total time of mask-wearing to a grand total of about 25 gruelling minutes). I would guess 80% + were also wearing them - not for their own safety, but as a courtesy to others' on the very minuscule chance they're infected.

For essentially zero effort and minimal time, why not?

Putting a shopping cart back isn't the law either, but most people just kinda do it anyways because you look like a schmuck when you don't.
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  #163  
Old 05-22-2020, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W921 View Post
What I'm saying is that the cure can be worse than the disease.
I have to go to the hospital every month. Since covid its empty. Same thing as the doctors office. I don't want to put personal stuff about people I know on the internet. But I believe that people have died because they could not or would not go to the hospital.
I also don't believe covid is going anywhere anytime soon because its viral and Will probably just keep mutating so even if they come out with a vaccine in the future the virus will just keep coming back in a slightly different form.
We can't do anything much about covid but we do have some control about destroying the worlds economy and going back to the dark ages.
that's why precautions are implemented so we can get back the economy and I agree that this has impacted all to various degrees...all we got to do is our part...follow directions....maybe they get a vaccine....maybe not....maybe we will develop strong immune systems that wont impact us as much as it initially did....time will tell...but baby steps is critical here or we are back to square one...
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  #164  
Old 05-22-2020, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by muirsy View Post
Looks like ~ 20% of people on here won't be getting haircuts, visiting the doctor, getting physio, going to the gym, or many other services that will 100% require you to wear a mask if you want to step foot inside of their business.

I wonder how condescending & arrogant those people will be when they're told to kick rocks and come back when they have a mask?

I was at Superstore an hour ago wearing a mask (bringing my weekly total time of mask-wearing to a grand total of about 25 gruelling minutes). I would guess 80% + were also wearing them - not for their own safety, but as a courtesy to others' on the very minuscule chance they're infected.

For essentially zero effort and minimal time, why not?

Putting a shopping cart back isn't the law either, but most people just kinda do it anyways because you look like a schmuck when you don't.
I suspect less condescending and arrogant than you are.

Looper
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  #165  
Old 05-22-2020, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Looper View Post
I suspect less condescending and arrogant than you are.

Looper
Yeah, being courteous toward other people at zero cost to myself is pretty awful.
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  #166  
Old 05-22-2020, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by muirsy View Post
Yeah, being courteous toward other people at zero cost to myself is pretty awful.
I wasn't referring to your impeccable mask regime. Just your attitude towards people who dont think like you. No worries, that's the world we live in more than ever. I'm pretty sure I can thrive in it....hope you can too.

Looper
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  #167  
Old 05-22-2020, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Albertadiver View Post
Well.... I'm off to a construction site this morning. I'll wear a bandanna while on site as required by the site safety folks. Then i'll be stopping by the liquor store since it's Friday and I won't be wearing a mask. I promise not to speak moistly or randomly touch things i don't intend to purchase. I will be observing the distancing requirements for mutual safety.

Don't forget the fresh mint for your mojito. Have a great weekend.
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  #168  
Old 05-22-2020, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Bergerboy View Post
My point was both things were implemented by the government without reasonable proof.




I subscribe to the belief that the only way to stop the virus is herd immunity. Those that are at risk should be quarantined and the rest of us should get the virus and become immune. Then its gone before it can mutate and really harm us, like the Spanish Flu did.




Eye of the beholder. Not everyone thinks the pandemic virus protection is "spot on" and the majority of Canadians who voted Liberal think the gun ban is.
Comparing masks to a gun ban is like comparing pepperoni pizza to garden slug mucous.

One is stealing. One is asking folks voluntarily to respect others when social distancing is not possible and to wear a mask to protect others.

There is plenty of evidence that Covid19 can be airborne in breathe.
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  #169  
Old 05-22-2020, 11:25 AM
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I've never had a mojito....

and does one drink with the mask still on or off....?


asking for a friend.


I found out you can't really drink with an N95 mask on..... unless you jam a straw in the exhaust filter...... then your golden.


these are important things to know..... in my world at least.
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  #170  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
Before that they were is full lockdown so a mask law was pointless. China’s used even more extreme measures did not stop a second outbreak either. Keep looking no lack of heavy handed measures falling short once Covid19 is present

I would not put much faith in the mask theory

Vaccine or immunity is going to be the only true end. Good thing Covid19 has been having far less of an impact then predicated and has an extremely high survival rate for majority of the public
Where social distancing measure were put in place early...impacts are far less. The evidence has clearly shown that failure to adjust society to the pandemic has cost far more lives.

Alberta hasn’t needed to be heavy handed and instead has relied more on people’s common sense and desire to help protect each other. Plus most people know friends and family in high risk categories. Drives home why we value life more so than other places in the world.
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  #171  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tri777 View Post
Wear your masks folks..even if it kills you to save another's life...don't be selfish now!
Lol

Speaking of fear mongering.

Wearing a mask applies when social distancing doesn’t work...for instance a crowded grocery store.

Just so you are clear...no one is saying you need to wear it when sleeping.

That being said there are some people who for health reasons can’t wear a mask. Your doctor is a good resource for that.

Also...if you have a mask on and are having trouble breathing, please confirm with the wife that she is helping you put a mask over your face and not a pillow.
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  #172  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
I've seen folks of all ages believe everything they see on the news as well.
Totally. I’ve seen people who I know have good common sense fall for click bait sites.

I have tried to find common trends however age doesn’t seem to be a factor. However I currently don’t know any women who consistently fall for click bait conspiracy sites...just dudes.

Makes me wonder if it is because as guys, there is an instinctual need to protect others and when the problem is outside our control we become susceptible to fake sites that proportion to give us control or find someone to blame for our lack of control.

That being said...with masks...we have the ability to chose to protect others when we can’t social distance.
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  #173  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
Odd doesn’t seem to be working all that great in California and many other places with mask laws

But it’s a great theory
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...k/art-20485449


From Mayo Clinic

COVID-19: How much protection do face masks offer?
Get answers to your questions about face masks, including how to use them properly.

By Mayo Clinic Staff

Can face masks help prevent the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the disease.

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't yet know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

These discoveries led the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to do an about-face on face masks. The CDC updated its guidance to recommend widespread use of simple cloth face coverings to help prevent transmission of COVID-19 by people who have the virus but don't know it.

Some public health groups argue that masks should be reserved for health care providers and point to the critical shortage of surgical masks and N95 masks. The CDC acknowledged this concern when it recommended cloth masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers.

How do the different types of masks work?

Surgical masks

Also called a medical mask, a surgical mask is a loose-fitting disposable mask that protects the wearer's nose and mouth from contact with droplets, splashes and sprays that may contain germs. A surgical mask also filters out large particles in the air. Surgical masks may protect others by reducing exposure to the saliva and respiratory secretions of the mask wearer.

At this time, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has not approved any type of surgical mask specifically for protection against the COVID-19 virus, but these masks may provide some protection when N95 masks are not available.

N95 masks

Actually a type of respirator, an N95 mask offers more protection than a surgical mask does because it can filter out both large and small particles when the wearer inhales. As the name indicates, the mask is designed to block 95% of very small particles. Some N95 masks have valves that make them easier to breathe through. With this type of mask, unfiltered air is released when the wearer exhales.

Health care providers must be trained and pass a fit test to confirm a proper seal before using an N95 respirator in the workplace. Like surgical masks, N95 masks are intended to be disposable. However, researchers are testing ways to disinfect N95 masks so they can be reused.

Cloth masks

While surgical and N95 masks are in short supply and must be reserved for health care providers, cloth masks are easy to find and can be washed and reused.

Asking everyone to wear cloth masks can help reduce the spread of COVID-19 by people who have the disease but don't realize it. And countries that required face masks, testing, isolation and social distancing early in the pandemic seem to have had some success slowing the disease's spread.

Cloth masks are cheap and simple to make. Instructions are easy to find online. Masks can be made from common materials, such as sheets made of tightly woven cotton. The CDC website even includes directions for no-sew masks made from bandannas and T-shirts. Cloth masks should include multiple layers of fabric.

How to wear a cloth face mask

Cloth face masks should be worn in public settings where social distancing measures are difficult to maintain, such as in grocery stores, especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.

Here are a few pointers for putting on and taking off a cloth mask:

Place your mask over your mouth and nose.
Tie it behind your head or use ear loops and make sure it's snug.
Don't touch your mask while wearing it.
If you accidentally touch your mask, wash or sanitize your hands.
Remove the mask by untying it or lifting off the ear loops without touching the front of the mask or your face.
Wash your hands immediately after removing your mask.
Regularly wash your mask with soap and water in the washing machine. It's fine to launder it with other clothes.
Finally, here are a few face mask precautions:

Don't put masks on anyone who has trouble breathing, or is unconscious or otherwise unable to remove the mask without help.
Don't put masks on children under 2 years of age.
Don't use face masks as a substitute for social distancing.

Canada website

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...coverings.html

How to protect others
The best thing you can do to prevent spreading COVID-19 is to wash your hands frequently with warm water and soap for at least 20 seconds. If none is available, use hand sanitizer with a minimum of 60% alcohol base.

To protect others, you should also:

stay at home if you are ill
maintain a 2-metre physical distance from others
when physical distancing cannot be maintained, consider wearing a non-medical mask or homemade face covering
avoid touching your face, mouth, nose or eyes
Wearing a homemade non-medical mask/facial covering in the community is recommended for periods of time when it is not possible to consistently maintain a 2-metre physical distance from others, particularly in crowded public settings, such as:

stores
shopping areas
public transportation
Public health officials will make recommendations based on a number of factors, including the rates of infection and/or transmission in the community. Recommendations may vary from location to location.

Wearing a mask alone will not prevent the spread of COVID-19. You must consistently and strictly adhere to good hygiene and public health measures, including frequent hand washing and physical (social) distancing.

Appropriate use of non-medical mask or face covering
When worn properly, a person wearing a non-medical mask or face covering can reduce the spread of his or her own infectious respiratory droplets.

Non-medical face masks or face coverings should:

allow for easy breathing
fit securely to the head with ties or ear loops
maintain their shape after washing and drying
be changed as soon as possible if damp or dirty
be comfortable and not require frequent adjustment
be made of at least 2 layers of tightly woven material fabric (such as cotton or linen)
be large enough to completely and comfortably cover the nose and mouth without gaping
Some masks also include a pocket to accommodate a paper towel or disposable coffee filter, for increased benefit.

Non-medical masks or face coverings should not:

be shared with others
impair vision or interfere with tasks
be placed on children under the age of 2 years
be made of plastic or other non-breathable materials
be secured with tape or other inappropriate materials
be made exclusively of materials that easily fall apart, such as tissues
be placed on anyone unable to remove them without assistance or anyone who has trouble breathing
Limitations
Homemade masks are not medical devices and are not regulated like medical masks and respirators. Their use poses a number of limitations:

they have not been tested to recognized standards
the fabrics are not the same as used in surgical masks or respirators
the edges are not designed to form a seal around the nose and mouth
they may not provide complete protection against virus-sized particles
they can be difficult to breathe through and can prevent you from getting the required amount of oxygen needed by your body
These types of masks may not be effective in blocking virus particles that may be transmitted by coughing, sneezing or certain medical procedures. They do not provide complete protection from virus particles because of a potential loose fit and the materials used.

Medical masks, including surgical, medical procedure face masks and respirators (like N95 masks), must be kept for health care workers and others providing direct care to COVID-19 patients.
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  #174  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:29 PM
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MountainTi MountainTi is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Totally. I’ve seen people who I know have good common sense fall for click bait sites.

I have tried to find common trends however age doesn’t seem to be a factor. However I currently don’t know any women who consistently fall for click bait conspiracy sites...just dudes.

Makes me wonder if it is because as guys, there is an instinctual need to protect others and when the problem is outside our control we become susceptible to fake sites that proportion to give us control or find someone to blame for our lack of control.

That being said...with masks...we have the ability to chose to protect others when we can’t social distance.

What I've noticed is more elderly people taking the (tv) news as gospel. Basing their opinions (we'll use Trump and all the bashing he gets as an example) because of what they watch daily on the MSM.
With that being said, they grew up in an era where the news was actually the news and unbiased.
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  #175  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:30 PM
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Mask summary article

https://theconversation.com/masks-he...wearing-138507

I’m a data scientist at the University of San Francisco and teach courses online in machine learning for fast.ai. In late March, I decided to use public mask-wearing as a case study to show my students how to combine and analyze diverse types of data and evidence.

Much to my surprise, I discovered that the evidence for wearing masks in public was very strong. It appeared that universal mask-wearing could be one of the most important tools in tackling the spread of COVID-19. Yet the people around me weren’t wearing masks and health organizations in the U.S. weren’t recommending their use.

I, along with 18 other experts from a variety of disciplines, conducted a review of the research on public mask-wearing as a tool to slow the spread SARS-CoV-2. We published a preprint of our paper on April 12 and it is now awaiting peer review at the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Since then, there have been many more reviews that support mask-wearing.

On May 14, I and 100 of the world’s top academics released an open letter to all U.S. governors asking that “officials require cloth masks to be worn in all public places, such as stores, transportation systems, and public buildings.”

Currently, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that everyone wears a mask – as do the governments covering 90% of the world’s population – but, so far, only 12 states in the U.S. require it. In the majority of the remaining states, the CDC recommendation has not been enough: Most people do not currently wear masks. However, things are changing fast. Every week more and more jurisdictions require mask use in public. As I write this, there are now 94 countries that have made this move.

So what is this evidence that has led myself and so many scientists to believe so strongly in masks?


Droplets ejected from people’s mouths during coughing or talking are likely the most significant source of SARS-CoV-2 transmission. Thomas Jackson/Stone via Getty Images
The evidence

The research that first convinced me was a laser light-scattering experiment. Researchers from the National Institutes of Health used lasers to illuminate and count how many droplets of saliva were flung into the air by a person talking with and without a face mask. The paper was only recently published officially, but I saw a YouTube video showing the experiment in early March. The results are shockingly obvious in the video. When the researcher used a simple cloth face cover, nearly all the droplets were blocked.

This evidence is only relevant if COVID-19 is transmitted by droplets from a person’s mouth. It is. There are many documented super-spreading cases connected with activities – like singing in enclosed spaces – that create a lot of droplets.

The light-scattering experiment cannot see “micro-droplets” that are smaller than 5 microns and could contain some viral particles. But experts don’t think that these are responsible for much COVID-19 transmission.

While just how much of a role these small particles play in transmission remains to be seen, recent research suggests that cloth masks are also effective at reducing the spread of these smaller particles. In a paper that has not yet been peer-reviewed, researchers found that micro-droplets fell out of the air within 1.5 meters of the person who was wearing a mask, versus 5 meters for those not wearing masks. When combined with social distancing, this suggests that masks can effectively reduce transmission via micro-droplets.

Another recent study showed that unfitted surgical masks were 100% effective in blocking seasonal coronavirus in droplets ejected during breathing.

If only people with symptoms infected others, then only people with symptoms would need to wear masks. But experts have shown that people without symptoms pose a risk of infecting others. In fact, four recent studies show that nearly half of patients are infected by people who do not themselves have symptoms.

This evidence seems, to me, clear and simple: COVID-19 is spread by droplets. We can see directly that a piece of cloth blocks those droplets and the virus those droplets contain. People without symptoms who don’t even know they are sick are responsible for around half of the transmission of the virus.

We should all wear masks.


Asking the wrong questions led to a misunderstanding of the medical literature around masks. AP Photo/Eric Gay
Against the tide

After going through all of this strong evidence in late March and early April, I wondered why mask-wearing was controversial amongst health organizations in the Western world. The U.S. and European CDCs did not recommend masks, and neither did nearly any western government except for Slovakia and Czechia, which both required masks in late March.

I think there were three key problems.

The first was that most researchers were looking at the wrong question – how well a mask protects the wearer from infection and not how well a mask prevents an infected person from spreading the virus. Masks function very differently as personal protective equipment (PPE) versus source control.

Masks are very good at blocking larger droplets and not nearly as good at blocking tiny particles. When a person expels droplets into the air, they quickly evaporate and shrink to become tiny airborne particles called droplet nuclei. These are extremely hard to remove from the air. However, in the moist atmosphere between a person’s mouth and their mask, it takes nearly a hundred times as long for a droplet to evaporate and shrink into a droplet nuclei.

This means that nearly any kind of simple cloth mask is great for source control. The mask creates humidity, this humidity prevents virus-containing droplets from turning into droplet nuclei, and this allows the fabric of the mask to block the droplets.

Unfortunately, nearly all of the research that was available at the start of this pandemic focused on mask efficacy as PPE. This measure is very important for protecting health care workers, but does not capture their value as source control. On Feb. 29, the U.S. surgeon general tweeted that masks “are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus.” This missed the key point: They are extremely effective at preventing its spread, as our review of the literature showed.

The second problem was that most medical researchers are used to judging interventions on the basis of randomized controlled trials. These are the foundation of evidence based medicine. However, it is impossible and unethical to test mask-wearing, hand-washing or social distancing during a pandemic.

Experts like Trisha Greenhalgh, the author of the best-selling textbook “How to Read a Paper: The Basics of Evidence Based Healthcare,” are now asking, “Is Covid-19 evidence-based medicine’s nemesis?” She and others are suggesting that when a simple experiment finds evidence to support an intervention and that intervention has a limited downside, policymakers should act before a randomized trial is done.

The third problem is that there is a shortage of medical masks around the world. Many policymakers were concerned that recommending face coverings for the public would lead to people hoarding medical masks. This led to seemingly contradictory guidance where the CDC said there was no reason for the public to wear masks but that masks needed to be saved for medical workers. The CDC has now clarified its stance and recommends the public use of homemade masks while saving higher-grade masks for medical professionals.


Many countries were quick to adopt public mask-wearing while others, including the U.S., still haven’t enacted nationwide rules. AP Photo/Andy Wong
Results of mask-wearing

There are numerous studies that suggest if 80% of people wear a mask in public, then COVID-19 transmission could be halted. Until a vaccine or a cure for COVID-19 is discovered, cloth face masks might be the most important tool we currently have to fight the pandemic.

Given all of the laboratory and epidemiological evidence, the low cost of wearing masks – which can be made at home with no tools – and the potential to slow COVID-19 transmission with widescale use, policymakers should ensure that everyone wears a mask in public.
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  #176  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:33 PM
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Alberta recommendations

https://www.alberta.ca/prevent-the-spread.aspx#p25621s4. Go to the link for video on proper use of cloth masks.

Non-medical masks
Wearing a non-medical mask, such as a homemade cloth mask, has not been proven to protect the person wearing it. However, it may be helpful in protecting others around you.
Face coverings are another way to prevent respiratory droplets from contaminating other people or surfaces.
They should only be used in addition to other prevention steps.
If you choose to use a non-medical face mask:
you should follow the guidance for wearing non-medical face masks (PDF, 357 KB)
you must wash your hands immediately before putting it on, before taking it off, and immediately after taking it off
it should fit well (non-gaping)
do not share it with others
Face masks can become contaminated on the outside, or when touched by your hands. When wearing a mask:
avoid touching your face mask while using it
continue practicing good hand hygiene
change a cloth mask as soon as it gets damp or soiled
put it directly into the washing machine or a bag that can be emptied into the washing machine and then disposed of
cloth masks can be laundered with other items using a hot cycle, and then dried thoroughly
masks that cannot be washed should be discarded and replaced as soon as they get damp, soiled or crumpled
dispose of masks properly in a lined garbage bin
don't leave discarded masks in shopping carts, on the ground, etc.
Videos: Proper use of non-medical masks and how to choose one
Dr. Deena Hinshaw, Chief Medical Officer of Health, explains in these videos:
Choosing the right non-medical mask for wearing in public
How to use a non-medical mask
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  #177  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:34 PM
midgetwaiter midgetwaiter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muirsy View Post
I was at Superstore an hour ago wearing a mask (bringing my weekly total time of mask-wearing to a grand total of about 25 gruelling minutes). I would guess 80% + were also wearing them - not for their own safety, but as a courtesy to others' on the very minuscule chance they're infected.

For essentially zero effort and minimal time, why not?
As I have pointed out on other COVID related threads one side of this debate says WE a lot and the other side says ME a lot.

I wear a mask when I’m out in public because it’s a courtesy to others. I’ve got no way of knowing I’m not a asymptomatic carrier and so I will assume I am and adjust my behaviour accordingly. This costs me basically nothing.

If you can’t get on board with that line of reasoning have a look in the mirror.
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  #178  
Old 05-22-2020, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck View Post
Don't forget the fresh mint for your mojito. Have a great weekend.
7 Bucks off on Flor De Cana today!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/co...r-breathe.html
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  #179  
Old 05-22-2020, 01:18 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
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For me it's more of a "meh". The only stores that I typically "shop" at are the gas station, and occasionally the liquor store. If any store looks to be busy I keep on driving.
Groceries and most other items are ordered online, and either picked up outside the store, or dropped off at my home.

My wife works in healthcare and needs to wear one all day every day, so she can't wait to get her mask off at the end of the day. As far as mask use, when I was transiting through Japan and Singapore in early February, the only people using masks correctly were the health authorities, and the airline employees. Most people had them pulled over their noses, on top of their heads, scratching and pulling at the sides, wore under their chin while in the smoking areas etc. I see much of the same going on here. And I'm not really sure why I see people wearing masks in their vehicles, unless it is to get home and wash their hands before removing them.

Thankfully in Edmonton we've had next to no cases per-capita, and no major outbreaks. This coupled with the fact that I don't live in an apartment/condo complex, work around others, or spend any time in crowded areas has made me less likely to wear a mask. I have however been diligent at cleaning all touch surfaces and doorknobs in any building that I work in, as well as thoroughly wash my hands on a regular basis, and do my best to avoid touching my face. I do have an N-100 respirator in my work vehicle for Hanta Virus and some N-100 masks, but only use them for that purpose.

Now if I need to enter a care home, clinic/hospital, or somebody's home who has a compromised immune system, I will wear a mask.
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  #180  
Old 05-22-2020, 01:22 PM
BigJon BigJon is offline
 
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I think we may be approaching Peak Virtue.

Pretty amazing how we "flattened the curve" without widespread mask use...but now, mask up....with a non medical mask no less....It has no rating to prevent the cooties from getting in but it will prevent the cooties from getting out. If you don't, your selfish and from what I gather here, a person of a lower socio-economic class.

Also enjoy the treatise on the dangers of internet click-bait and fake news, supported with links to internet news sites. Will Part II be an exposé on how to differentiate "truth news" from "fake news?"
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