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08-04-2020, 04:42 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Error due to slow site. 
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
Last edited by Grizzly Adams; 08-04-2020 at 05:10 PM.
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08-04-2020, 04:44 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
That seems to be what is being most reported. Storage of explosives confiscated from a ship in the Mediterranean.
Some have surmised fireworks, some U.S. intelligence saying explosives bound for one of the many Middle East hotspots.
Either way it was a huge amount.
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Explosives and harbors are not a good mix . Fireworks sounds like some Liberal grasping at straws  Been a few bad accidents including Halifax . This one is unique, because it released poison gasses as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_on_Bari
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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08-04-2020, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,327
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And Lebanon
Is know for her wonderful fireworks displays..........More like Iran +Syria;s proxy harbouring many terrorist groups.I'm certain it was an accident.Scuba gear and a mini-sub and you've got mail.
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08-04-2020, 06:35 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer2
Is know for her wonderful fireworks displays..........More like Iran +Syria;s proxy harbouring many terrorist groups.I'm certain it was an accident.Scuba gear and a mini-sub and you've got mail.
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What in the holy Jesus are you saying?
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08-04-2020, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 15,041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENINC
What in the holy Jesus are you saying?
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I figured out what he was trying to say and trust me, your life will not be better for understanding what he was driving at. Some people just can't help being a jerk (least offensive term I could think of) even in the face of harm to thousands of innocent people.
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08-04-2020, 07:33 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nelson BC
Posts: 2,032
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Got to feel for the Palestinians. Their yoke is tight and load heavy.
Sad day for such a troubled community. I hope that the region and others will find the resources and goodness to help.
On another note, why do the same core group feel the need to idly speculate on the cause of such things and make haste and sometimes hateful conclusions without even a shred of evidence or direct knowledge.
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08-04-2020, 07:40 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonob1
Got to feel for the Palestinians. Their yoke is tight and load heavy.
Sad day for such a troubled community. I hope that the region and others will find the resources and goodness to help.
On another note, why do the same core group feel the need to idly speculate on the cause of such things and make haste and sometimes hateful conclusions without even a shred of evidence or direct knowledge.
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Lebanon used to be a beautiful, prosperous country, a popular European holiday destination , Hong Kong of the Middle East, before the sectarian violence and picking the wrong side in the Arab, Israeli conflict. That was one Hell of an explosion, not likely your local firecracker factory gone wrong, almost 80 dead, last time I checked. We're free to speculate or is that not allowed these days either?? The Palestinians are their own worst enemy.
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
Last edited by Grizzly Adams; 08-04-2020 at 08:00 PM.
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08-04-2020, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: On the border in Lloydminster
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President Michel Aoun*said it was "unacceptable" that 2,750 tonnes of ammonium nitrate was stored in a warehouse for six years without safety measures and vowed that those responsible would face the "harshest punishments." He called for an emergency cabinet meeting on Wednesday and said a two-week state of emergency should be declared.
a tragedy could have been avoided Aoun vows those will held accountable
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08-04-2020, 08:47 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2017
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Trump believes it was an attack, calling it a bomb.
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I get all the news I need in the weather report
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08-04-2020, 09:23 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyAlberta
Trump believes it was an attack, calling it a bomb.
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But he says all kinds of stupid things. US officials indicated there was no evidence of an attack, and are taking it at face value: the explosion was caused by a welder on-site where 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate was stored without adequate safeguards.
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'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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08-05-2020, 07:05 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
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2750 tons of ammonium nitrate was stored without adequate safeguards.
NH4NO3 is one of those two faced compounds, spread it on your field and it's a fertilizer, not really much used these days, mix it with a few other things and it's a potent and popular high explosive, question being what was it in an unstable and conflicted part of the planet ?
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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08-05-2020, 08:00 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,741
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08-05-2020, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,220
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__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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08-05-2020, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: calgary
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Here's a photo of Halifax explosion.Of munitions in Halifax.1917 2.90 Kilo tons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion
With today's new chemicals,just a comparison...Bierut's explosion is devastating
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08-05-2020, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Bentley
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Someone's getting written up
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08-05-2020, 10:09 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
But he says all kinds of stupid things. US officials indicated there was no evidence of an attack, and are taking it at face value: the explosion was caused by a welder on-site where 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate was stored without adequate safeguards.
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To put this into perspective, Tim Mcveigh took out 1/3rd of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City and killed 168 and injuring 680 with 2 tons of ammonium nitrate.
The casualties and injuries tallied everyday for the next while will be immense.
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An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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08-05-2020, 10:45 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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I'm seeing yield estimate on the explosion in the 3+ kiloton range, maybe as high as 4. Roughly about a fifth of the explosive yield of the bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki. Just to put it in perspective.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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08-05-2020, 10:52 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy The Kid
Someone's getting written up
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welder and no spark watch.....I don't think they are around for the sit down....
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent... 
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08-05-2020, 10:54 AM
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Location: Calgary
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Isn’t it ammonium nitrate mixed with diesel that is used for mine blasting? Or at least once was? I would imagine for bulk users like mines, the low cost of those two simple & very common components would offset any performance disadvantages compared to more specialized explosives.
The footage of the fire and small explosions that preceded the big boom makes me think that the initial spark was something different than the ammonium nitrate, perhaps some clown really did store fireworks next to the fertilizer? Or it could have been something like bottled flammable gases.... Those smaller explosions had to be something individually packaged, rather than a bulk substance.
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"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me
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08-05-2020, 10:57 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8,300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy The Kid
Someone's getting written up
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and sent for a pizz test!
BW
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08-05-2020, 11:06 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Lloydminster Alberta
Posts: 1,298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser
Isn’t it ammonium nitrate mixed with diesel that is used for mine blasting? Or at least once was? I would imagine for bulk users like mines, the low cost of those two simple & very common components would offset any performance disadvantages compared to more specialized explosives.
The footage of the fire and small explosions that preceded the big boom makes me think that the initial spark was something different than the ammonium nitrate, perhaps some clown really did store fireworks next to the fertilizer? Or it could have been something like bottled flammable gases.... Those smaller explosions had to be something individually packaged, rather than a bulk substance.
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Yes the name of it is ANFO
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08-05-2020, 11:46 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 3,116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser
Isn’t it ammonium nitrate mixed with diesel that is used for mine blasting? Or at least once was? I would imagine for bulk users like mines, the low cost of those two simple & very common components would offset any performance disadvantages compared to more specialized explosives.
The footage of the fire and small explosions that preceded the big boom makes me think that the initial spark was something different than the ammonium nitrate, perhaps some clown really did store fireworks next to the fertilizer? Or it could have been something like bottled flammable gases.... Those smaller explosions had to be something individually packaged, rather than a bulk substance.
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Its called ANFO Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil. The thing is ammonium nitrate is relatively stable on its own, it is an oxidizer and must be mixed to get the explosive results like the video shows. So what did it mix with? If it was fireworks you can see before the initial explosion I still don't know if they would be enough to set off the blast.
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" Everything in life that I enjoy is either illegal, immoral, fattening or causes cancer!"
"The problem was this little thing called the government and laws."
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08-05-2020, 12:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostguy6
Its called ANFO Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil. The thing is ammonium nitrate is relatively stable on its own, it is an oxidizer and must be mixed to get the explosive results like the video shows. So what did it mix with? If it was fireworks you can see before the initial explosion I still don't know if they would be enough to set off the blast.
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The event itself is tragic for the entire region. The science behind it is rather cool though. Although stable as the intended product, it’s decomposition can lead to the reaction transitioning into an explosion. That big white cloud was moisture precipitating out from the air as the reactions shockwave went by. The brown cloud was surely a slow flame front working into the material. The gray cloud would be whatever started the whole thing, appearing to be fireworks
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defl...ion_transition
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I get all the news I need in the weather report
Last edited by MyAlberta; 08-05-2020 at 01:13 PM.
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08-05-2020, 01:26 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Found a bag of Ammonium Nitrate discarded by seismic crew on cutline on my trapline. I quickly changed that line area to a non active one as did not like my sled banging into it by accident. Idiots that discarded it.
The Lebanon material would have needed diesel already mixed into to set off such a large explosion even if initiated by a fireworks initial fire.
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08-05-2020, 02:08 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
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Third rate safety standards in a third rate country. Unfortunately alot of those type of country’s poor safety standards make their way here when they move to Canada. It’s a mindset or a culture they have grown up with. I work in a truck shop and the things we see....
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An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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08-05-2020, 02:36 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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Bada-Boom!
Based on further information, this may have been bigger than a grain dust explosion. 
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“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” - Thomas Sowell
“We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.”- Thomas Sowell
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08-05-2020, 03:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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For starters
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonob1
Got to feel for the Palestinians. Their yoke is tight and load heavy.
Sad day for such a troubled community. I hope that the region and others will find the resources and goodness to help.
On another note, why do the same core group feel the need to idly speculate on the cause of such things and make haste and sometimes hateful conclusions without even a shred of evidence or direct knowledge.
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They aren't Palestinians,this happened in a predominately Christian area.I have a Lebanese friend two doors down that has family there and he is relatively certain it was the Israelis.Lebanon is complicated politically ....Syria is in control and wants to keep it that way while bowing to Iran allowing Hezbollah free reign.If it was Israel they may have underestimated the collateral damage.Don't jump to conclusions if you think this is black and white.The PLO started the civil war there in the 80's and destroyed what was known as Little Paris/Beruit murdering every Christian they could lay hands on.
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08-05-2020, 03:57 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,327
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to save some writing
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08-05-2020, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,418
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With news reports about the seized cargo and the crew of the ship it was on dating back years, its well-established where the ammonium nitrate was from, though why it was still there does point to a certain level of incompetence. It should have been sold and shipped to the purchaser as the amount of space it would take up is ludicrous, never mind the obvious hazard it presented.
I'll go with Occam's razor on this and bet it was a few subsequent acts of everyday incompetence resulting in disastrous consequences, rather than an elaborate foreign plot.
What an awful thing for the people there....
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"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me
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