Wild sheep

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

Yes killing a 130" lamb tip full curl is impressive.. Know of a guy out Med Hat way who has 7 130" bighorns on his wall. WHATS THE POINT!?

130 inches eh Do you even know how to score a sheep or do they all have 10" bases

[WinefredCommander]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

130 inches eh Do you even know how to score a sheep or do they all have 10" bases

Ask the guy who killed em. They're sure dinks next to a 150" ram let alone a booner.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Post some pics of your big ones!

[RZR]

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

Yes killing a 130" lamb tip full curl is impressive.. Know of a guy out Med Hat way who has 7 130" bighorns on his wall. WHATS THE POINT!?

What's the fellas first name I may know him

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by RZR

What's the fellas first name I may know him

Bob Loblaw

[fast_pass88]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Maybe he likes hunting sheep....?

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

Yes killing a 130" lamb tip full curl is impressive.. Know of a guy out Med Hat way who has 7 130" bighorns on his wall. WHATS THE POINT!?

+1
How would you react if I told you "I know a guy who shoots a 120 inch wt buck every year, I mean what's the point?"

Maybe he's not in it for the horns, maybe he's in it for the experience? Who are we to judge others hunting ethics? If it's legal it's legal. Sure, as a sheep hunter I encourage everyone including myself to hold out for a ram that's not a squeaker and/or has some age on him. I hold those same types of personal convictions when hunting deer as well. But to mandate that of everyone or belittle them for not sharing my same opinions does no one any good.

[fast_pass88]

Originally Posted by mountainmonkey

Wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on our wild sheep populations.
Do we do enough as Albertans to be advocates to our sheep?
Organizations like wsf help?

New to the board but it’s been on my mind for awhile

Thanks

Sorry your thread got off topic, as most sheep threads sooner or later end up in the horn debate on here!

I think one common idea you can get from here is that there is much room for improvement on habitat (burns, deforestation, ect) as well as predator management.

Regarding the WSF, if you hunt sheep in Alberta you should be a member, end of story. A bold statement for sure, but I strongly believe that sheep are a very important resource and need to be handled with that regard. We're very lucky to have the opportunity to hunt them over the counter and I think it's our job to give back a bit to help keep them around for the future generations.

The WSF is a great group that's been instrumental in many research projects, prescribed burns, predator management, ect.

To me, being a member isn't just giving them $30 so I can get a couple magazines in the mail and a sticker for my truck. It's about helping make the organization better, and and how I can help the conservation of sheep here in Alberta. Like any organization sure there's things they/we could do better but that's why people need to become members, roll up your sleeves and help out. Give some fresh new ideas and perspectives, donate your time when the opportunities are there, and money if you can spare some. As mentioned earlier their banquet in March is great and their AGM is open to all people. Not just members so if your not a memebr sit in on the meeting and you can learn alot about the WSF.

If you want to contribute to the sustainability of sheep and sheep hunting it's the best vehicle for that in the province.

[416 Ultramag]

I would really like to see more mature rams been taken. I see a lot of legal but young rams taken. It would be nice to see the average age go to 9.5. I don't know what the answer would be that would please everyone. Right now though our average age is pretty young. 7.3 years old. Would it be better if some one shot a ram that was 10.5 years old and was just under 4/5 curl due to being broomed or a 6.5 year ram at 4/5?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by 416 Ultramag

I would really like to see more mature rams been taken. I see a lot of legal but young rams taken. It would be nice to see the average age go to 9.5. I don't know what the answer would be that would please everyone. Right now though our average age is pretty young. 7.3 years old. Would it be better if some one shot a ram that was 10.5 years old and was just under 4/5 curl due to being broomed or a 6.5 year ram at 4/5?

Perception is a funny thing. In Wyoming where they actively manage their sheep populations they want every ram shot after 6 years of age. I learned this from John Porter and when I challenged him on it he quoted chapter and verse on studies that showed rams over 6 are more of a drain on the habitat than anything else. Their breeding years are largely behind them after 6 years of age. I was surprised to say the least but they have done studies which seems to be so much more than is done else where.

[dshaw]

Originally Posted by 416 Ultramag

I would really like to see more mature rams been taken. I see a lot of legal but young rams taken. It would be nice to see the average age go to 9.5. I don't know what the answer would be that would please everyone. Right now though our average age is pretty young. 7.3 years old. Would it be better if some one shot a ram that was 10.5 years old and was just under 4/5 curl due to being broomed or a 6.5 year ram at 4/5?

Getting the age higher is tough on a general tag. Lots of first time sheep hunters that will shoot any legal ram which is just fine. Maybe each zone could have a draw tag for a double Broomed 9 plus year ram. 1 or 2 could be killed from zones with a good population of them while the rest of the zone stays general. I have also saw the idea of the age of ram you kill depends how long you wait for your next tag. So killing a younger ram would mean you wait 5 years or whatever the number is. I’m not sure the answer. Right now I think our system works well except for the big old double broomed rams.

[astepanuk]

When we Hunted 438 in November we seen a few Rams that were probably 4 year olds near legal the tightest curls ever.

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by astepanuk

When we Hunted 438 in November we seen a few Rams that were probably 4 year olds near legal the tightest curls ever.

They year I was there in 2010 there were 3 rams that were 4 years olds that were taken. One was a 160" full curl ram over the bridge of his nose. Tight curl but pretty crazy horn growth at 4 years old.

[WinefredCommander]

Originally Posted by fast_pass88

+1
How would you react if I told you "I know a guy who shoots a 120 inch wt buck every year, I mean what's the point?"

Maybe he's not in it for the horns, maybe he's in it for the experience? Who are we to judge others hunting ethics? If it's legal it's legal. Sure, as a sheep hunter I encourage everyone including myself to hold out for a ram that's not a squeaker and/or has some age on him. I hold those same types of personal convictions when hunting deer as well. But to mandate that of everyone or belittle them for not sharing my same opinions does no one any good.

Once you have 7 of them on the wall. Its nothing about experience... Its about "I've killed 7 rams". I would think MOST sheep hunters are far past dumping a 150" whitetail at this point. We've "graduated" from deer. You're in it for the challenge, you're in it for the trophy, you're in it for harvesting the "King of the Mountain". We as sheep hunters need to do a far better job than killing young rams. The old adage for whitetail hunters, "You're never going to kill a booner if you keep killing 150s". A hunter with 200 150" whitetails on the wall has nothing over a hunter with 1 Booner except for the fact that he's killed ALOT of potential...

[RZR]

Winefredcomander what is the first name of the guy with 7 130" rams

[Scouter]

Not aloud to mention his name

[RZR]

Originally Posted by Scouter

Not aloud to mention his name

What’s wrong with a first name like Dale, or Grant, etc. The way I call it B.S.

[fast_pass88]

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

Once you have 7 of them on the wall. Its nothing about experience... Its about "I've killed 7 rams". I would think MOST sheep hunters are far past dumping a 150" whitetail at this point. We've "graduated" from deer. You're in it for the challenge, you're in it for the trophy, you're in it for harvesting the "King of the Mountain". We as sheep hunters need to do a far better job than killing young rams. The old adage for whitetail hunters, "You're never going to kill a booner if you keep killing 150s". A hunter with 200 150" whitetails on the wall has nothing over a hunter with 1 Booner except for the fact that he's killed ALOT of potential...

The common theme in what you have said is competition. You mention "A hunter with 200 150" whitetails on the wall has nothing over a hunter with 1 Booner" and "shooting 7 130 inch rams, what's the point"

From my perspective it's not about having "something over another hunter" whether that's shooting a booner wt or an old sheep. I simply don't see the value in it.

Im not saying that the average age of harvested sheep shouldnt be higher, but rather let's approach the management objectives from a science based viewpoint. If your rallying for age restrictions or some other changes you may be better off basing it off things like herd health and age class, carrying capacticy, ect. Instead of personal convictions like how many just-legal rams an individual has on his wall.

[RZR]

All this talk about age and genetics holds true for people as well. Because there is alot more stupid out there nowadays and common sense well that’s gone out the window as well!!

[bdub]

Originally Posted by RZR

All this talk about age and genetics holds true for people as well. Because there is alot more stupid out there nowadays and common sense well that’s gone out the window as well!!

Are you saying human ??? is related to being stupid or not stupid as well as gentics? I think you may be onto something.

[Acesneights]

Originally Posted by 416 Ultramag

I would really like to see more mature rams been taken. I see a lot of legal but young rams taken. It would be nice to see the average age go to 9.5. I don't know what the answer would be that would please everyone. Right now though our average age is pretty young. 7.3 years old. Would it be better if some one shot a ram that was 10.5 years old and was just under 4/5 curl due to being broomed or a 6.5 year ram at 4/5?

2015 - 7.68
2016 - 8.04
2017 - 7.91
2018 - 7.85

Those are the average age of harvested rams in Alberta. Not sure where you got your numbers. If you look at 2015 and 18 there was a few more native harvests of younger rams which drops the average. If you change those native harvest rams to 6-7 you end up pretty much 8 all across the board. I strongly feel there is nothing wrong with the way it is now and nothing wrong when you have good breeding stock with all the parks we now have and a average harvest age of 8.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

2015 - 7.68
2016 - 8.04
2017 - 7.91
2018 - 7.85

Those are the average age of harvested rams in Alberta. Not sure where you got your numbers. If you look at 2015 and 18 there was a few more native harvests of younger rams which drops the average. If you change those native harvest rams to 6-7 you end up pretty much 8 all across the board. I strongly feel there is nothing wrong with the way it is now and nothing wrong when you have good breeding stock with all the parks we now have and a average harvest age of 8.

I agree with you!

[LJalberta]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

2015 - 7.68
2016 - 8.04
2017 - 7.91
2018 - 7.85

Those are the average age of harvested rams in Alberta. Not sure where you got your numbers. If you look at 2015 and 18 there was a few more native harvests of younger rams which drops the average. If you change those native harvest rams to 6-7 you end up pretty much 8 all across the board. I strongly feel there is nothing wrong with the way it is now and nothing wrong when you have good breeding stock with all the parks we now have and a average harvest age of 8.

Thumbs up.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

2015 - 7.68
2016 - 8.04
2017 - 7.91
2018 - 7.85

Those are the average age of harvested rams in Alberta. Not sure where you got your numbers. If you look at 2015 and 18 there was a few more native harvests of younger rams which drops the average. If you change those native harvest rams to 6-7 you end up pretty much 8 all across the board. I strongly feel there is nothing wrong with the way it is now and nothing wrong when you have good breeding stock with all the parks we now have and a average harvest age of 8.

On the other side of the same coin if we eliminate the older rams from the harvest stats, say ten years plus, we come up around 7.5(2017-2018 #'s). A good portion of those older rams stumble out from parks, Cadomin, etc. Rams living entirely out of the parks have a tough time making it past legal and get killed young on average. Our breeding stock is largely young rams 6.5 years or younger.

[fast_pass88]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

2015 - 7.68
2016 - 8.04
2017 - 7.91
2018 - 7.85

Those are the average age of harvested rams in Alberta. Not sure where you got your numbers. If you look at 2015 and 18 there was a few more native harvests of younger rams which drops the average. If you change those native harvest rams to 6-7 you end up pretty much 8 all across the board. I strongly feel there is nothing wrong with the way it is now and nothing wrong when you have good breeding stock with all the parks we now have and a average harvest age of 8.

Where can I find these stats?

[Acesneights]

Originally Posted by bdub

On the other side of the same coin if we eliminate the older rams from the harvest stats, say ten years plus, we come up around 7.5(2017-2018 #'s). A good portion of those older rams stumble out from parks, Cadomin, etc. Rams living entirely out of the parks have a tough time making it past legal and get killed young on average. Our breeding stock is largely young rams 6.5 years or younger.

I get what your saying but the “older” rams coming out of the park is a constant. The only reason I brought up raising a few rams age was due to an inconstant native harvest which varied because a few more young rams got shot in these two years. Your argument for any change is still weak at best but it creates great conversation, as that’s what it takes to come up with the best answers.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

I get what your saying but the “older” rams coming out of the park is a constant. The only reason I brought up raising a few rams age was due to an inconstant native harvest which varied because a few more young rams got shot in these two years. Your argument for any change is still weak at best but it creates great conversation, as that’s what it takes to come up with the best answers.

Well I guess this part is debatable. The way we are managing the sheep herd has left us consistently short of the management goals. We have few trophy rams left over post season since we harvest the majority of trophy rams each season as the surveys consistently show. So far I haven't seen any answers to improve the situation. Basically your answer is that "we don't have a problem." We should be satisfied with no legal rams left over post rut, poor ram survival for the remainder. I get that no one wants to change how we do things and the reasons, both resident sheep hunters and sheep outfitters. I don't think that we are doing the herd any favours by ignoring the goals of the management plan or denying the importance of them. Head in the sand seems to be the current thinking from most involved in this issue.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by bdub

Well I guess this part is debatable. The way we are managing the sheep herd has left us consistently short of the management goals. We have few trophy rams left over post season since we harvest the majority of trophy rams each season as the surveys consistently show. So far I haven't seen any answers to improve the situation. Basically your answer is that "we don't have a problem." We should be satisfied with no legal rams left over post rut, poor ram survival for the remainder. I get that no one wants to change how we do things and the reasons, both resident sheep hunters and sheep outfitters. I don't think that we are doing the herd any favours by ignoring the goals of the management plan or denying the importance of them. Head in the sand seems to be the current thinking from most involved in this issue.

So now your calling a barely legal Ram a trophy, I thought you called a full curl 10 1/2 + yr. old a trophy. I like to go out in the spring and snoop around and I've seen quite a few older rams over the years that have made it through the previous hunting season.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by RZR

So now your calling a barely legal Ram a trophy, I thought you called a full curl 10 1/2 + yr. old a trophy. I like to go out in the spring and snoop around and I've seen quite a few older rams over the years that have made it through the previous hunting season.

Trophy ram in this context is referring to how classify them in the surveys. How about I dumb it down for you and just call it 4/5 curl.

[Acesneights]

Originally Posted by bdub

Well I guess this part is debatable. The way we are managing the sheep herd has left us consistently short of the management goals. We have few trophy rams left over post season since we harvest the majority of trophy rams each season as the surveys consistently show. So far I haven't seen any answers to improve the situation. Basically your answer is that "we don't have a problem." We should be satisfied with no legal rams left over post rut, poor ram survival for the remainder. I get that no one wants to change how we do things and the reasons, both resident sheep hunters and sheep outfitters. I don't think that we are doing the herd any favours by ignoring the goals of the management plan or denying the importance of them. Head in the sand seems to be the current thinking from most involved in this issue.

We should not be talking about horn size or the word trophy shouldn’t even be in a sentence when talking about the overall health of a herd. The lamb to ewe ratio is great. The aerial surveys show that majority of the rams aren’t making it through the season but no matter where you place that line it will always get pushed. I just think it’s pointless and any change would be pointless to the overall health of the herd. We need value placed on sheep in order to mitigate forest incroachement and predator management by people who know what they are doing.

[bonedogg]

Originally Posted by Acesneights

We should not be talking about horn size or the word trophy shouldn’t even be in a sentence when talking about the overall health of a herd. The lamb to ewe ratio is great. The aerial surveys show that majority of the rams aren’t making it through the season but no matter where you place that line it will always get pushed. I just think it’s pointless and any change would be pointless to the overall health of the herd. We need value placed on sheep in order to mitigate forest incroachement and predator management by people who know what they are doing.

well said, all bdub talks about is trophy rams....... easy to see what some peoples goals are. it's not for healthy sheep herds , its when can I hunt a zone and be guaranteed a cranker ram!! jeepers, its called hunting for a reason.