Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 05-25-2019, 09:32 AM
omega50's Avatar
omega50 omega50 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedy1 View Post
You really think this? How about children that have very poor parents that cannot teach proper life skills, morals, values and manners? Would it be wrong for a coach, who the child may look up to as a mentor, to teach some of these skills?
Like Graham James
__________________
You're only as good as your last haircut
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 05-25-2019, 09:35 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person View Post
There should be balance. Time with parents. Time with friends. Kids who only spend time with parent/parents are often the ones with issues later.
Did I say otherwise?
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”

-Billy Molls
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 05-25-2019, 09:37 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedy1 View Post
You answered half my question..

You said your parents took you to church on Sundays. What lessons did you learn there? Is being taught a life lesson in a church different from being taught the same lesson on a skating rink or soccer field? There are good and bad people in all places on earth, a lot of people would consider being sent to a church to learn a lesson a poor choice in today's world. Just sayin...for sake of conversational balance. Interesting thread.
I agree. A lot of people would consider that a poor choice. You, however, have conveniently left out the rest of what I said.

I have never ever wished that I had played more sports as a youth. Ever. And I could have done better things. Why? Because I learned more noble and better things in other activities.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”

-Billy Molls
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 05-25-2019, 10:22 AM
Jamie Jamie is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omega50 View Post
Like Graham James
Or Catholic priests?
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-25-2019, 10:25 AM
omega50's Avatar
omega50 omega50 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Or Catholic priests?
Did not know Catholic Priests were coaches in organized Sports
__________________
You're only as good as your last haircut
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05-25-2019, 10:36 AM
Jamie Jamie is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omega50 View Post
Did not know Catholic Priests were coaches in organized Sports
For sure they are. Athol Murray school was started on that. But that was not my point.
My point was that anyone can be a predator. And you cant paint sports coaches/mentors/family friends with that brush.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:07 AM
ETOWNCANUCK ETOWNCANUCK is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,900
Default

Teenagers

Simple.

help out or move out.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:12 AM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,939
Default

Got two boys, 18 and 15.
Both smart in different ways. The oldest graduates in a month and already has his apprenticeship (auto) set up at the shop he has been working part time at the last year. He donates a lot of time to the place working on their race car (an Alfa Romeo). He has his friends and lately a girl has come on to the scene...he's so happy that he has a prom date.
The younger one as his sights set on university (geology) and with math and science average in grade 10 hovering around 98% I think he'll make.
They both find time to mow the lawn, do most of the yard work and clean up after themselves in the common areas of the house.
Years ago I read somewhere that if they are good kids and helping around the house that their rooms should be 'their' rooms. If they want it clean...good. If they leave it messy...so what. The only rule we have is no food left for days to rot and attract flies.
Really, it's not as if I'm entertaining in their rooms.
And I think I'm doing something right because they still like to spend time with their dad (that being me ) shooting, camping and playing pool.
There are time when I wish they'd do a bit more (I don't recall them ever washing a dish)...but they aren't on drugs, don't smoke and other than the odd beer don't drink. They seem to have good taste in friends, many of whom I've met.
To sum up, one of the main reasons I have as good kids as I do I heard and followed the advice the the OP's wife gave...their are a lot of hills just not worth dying on. If they are making intelligent choices as to friends, education, drugs/alcohol and such I don't really sweat it if I have to pick up after them occasionally.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-25-2019, 12:10 PM
3blade's Avatar
3blade 3blade is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,151
Default

Don’t have teens but have a good memory of being one, and two female cousins close in age.

Regarding the room: your wife is right. Close the door and ignore it. It’ll change when she’s paying her own way.

Regarding the son: sports (and phones, car keys, fishing trips ) are a luxury, attained by contributing and not being an azzhat. No chores done - no luxury. Gets the point across real quick. In my case mom could yell, threaten, clean, not clean, jump up and down and turn purple for all I cared. The words “you’re not going...” still kinda sting haha, because I knew damn well she was serious.


As for the side argument...chuck is kinda right. Good early on. Not so much later into teen years. They take over real quick and become the only basis for socializing, fitness, ambition...and then somewhere in highscool or shortly thereafter, 99.999% of kids realize they can’t keep advancing and have to move for school, and don’t know what to do with themselves. Can’t function outside of a structured environment. Base their entire self worth on the team and what others think. Not a good setup for adulthood where life is mostly self driven.
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-25-2019, 12:41 PM
Dean2's Avatar
Dean2 Dean2 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 14,971
Default

I would say it is time for a massive re-think and strategy adjustment for many on here. You owe kids a roof, food, basic clothing and education. Everything over that is a bonus. Instead of negotiating with them, remove all bonus items, car, phone, pocket money, clothes above min required, paid sports etc. Let the kid negotiate for what they are prepared to do to earn those extras. A specific set of work and jobs tied to each specific bonus item. Breach of deal, failure to perform, 1st offence - 6 month forfeiture, 2nd offence - permanent forfeiture of related extra. Outside work and income now required to pay for the extra themselves. Never back off the consequences, they are the one choosing to test you. Many will say this will never work, it really does, have seen it in action but both spouses need to back the play. (Never had kids myself but have two BILs that have used this system since their kids were small.)

You won't be popular but you also won't have to argue about it.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 05-25-2019, 12:41 PM
urban rednek's Avatar
urban rednek urban rednek is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,377
Default don't sweat the petty stuff

Messy room? Some perspective out of Saskatoon, with video:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/13-yea...rges-1.4436132

From the article:
Quote:
The first incident happened on the evening of May 13, when a 10-year-old girl and a 14-year-old girl reported being assaulted by a group of young people.
The second alleged assault occurred on May 20, when Bonnie Halcrow, 33, was swarmed by a group of at least four people, in an incident that was captured on video by a bystander.

The video shows multiple children kicking and hitting Halcrow, who falls to the ground.

“My back is still hurting. I can’t sleep on my sides, I have to sleep on my belly,” Halcrow told CTV Saskatoon on Friday, adding that she was “shocked” that a suspect was arrested.
If these kids were involved in organized sports, this never would have happened.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” - Thomas Sowell

“We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.”- Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 05-25-2019, 04:18 PM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
I would say it is time for a massive re-think and strategy adjustment for many on here. You owe kids a roof, food, basic clothing and education. Everything over that is a bonus. Instead of negotiating with them, remove all bonus items, car, phone, pocket money, clothes above min required, paid sports etc. Let the kid negotiate for what they are prepared to do to earn those extras. A specific set of work and jobs tied to each specific bonus item. Breach of deal, failure to perform, 1st offence - 6 month forfeiture, 2nd offence - permanent forfeiture of related extra. Outside work and income now required to pay for the extra themselves. Never back off the consequences, they are the one choosing to test you. Many will say this will never work, it really does, have seen it in action but both spouses need to back the play. (Never had kids myself but have two BILs that have used this system since their kids were small.)

You won't be popular but you also won't have to argue about it.
You don’t have kids...don’t.
They are just that, your kids, not indentured labourers.
I’ve given my boys every help I can. They appreciate...I’m in regular contact with my 18 year olds employer and he says he’s the best worker he has and can see him taking over the shop eventually. I get complimented all the time on how thoughtful, polite and responsible they are.
I helped them whenever I could and it is paying off in spades.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 05-25-2019, 05:52 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
I would say it is time for a massive re-think and strategy adjustment for many on here. You owe kids a roof, food, basic clothing and education. Everything over that is a bonus. Instead of negotiating with them, remove all bonus items, car, phone, pocket money, clothes above min required, paid sports etc. Let the kid negotiate for what they are prepared to do to earn those extras. A specific set of work and jobs tied to each specific bonus item. Breach of deal, failure to perform, 1st offence - 6 month forfeiture, 2nd offence - permanent forfeiture of related extra. Outside work and income now required to pay for the extra themselves. Never back off the consequences, they are the one choosing to test you. Many will say this will never work, it really does, have seen it in action but both spouses need to back the play. (Never had kids myself but have two BILs that have used this system since their kids were small.)

You won't be popular but you also won't have to argue about it.
Yeah. Like was said above.. Don't have kids. Wow.. Just wow.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:05 PM
Rdamours Rdamours is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Albert
Posts: 809
Default

We have 3 boys 25, 21, and 19. They were discouraged to have jobs in high school as they were in organized sports or were studying. Turn in 80-100 averages and you don't really have any duties other than emptying the dishwasher and basic cleaning up after themselves. Anything less than that for marks and you'd regret your workload. The oldest is graduating as a physiotherapist, 21 year old psych nurse and youngest wants to be a pediatrician and has pretty much a 4.0 gpa after first year university.

If we saw studying and results then everything is an all inclusive resort for you. If not you get a job mixing concrete by hand all summer and you'll soon realize that you will want to get paid for using your brain rather than your back.

When they graduate they can throw us some plane tickets now and then and we're all good. Too much leisure time is the devils work and doesn't lead to anything good. The quote earlier about being active physically and mentally hit the nail on the head. Fat dumb and lazy is not a way to go though life.

Last edited by Rdamours; 05-25-2019 at 06:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:16 PM
pikergolf's Avatar
pikergolf pikergolf is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,286
Default

It's no wonder this generation has no work ethic, holy cow what an eye opener. Responsibility starts at a very young age, by the time our kids started school they knew that messes were to be picked up before they went to bed. Guide your kids when they are young and these problems in the teens won't show up. We are to raise and guide our kids, not negotiate with them, or be their buddies.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”

Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:51 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdamours View Post
We have 3 boys 25, 21, and 19. They were discouraged to have jobs in high school as they were in organized sports or were studying. Turn in 80-100 averages and you don't really have any duties other than emptying the dishwasher and basic cleaning up after themselves. Anything less than that for marks and you'd regret your workload. The oldest is graduating as a physiotherapist, 21 year old psych nurse and youngest wants to be a pediatrician and has pretty much a 4.0 gpa after first year university.

If we saw studying and results then everything is an all inclusive resort for you. If not you get a job mixing concrete by hand all summer and you'll soon realize that you will want to get paid for using your brain rather than your back.

When they graduate they can throw us some plane tickets now and then and we're all good. Too much leisure time is the devils work and doesn't lead to anything good. The quote earlier about being active physically and mentally hit the nail on the head. Fat dumb and lazy is not a way to go though life.

A good friend of mine has two boys that had similar results. Older one now an electrical engineer, younger one finished two degrees in less than six years and is now heading to med school. However, they did not get any free passes. They both worked summer jobs and part time when going to school. They also were very active in team sports. They have also learned to earn with their brain not their back, but either one of them would have no problem mixing concrete by hand, swinging a hammer or digging a hole. Neither are fat dumb and lazy, neither are their parents. A good work ethic and the ability to work as part of a team are just as important if not more so than having intellect.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:08 PM
Dewey Cox's Avatar
Dewey Cox Dewey Cox is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 204
Posts: 5,397
Default

If you don't have kids, you can't give parenting advice?
Careful you don't break you neck falling off your high horse.
If impregnating a woman suddenly qualifies you as a wise guru, then I guess our standards are pretty low.
(And I have three kids, so by the logic on here, my advice is sound)
__________________
"I like to quote my own quotes" ~ Dewey Cox
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:10 PM
Dewey Cox's Avatar
Dewey Cox Dewey Cox is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 204
Posts: 5,397
Default

To answer Sns2's question, have you tried banning them for a month?
__________________
"I like to quote my own quotes" ~ Dewey Cox
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:19 PM
bessiedog's Avatar
bessiedog bessiedog is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,372
Default Ha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Cox View Post
If you don't have kids, you can't give parenting advice?
Careful you don't break you neck falling off your high horse.
If impregnating a woman suddenly qualifies you as a wise guru, then I guess our standards are pretty low.
(And I have three kids, so by the logic on here, my advice is sound)
My advice is betterer.... I got four kids. So there!
__________________
"How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live.”
-HDT
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends on the character of the user." T. Roosevelt
"I don't always troll, only on days that end in Y."
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:23 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
Default

There are two paths to success ... in spite of parents or because of them. Odds favor those in the last category.
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:26 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
My advice is betterer.... I got four kids. So there!
In that case, only listen to about 25% of what I said
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:49 PM
bessiedog's Avatar
bessiedog bessiedog is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,372
Default Ha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HVA7mm View Post
In that case, only listen to about 25% of what I said
So..... like my wife?
__________________
"How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live.”
-HDT
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends on the character of the user." T. Roosevelt
"I don't always troll, only on days that end in Y."
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 05-25-2019, 08:00 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
Default

Next to parents, teachers play an important role. So, do you want your child’s teacher to have and enforce standards, or would you prefer they “close the door” and ignore poor conduct?
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:28 PM
Rancid Crabtree Rancid Crabtree is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 691
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
It's no wonder this generation has no work ethic, holy cow what an eye opener. Responsibility starts at a very young age, by the time our kids started school they knew that messes were to be picked up before they went to bed. Guide your kids when they are young and these problems in the teens won't show up. We are to raise and guide our kids, not negotiate with them, or be their buddies.
Boy no kidding!!

For the OP - 19 is a adult, don't argue with her it's disrespectful to her. Just set down in a cheerful manner and tell her how much you enjoy her around and that she's welcome to stay- provided these few simple expectations are met. List them 1,2,3,4 and explain that if these seem unreasonable to her we will be glad to help you move to a place of your own and your always welcome to stop by for supper.
At 19 parenting is basically done. Not that we need to kick a kid out at 18 but staying longer is 100% privilege.
If she chooses to move, respect her decision and buy her some good housewarming gifts for her new place, tell her your proud of her.

With the younger brother, when you give him a job include a timeline and if timeline is not met don't allow him to go on until job is done. Anything he needs from you should be - no, come see me after the lawn is mowed proper.
If his poor decisions cost him something he likes he will soon be more diligent.

Of course don't over react in anger, don't get in a debate when you hold all the authority. And they sound like fairly normal kids.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:33 PM
Rdamours Rdamours is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Albert
Posts: 809
Default

You are right. The two biggest factors of success in life are a good work ethic and IQ. The smartest person on earth with little work ethic doesn't lead to anything. Both and the world is yours. IQ you may no have choice in but you can certainly make something of yourself with an exceptional work ethic. It's either shown by example from parenting, impressed upon them with chores and rewards from an early age or success in sports. I'm not sure if there is an magic formula but totally hands off and hoping for the best seems to be a formula for failure. It seems that this crazy way of life with both parents working lends itself to a void in a child's life that will fill itself with either good or bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HVA7mm View Post
A good friend of mine has two boys that had similar results. Older one now an electrical engineer, younger one finished two degrees in less than six years and is now heading to med school. However, they did not get any free passes. They both worked summer jobs and part time when going to school. They also were very active in team sports. They have also learned to earn with their brain not their back, but either one of them would have no problem mixing concrete by hand, swinging a hammer or digging a hole. Neither are fat dumb and lazy, neither are their parents. A good work ethic and the ability to work as part of a team are just as important if not more so than having intellect.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:37 AM
RavYak's Avatar
RavYak RavYak is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
Default

Daughter: You are a few years too late now. Once on her own she might get sick of everything being a mess and start cleaning up after herself more.

Son: I assume you provide him with some sort of extra benefits he values (paying for sports, giving him rides places or something along those lines). Give him 2 options. a) He does the chores without you badgering him or b) He gets a job, car etc and provides those benefits himself. Either option he chooses will help him in the long run.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:55 AM
Rdamours Rdamours is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Albert
Posts: 809
Default

It's true. There are a lot of excellent teachers out here leading the kids with a nudge in the right direction at the right time. Sometimes the teacher is the only role model they have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Next to parents, teachers play an important role. So, do you want your child’s teacher to have and enforce standards, or would you prefer they “close the door” and ignore poor conduct?
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 05-26-2019, 07:03 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
I was sitting at a table with my wife in their vicinity.

This behaviour is not atypical. At all. Like I said, I played organized sports. Let’s face it. Many of these “jocks” are the farthest thing from admirable human beings. Some never grow out of it. At my 20 year high school reunion one of them, realizing what a garbage human being he really had been, spent the entire night going around apologizing for his behaviour 20 years ago. Very admirable. But I didn’t see anyone that took their schooling seriously, worked part time jobs after school, or helped on the farm that would have needed to do the same.
In my opinion organized sports does not cause a kid to have a good or bad attitude or make or break a kid in general. It is up to the parents to install morals and raise them to act properly. The only 2 big advantages I see my son getting from sports is keeping physically active and busy so he has less time to be bored thinking of stupid things to do

Kids who act like idiots or don’t make something of them selves is mostly about how parents raise and interact or don’t interact with their kids nothing else

Mine are not perfect but they are also not an embarrassment and will likely be able to make something of themselves one day
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 05-26-2019, 07:24 AM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: onoway, Ab
Posts: 6,956
Default

I must have got lucky, my kids were pretty easy to raise. The only issue I have is my son keeping the shop clean. I have threatened a few times to move all of his stuff out of the shop if it’s not cleaned up, floor mopped and organized. I think he got the message because he has been good the last year.

Both my kids are very hard workers but I see many kids age 14-25 that are just plain lazy and have never been taught any kind of work ethic.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 05-26-2019, 07:43 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,499
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
“Or are active physically and mentally”.

Do you have a statistic that shows participation in organized sports produces more education? College sports would be a great baseline here.
Nope....could google it but then I get lured in by a individual trolling.....

Strong mind, body and soul......
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.