Dogs for grouse hunting

[M.C. Gusto]

Originally Posted by joshcat

Also do you know why their tail would look like after 1 hour. The prime reason we dock Gsp's

Actually after an hour not bad. whole seasons with no damage but i have seen some bad ones. you gotta love the long tail in the high grass though.

[bird_dog]

Originally Posted by joshcat

I am not trying to be rude but I do have some questions. You stated you wanted to professionally breed. Are you doing health Clearances? Do you have any for of hunt title on your dog to prove it is worthy of breeding and improving the breed. You are asking people to put out a lot of money, ate you offering a health guarantee? I ask these questions as that statement you made being innocent of course, is a slap in the face to people that work really hard at making sure every breeding they do Is to improve their lines. Being a professional breeder is alot different than making and selling puppies.

I'm always glad to answer any questions.
First and foremost as indicated in my earlier post it is my wife who is going to be in charge of breeding the dogs. She has plenty of experience with breeding dogs as she bred Yorkies and Pomeranians for 10 years together with her mom. Mendel's selective breeding is nothing new and its application in dog breeding is very well documented.
As to whether my dogs are "worthy" of being bred - they both confirm to EU and Canadian kennel club standards for Viszlas. They both come from hunting lines which I can prove through pedigrees. They do not have any titles, as one is just over a year and another just over 2. I hunt with both of them (one at a time, since they are young) throughout most of the year.
I will gladly give a health guarantee if the pups owner will sign a contract committing to feeding the dog Acana/Orijen, raw meat, fish, eggs and various root veggies and berries, as well as not over-vaccinating the dog.
Since I'm not intending to keep any of the money received for the pups - it is the owners responsibility to cover the vet assessment fee as well as vaccination/de-worming costs.
As for your snobby attitude - the dog breeding business is not for making a profit, hence I'm giving the first litter away in an exchange for a donation to a charity that I'm happy to support. I own a construction business which puts plenty of money in my bank account. Don't assume that I'm starting a puppy mill.
Frankly I don't see how any of my posts pertaining to the breeding of my Vizslas are an insult to any dog breeder. Care to elaborate as to whos' face I'm "slapping"?
Frankly, there are plenty of "breeders" who have contributed to the destruction of several breeds as hunting dogs. All you have to do is research the genetic defects of the more popular breeds. Show me a hunting Lab that doesn't have a hip problem at an older age? Care to show me a Vizsla with the same issue?
You are the one that jumps to conclusions without having any facts to base it on. "Assumption" is a good way to summarize your argument.
Do you have any actual questions?

[bird_dog]

Originally Posted by joshcat

You are asking people to put out a lot of money, ate you offering a health guarantee?

The bitch cost me 3,000 and the dog 2,000. If one grand is too much money, its not the dog for you...

[joshcat]

I wasn't going to counter but I will, first of all I wasn't being rude I was stating facts. Second of all coming from hunt lines and being a hunter are 2 different things. I didn't state that for you to get upset, as being a dog breeder and having the history I do I tend to ask questions about people breeding just because. I have done my homework and breeding toys and breeding continentals are not the same. No you don't make money breeding. Just because you are donating the money doesn't make you a better breeder. One of the most titled dogs in Canada that made the hall of fame was net bred. I know because she was mine. All I stated was title your dog, get the health clearances done. Make sure the only reason you are breeding is to better the breed. What r you looking for as an end result, conformation personality hunt quality? Talk to other breeders, join a club. I wasn't insulting you I was educating

[uncle buck]

http://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/ the trading post often has dogs for sale...
Check out you tube for some videos. Dave hughes has some pretty good ones.

I have had some dogs that beat their tails up in the woods and some that don't. On average I like a dog 150-200 yards out in the woods these dogs will run bigger -300 to 500 in the open sometimes more. Almost all well bred dogs will adjust their range to suite the cover. I've yet to see a hard charging dog out birded by a slow close working dog- its just math- the more ground you cover the more birds you will find. Lots of famous grouse dog kennels out there. Grouse ridge and long gone setters have been around since the fifties breeding cover dogs.

[M.C. Gusto]

Good post buck and good link

[bird_dog]

Originally Posted by joshcat

I wasn't going to counter but I will, first of all I wasn't being rude I was stating facts. Second of all coming from hunt lines and being a hunter are 2 different things. I didn't state that for you to get upset, as being a dog breeder and having the history I do I tend to ask questions about people breeding just because. I have done my homework and breeding toys and breeding continentals are not the same. No you don't make money breeding. Just because you are donating the money doesn't make you a better breeder. One of the most titled dogs in Canada that made the hall of fame was net bred. I know because she was mine. All I stated was title your dog, get the health clearances done. Make sure the only reason you are breeding is to better the breed. What r you looking for as an end result, conformation personality hunt quality? Talk to other breeders, join a club. I wasn't insulting you I was educating

Well, it seemed more along the lines of patronizing rather than educating. After all you did insinuate a number of things in your original post.
Regardless, Vizslas have already been bred to have a great personality that craves positive reinforcement from the master as well as a strong hunting instinct. We simply intend to uphold the legacy of this excellent breed.

[bird_dog]

As for docked tails and removed dewclaws - it is illegal to mutilate a dog in such a way in Europe, for some reason Canada is behind in that regard. Similar rhetoric is used to explain the necessity of pre-injury amputations of possible injury sites as the rhetoric used to justify mass removal of appendixes in children.

[32-40win]

Uncle Buck, I am a bit confused about your statement, about dogs working at 150-200yds in the bush? I can think of a number of places where I wouldn't be able to get to the dog in any reasonable length of time, if it was out that far on a bird. And there are places in the bush, where a dog can get itself into trouble that far out. At least, those are my first reaction thoughts to that scenario. Something a little haywire in that picture, to me. I know cat hounds do it, dogs trained for turkeys do it, but, can't visualize a normal bird dog out that far. My first thought, is risk of predator encounters in BC and Alberta, and quite a ways south of here. I'd need a quad or a buggy to keep up to a dog in the open at 3-500yds, how do they work that?

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by bird_dog

As for docked tails and removed dewclaws - it is illegal to mutilate a dog in such a way in Europe, for some reason Canada is behind in that regard. Similar rhetoric is used to explain the necessity of pre-injury amputations of possible injury sites as the rhetoric used to justify mass removal of appendixes in children.

If Canada adopted that rule I would never buy a dog here again.

[Versatile]

Since when is $1000 over priced for a well bred bird dog?

And when did this thread go from grouse dogs to a ****ing match about nothing between Joshcat and bird_dog?

Quit your moaning and lets talk about grouse dogs.

[bird_dog]

Originally Posted by Versatile

If Canada adopted that rule I would never buy a dog here again.

Why is that?

No ****ing match here by the way. I simply outlined my plan for the pups. Seems that it ruffled some feathers, lol.

[Versatile]

Not docking the tail does more harm than good. When they are puppies are just days old (when they dock) they cannot feel any pain because the nerve system has fully formed. All the puppies are feeling is a little pressure and its over with.

When they dogs are older and they are being hunted through sharp cattails and rose thickets that tail tip gets beaten so bad it goes raw. Been here, done that with 2 dogs now while my GSPs never have the issue because of their docked tails.

So its either 3 seconds of discomfort when the dog cant feel pain, or 13 years of a sore tail because its "cruel" to dock a dogs tail.

But thats not what this thread is about. This thread is about grouse dogs.

[puppyhood1]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Uncle Buck, I am a bit confused about your statement, about dogs working at 150-200yds in the bush? I can think of a number of places where I wouldn't be able to get to the dog in any reasonable length of time, if it was out that far on a bird. And there are places in the bush, where a dog can get itself into trouble that far out. At least, those are my first reaction thoughts to that scenario. Something a little haywire in that picture, to me. I know cat hounds do it, dogs trained for turkeys do it, but, can't visualize a normal bird dog out that far. My first thought, is risk of predator encounters in BC and Alberta, and quite a ways south of here. I'd need a quad or a buggy to keep up to a dog in the open at 3-500yds, how do they work that?

The range you are comfortable with a grouse pointer/setter would be personnel. I could see a lot of hunters being uncomfortable not seeing their dog in front of them for any length of time and not giving their dogs much free range. I think this would be due mainly do to lack of confidence in their dogs ability to remain staunch on birds with out the handlers being present. For me finding my dog on point after a long search for him/her is a exciting and the dogs honest manners with out me overseeing him is to be proud of. Pointers and Setters rule in the grouse woods in the manner in which one should hunt them with a shotgun not with a .22. I can't believe someone would try to combine the two........puppyhood1

[ACKLEY ABE]

Originally Posted by bird_dog

The bitch cost me 3,000 and the dog 2,000. If one grand is too much money, its not the dog for you...

Do you mind if I ask which breeder in Ontario?

[catnthehat]

I like a good grouse dog, no matter what breed!
Cat

[Rustydog]

Maybe i should just get a poodle like si robertson then. lol.


I dont want this thread going south!!!!! Lets play nice

Any info is great, ive heard so many new names of breeds in the last few days and there all great lookin dogs, i want a huntin buddy and foremost a family pet. of course i want it to come from a well bred back ground.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I like a good grouse dog, no matter what breed!

Here here!

While I love my dogs (and favour the breed for the hunting I do) there are great hunting dogs from all the breeds mentioned so far, as well as bunch if breeds not yet mentioned, and I think they are all really cool to watch do their job.

Let's leave the "professional vs. backyard breeder" discussion for another thread.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by bird_dog

Frankly, there are plenty of "breeders" who have contributed to the destruction of several breeds as hunting dogs. All you have to do is research the genetic defects of the more popular breeds. Show me a hunting Lab that doesn't have a hip problem at an older age? Care to show me a Vizsla with the same issue?

There are many things in your posts that are deep in foul ball territory. Some are easily verified by published facts. Labs have an 11% rate of dysplasia in tested dogs, Vizsla have a 7% rate. Hardly the difference you have imagined. You should have done your research.
Are your dogs tested for dysplasia?

[Dadirk]

I have been a Springer fan for years and did some breeding and think that Springers are great upland and waterfowl dogs. These three are 6 year old tri colored bitch and mom to the other 2 Liver colored is a 4 year old female that loves ducks and geese. The little Black male is 2 years old and just cutting his teeth on Upland. Off season these lunatics love ice fishing. The Liver girl sits by the hole and watches the bobber and barks when it moves.

[jryley]

Originally Posted by bird_dog

I'm always glad to answer any questions.
First and foremost as indicated in my earlier post it is my wife who is going to be in charge of breeding the dogs. She has plenty of experience with breeding dogs as she bred Yorkies and Pomeranians for 10 years together with her mom. Mendel's selective breeding is nothing new and its application in dog breeding is very well documented.
As to whether my dogs are "worthy" of being bred - they both confirm to EU and Canadian kennel club standards for Viszlas. They both come from hunting lines which I can prove through pedigrees. They do not have any titles, as one is just over a year and another just over 2. I hunt with both of them (one at a time, since they are young) throughout most of the year.
I will gladly give a health guarantee if the pups owner will sign a contract committing to feeding the dog Acana/Orijen, raw meat, fish, eggs and various root veggies and berries, as well as not over-vaccinating the dog.
Since I'm not intending to keep any of the money received for the pups - it is the owners responsibility to cover the vet assessment fee as well as vaccination/de-worming costs.
As for your snobby attitude - the dog breeding business is not for making a profit, hence I'm giving the first litter away in an exchange for a donation to a charity that I'm happy to support. I own a construction business which puts plenty of money in my bank account. Don't assume that I'm starting a puppy mill.
Frankly I don't see how any of my posts pertaining to the breeding of my Vizslas are an insult to any dog breeder. Care to elaborate as to whos' face I'm "slapping"?
Frankly, there are plenty of "breeders" who have contributed to the destruction of several breeds as hunting dogs. All you have to do is research the genetic defects of the more popular breeds. Show me a hunting Lab that doesn't have a hip problem at an older age? Care to show me a Vizsla with the same issue?
You are the one that jumps to conclusions without having any facts to base it on. "Assumption" is a good way to summarize your argument.
Do you have any actual questions?

Bird Dog im sorry.....but this post really infuriates me. We went over this in detail in a previous thread. How can any 'breeder' in good conscience put in writing that the future owner of his/or her pups must feed a specific food????? How do you in any way know if that specific food will be suitable for the dog in question? Do yourself a favour, clear your mind of the propaganda you seem to have bought into regarding dog foods, and re-read the entire previous thread regarding dog foods and feeding. By putting this in a contract, have you thought about what if one of YOUR pups' stomachs does not agree with said food? THEN WHAT????? Im sorry man, Josh seems to be acting in a little more tactful manner but Im going to throw it right out there within regards to what a few of us are thinking right now.....You have no business breeding dogs right now. You need to spend a good 2-5 years researching and building your own business plan and making contacts and educating yourself. Pomeranians and toy whatevers are a far cry from running a reputable hunting line breeding program.

That post put it beyond the line and honestly exhibited how and what to look for in a wanna be breeder (BACKYARD BREEDER).

Im not trying to come off harsh, but at the same time I am, as you need a swift kick of reality and education into what is proper and ethically correct when it comes to breeding dogs of any breed.

Go down to razor labs for a few weekends. Talk to them. Your wife really REALLY needs the education if she is going to be the one running it. Im absolutely blown away right now!!!!

[jryley]

Originally Posted by bird_dog

The bitch cost me 3,000 and the dog 2,000. If one grand is too much money, its not the dog for you...

A health gauruntee is nowadays the BARE MINIMUM any reputable breeder operates under. You are legitimately a scam artist if you aren't offering that at $1000.00 per pup.

[joshcat]

If you want to see that poodle in action you won't have to wait long. Angie and Rich Louter are friends of mine and I invited them up here for a guides waterfowl adventure.

[joshcat]

Killer is aka "cooper" of Louter creek hunting poodles

[Rustydog]

Originally Posted by joshcat

If you want to see that poodle in action you won't have to wait long. Angie and Rich Louter are friends of mine and I invited them up here for a guides waterfowl adventure.

hahaha really now that would be awesome to see lol i never though they would be used for birds, i just thought i was a funny thing on duck dinesty lol

the wife was lookin at pics of gsp puppies, so i'm thinkin she has picked the breed lol there was way to many awwwwss and o look look at this lol

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Rustydog

Maybe i should just get a poodle like si robertson then. lol.


I dont want this thread going south!!!!! Lets play nice

Any info is great, ive heard so many new names of breeds in the last few days and there all great lookin dogs, i want a huntin buddy and foremost a family pet. of course i want it to come from a well bred back ground.

If you want to shoot birds with your 22 you will be mostly flying by your own rules when it comes to hunting with a dog. I met a fellow with a couple of GWP's that was extolling their utility as a Ruffed Grouse dog. The trait he was most in love with was that they would bark "treed". Made it real easy to find them in the heavy bush and made it real easy to bag the grouse with his 22 safely.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Rustydog

the wife was lookin at pics of gsp puppies, so i'm thinkin she has picked the breed lol there was way to many awwwwss and o look look at this lol

Better get out the puppy pics of the breed you like - I think awww and oooohhh are pretty standard for puppies regardless of breed. (Not that the GSP would be a bad breed)

[Rustydog]

Originally Posted by joshcat

Killer is aka "cooper" of Louter creek hunting poodles

man thats cool i learn something new everyday, i dont think im a poodle kinda guy but thats still frickin sweet lol
http://www.redhuntingpoodles.com/

[Farid]

Originally Posted by Dadirk

I have been a Springer fan for years and did some breeding and think that Springers are great upland and waterfowl dogs. These three are 6 year old tri colored bitch and mom to the other 2 Liver colored is a 4 year old female that loves ducks and geese. The little Black male is 2 years old and just cutting his teeth on Upland. Off season these lunatics love ice fishing. The Liver girl sits by the hole and watches the bobber and barks when it moves.

Beautiful dogs. They are amazing upland dogs. I have been hunting with one for over 3 years now.

I have just learned that one of the English Spaniel Breeders had a litter of 7 puppies a couple of weeks ago.

I have one already and thinking of getting another puppy from her.

Rustydog, if you want to look at the dogs and get to know the breed better, just let me know. I can refer you to the breeder.

[Rustydog]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

If you want to shoot birds with your 22 you will be mostly flying by your own rules when it comes to hunting with a dog. I met a fellow with a couple of GWP's that was extolling their utility as a Ruffed Grouse dog. The trait he was most in love with was that they would bark "treed". Made it real easy to find them in the heavy bush and made it real easy to bag the grouse with his 22 safely.

that would be pretty cool too, i was hunting with my cuz a few yrs ago and his brittney and thats how he was shooting them. i think id use a 410 or something until i know what im doing lol

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Better get out the puppy pics of the breed you like - I think awww and oooohhh are pretty standard for puppies regardless of breed. (Not that the GSP would be a bad breed)

haha aint that the truth, i think one day when im rich and famous im gonna have a ton of bird dogs cause they all seem so dam awesome lol