Dogs for grouse hunting

[bird_dog]

Check out Wirehaired Pointing Griffons, German Shorthaired Pointers, Cesky Fuseks, Spinone Italliano and of course ... Vizslas.

Might as well get a dog that can do more than grouse, with versatiles you can hunt waterfowl, hares, etc and have a great family dog as most of them are very loving, gentle creatures.

[ACKLEY ABE]

Originally Posted by joshcat

Ask away, thanks for the intro Cat. I run Gsp's. Contrary to belief , I hunt show lines with a good history of hunt lines. I have in girl that hunts better in tight cover and one that is open field and waterfowl. They both do well either way but they both have their strong suits. Some people do not like purebreds. That is simply because they do not know the benefits or have come across poor breeders. The good side of it is I know where I want me lines to go. I know what the end result of my program will be. I breed for health, form personality and hunt ability. I use Gsp's because of their drive but also their family bond. My Canadian show titled girl I would put up against any grouse dog on the planet. But if you are looking for a hunting companion do your research and find out what dog suits your lifestyle and family needs. If you have any specific breed questions I will help out as best I can

Well said. I don't hunt my show dog...I show...my hunting dog.. By the way what's you girl's name? I always watch the GSP's...

[Winch101]

Abe has the best grouse dog especially ruffles I have ever owned....

Back in Man .we mostly shot ruffles ,I had 4 viszlas , lab ,Brits ,1english pointer

All were good on Sharps but I had 2 viszlas who could pick up ruffs at a quarter

Mile in the bush ...I have not hunted ruffs here ....I like to keep an eye on the

Griffon .....I don't know about bush work with him.....I wouldn't know where

To Look for ruffs. Just wander around west of 22 ...??

[rhuntley12]

Originally Posted by Winch101

Abe has the best grouse dog especially ruffles I have ever owned....

Back in Man .we mostly shot ruffles ,I had 4 viszlas , lab ,Brits ,1english pointer

All were good on Sharps but I had 2 viszlas who could pick up ruffs at a quarter

Mile in the bush ...I have not hunted ruffs here ....I like to keep an eye on the

Griffon .....I don't know about bush work with him.....I wouldn't know where

To Look for ruffs. Just wander around west of 22 ...??

Yep, pretty much. I'm going west of Millarville next weekend, but usually go west of Turner Valley. We camp in Sandy Mcnabb and tons of areas out there. Last year was TONS on the otherside of the river from Sandy Mcnabb but haven't been across the river this year.

Couple years ago was around Cobble Flats in Mclean area and saw a few.

[stob]

Originally Posted by Farid

I have English Cocker Spaniel, which is a relatively rare breed here in Western Canada. I had mine flown from Eastern Canada. They are quite popular in Europe.

He is very good at pointing, flushing and also retrieving. So if you decide to switch to waterfowl hunting in the future this is a universal dog…and will do well both upland and waterfowl.

Another good thing about English cockers is that they are medium size, which makes them portable, easy to transport and fit into any environment (condo for example).

Very nice temperament. Good with kids aslo.

Good luck

Agreed, I have always had field springers and my next will be the medioum E. Cocker... same dog just smaller ... specialised for woodcock and heavey cover. As per pointersIi really liked the brittanys I have worked over. You could also get a pointing lab. I trained one of springers to point when working with pointing dogs ... pls pass on the breeder from E. Canada

[Rustydog]

Originally Posted by bird_dog

Check out Wirehaired Pointing Griffons, German Shorthaired Pointers, Cesky Fuseks, Spinone Italliano and of course ... Vizslas.

Might as well get a dog that can do more than grouse, with versatiles you can hunt waterfowl, hares, etc and have a great family dog as most of them are very loving, gentle creatures.

Vizslas are really nice looking dogs too, i was chatting with a lady in BC that breeds them for show dogs but not hunting, any info on hunting dog breeders?

[ACKLEY ABE]

Originally Posted by Rustydog

Vizslas are really nice looking dogs too, i was chatting with a lady in BC that breeds them for show dogs but not hunting, any info on hunting dog breeders?

I don't know who you were talking to in BC but almost all breeders breed for field and confirmation (if it looks like a Vizsla, it should act like a Vizsla). Sherry-Anne Farr,for example, her Sydney has many group placements and a whack of breed wins in the show ring and ........she is a wonderful field dog as well.....and Sherry-Anne is not a hunter, but she believes in maintaining the breed and their abilities.

If you are looking for a good V, try Sherry-Anne Farr (Blackbullets Vizsla's).

She does not have any, hers are sold well before they are born...but she knows all of the good breeders in North America. She will recommend someone.

[joshcat]

Ch. Swanspoint Rovin Gypsy,

[jpohlic]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

You will find that pretty quickly hunting with a dog becomes about 'hunting with a dog', not filling the pot, so to speak.

Ain't that the truth. We have 3 britts and my wife enjoys watching them hunt so much that she doesn't even take her shotgun out anymore. So when we go home with an "empty pot" there's only one person to blame... and it isn't her!

[ACKLEY ABE]

Originally Posted by joshcat

Ch. Swanspoint Rovin Gypsy,

very nice...nice site too, by the way.

[gilbertslake]

Originally Posted by Rustydog

i love the looks of the gsp's but i was just googling pointing labs they seem pretty sweet too. what kind of breeds do ya guys have?

When I was in UK we hunted with Labs and Welsh Springer Spaniels. The two breeds worked well together. The Springers were great cover busters when in thick cover and they flushed many pheasants for us. The Labs let the Springers do the hard work then would chase down wounded runner birds as well as retirving dead birds.

I have a Lab now that goes on point naturally, as he has not been trained to point. He stands with one leg raised and tail straight back when he is on to a hot scent. We used him on pheasants last year and he did pretty well, although when the birds flushed he felt he should try to chase them down. I also had him standing on point to sharpies and ruffies.

He retrieves ducks and geese. Only problem is, with geese he now associates the sound of geese coming in on decoys as a signal to retrieve (he is too eager) and occasionally he will leave cover before I get a shot off. Usually, his need to break out gets worse as the season progresses and he knows that the sound of the geese is his signal to spring into action.

I have bought an electronic collar trainer to see if I ca get him to stop the urge to break out early and instead, to wait until the guns are fired and he gets the signal to retrieve.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by gilbertslake

When I was in UK we hunted with Labs and Welsh Springer Spaniels. The two breeds worked well together. The Springers were great cover busters when in thick cover and they flushed many pheasants for us. The Labs let the Springers do the hard work then would chase down wounded runner birds as well as retirving dead birds.

I have a Lab now that goes on point naturally, as he has not been trained to point. He stands with one leg raised and tail straight back when he is on to a hot scent. We used him on pheasants last year and he did pretty well, although when the birds flushed he felt he should try to chase them down. I also had him standing on point to sharpies and ruffies.

He retrieves ducks and geese. Only problem is, with geese he now associates the sound of geese coming in on decoys as a signal to retrieve (he is too eager) and occasionally he will leave cover before I get a shot off. Usually, his need to break out gets worse as the season progresses and he knows that the sound of the geese is his signal to spring into action.

I have bought an electronic collar trainer to see if I ca get him to stop the urge to break out early and instead, to wait until the guns are fired and he gets the signal to retrieve.

While I am a user of E-collars, in this case I would suggest it is not really appropriate, and likely not very effective.

Your dog needs to learn how to sit until released, under all circumstances, with endless distractions and temptations. This can only be done through repetitive training (not hunting) where you have control and can tempt him to break, over and over (firing a shotgun, throwing a live bird in front of his nose, with the neighbours cat running through the yard...).

Using a collar to suddenly try and stop him during actual hunting is going to cause confusion and possibly create other unforseen behaviour problems.

If you are looking for an immediate end to the breaking NOW, stake him out and only release him when you want him to fetch.



A short while ago I heard a couple dog trainers talking about training; one of them piped up stating "I have learned a lot over 25 years about how to create a pretty good gun dog. The old timer nodded his head, took a sip of his drink and responded, "Over 40 years I have learned a lot of things NOT to do, to turn out a pretty good gun dog."

[gilbertslake]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

While I am a user of E-collars, in this case I would suggest it is not really appropriate, and likely not very effective.

Your dog needs to learn how to sit until released, under all circumstances, with endless distractions and temptations. This can only be done through repetitive training (not hunting) where you have control and can tempt him to break, over and over (firing a shotgun, throwing a live bird in front of his nose, with the neighbours cat running through the yard...).

Using a collar to suddenly try and stop him during actual hunting is going to cause confusion and possibly create other unforseen behaviour problems.

If you are looking for an immediate end to the breaking NOW, stake him out and only release him when you want him to fetch.



A short while ago I heard a couple dog trainers talking about training; one of them piped up stating "I have learned a lot over 25 years about how to create a pretty good gun dog. The old timer nodded his head, took a sip of his drink and responded, "Over 40 years I have learned a lot of things NOT to do, to turn out a pretty good gun dog."

The collar is actually being used so far at my home and not during hunting. We have a lot of geese flying over now in early morning and in the evening. I have sat out in the back yard with my dog and he perks up his ears when he hears the geese, but so far he hasn't ventured to go look for them and I haven't had to use the collar in shock mode.

When I get home next week, I will be taking him to an acreage I hunt, to get him more used to the sound of geese at closer quarters and I have a starting pistol that I will be using to train him so he will wait until the gun is fired then he gets the command to go retreive.

I am fully aware that the field is not the place to be using it and have no intention of doing so.

I should have mentioned in my post how the collar is being used, as your comments are sound advice and echo what I am already doing. I recommend anyone using a collar to research how to use it first, as I have done and not just go headlong into using one.

[joshcat]

Thanks man, I actually have to change the format to make it bigger.

[bird_dog]

I'll make a separate post about this once the "roast" is in the "oven".
However I'm breeding my pedigreed Vizslas (dog: Ontario, bitch: Hungary) as soon as the bitch is in heat, which should be a couple weeks away. Usually there are 12-16 pups per litter. Quite the large number if you consider that the Vizsla is the smallest of the hunting breeds.
My wife intends to professionally breed the dogs, so we are keeping 3 pups from their first litter for future hunting partners/breeding stock.
We want the pups to go to hunting homes exclusively. It is an essential part of the Vizslas nature and it would be unfair to rob the dog of it.
As payment I want a minimum $1000 donation in a form of a certified cheque made out to Ducks Unlimited Canada.
A chance to get a great hunting dog AND look after the quarry that we harvest...
PM me if you have any questions.

Edit: pic, they look confused, lol
Zeus and Xena

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by bird_dog

.
As payment I want a minimum $1000 donation in a form of a certified cheque made out to Ducks Unlimited Canada.


Edit: pic, they look confused, lol
Zeus and Xena

That is a great idea BD. Really good of you.

[bird_dog]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

That is a great idea BD. Really good of you.

Aww shucks. By the way I'm not affiliated with DUC in any way. I was just going to drop the cheques off in an envelope.

[joshcat]

I am not trying to be rude but I do have some questions. You stated you wanted to professionally breed. Are you doing health Clearances? Do you have any for of hunt title on your dog to prove it is worthy of breeding and improving the breed. You are asking people to put out a lot of money, ate you offering a health guarantee? I ask these questions as that statement you made being innocent of course, is a slap in the face to people that work really hard at making sure every breeding they do Is to improve their lines. Being a professional breeder is alot different than making and selling puppies.

[Rustydog]

Hey thats pretty good

A short while ago I heard a couple dog trainers talking about training; one of them piped up stating "I have learned a lot over 25 years about how to create a pretty good gun dog. The old timer nodded his head, took a sip of his drink and responded, "Over 40 years I have learned a lot of things NOT to do, to turn out a pretty good gun dog."[/QUOTE]

[Winch101]

Good point Josh ....Abe's Viszla breeder ....Black Bullet Viszlas
Interesting read on website.....Lots of good questions....to ask...

I think particularly with versatile dogs or continental breed ,if your not
Extending 2good bloodlines producing remarkable dogs now ,your dreaming.

Chances of starting a wonder litter from so so dogs is zilch ..

I have had a few different Versatiles ,over 40 years , now that I have had a Griffon a breed from a very small gene pool which breeders will tell you
Is a good thing ....I don't buy that now ...in fact it just keeps the genetic
Defects skip jumping around...

I won't have another Griff , I got lucky here in the birdy dept , but this dog
Has a lot of physical dilemmas I now know comes with the breed .

I mean Dog Breeding is a science I'm just saying quite a few mad scientists out there .

[uncle buck]

Back to the original topic, the top wild bird ruffed grouse trial dogs are english setters followed by English pointers. These trials are held in eastern Canada and the north east us. There are occasional wins by Brittany spaniels but they are rare. Check out the cover dog message board they often have pups for sale from proven top performers for far less than1000$

[theycallmeNoah]

Originally Posted by jpohlic

Ain't that the truth. We have 3 britts and my wife enjoys watching them hunt so much that she doesn't even take her shotgun out anymore. So when we go home with an "empty pot" there's only one person to blame... and it isn't her!

Even if I did take my shotgun out we would still be going home with an "empty pot". I can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn now

Time to "make" me come to the range with you honey

[joshcat]

I spoke to the OP yesterday, pretty decent guy asked the right questions. I offered to bring him up to see my dogs at the house and run him on some birds to see if he is on the right track as for what he is looking for.

[joshcat]

Where have you seen ruffed grouse trials? I lived in eastern Canada most of my life and never came across one.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by joshcat

Where have you seen ruffed grouse trials? I lived in eastern Canada most of my life and never came across one.

I never lived in eastern anywhere, but "wild bird ruffed grouse field trials" would be news to me.


God, if only there were that many ruffed grouse around.... hell, that many wild birds!

[M.C. Gusto]

Guys cover dog trials have been held for a long long long time. basically from ontario to the Atlantic. They are almost always won by english setters and pointers.

Get a dog from cover trial lines would be my route. Chasehill Little Bud etc.

[joshcat]

Have you ever hunted a field trial dog in heavy cover. English pointers are bred to run big and hard. Excellent choice if you are running in field trials. Not so much in rough grouse country. Not that they can't be trained but not the optimum choice.

[joshcat]

Also do you know why their tail would look like after 1 hour. The prime reason we dock Gsp's

[Winch101]

We tried some dynamite quail dogs in big bush....Heard bell and wing all day

But no boom..... Those little springers probably be good...

[M.C. Gusto]

Originally Posted by joshcat

Have you ever hunted a field trial dog in heavy cover. English pointers are bred to run big and hard. Excellent choice if you are running in field trials. Not so much in rough grouse country. Not that they can't be trained but not the optimum choice.

Yes i have and do. EPs come in all flavours, big running, short running etc. You simply look for the kennel thats breeding the type of dog you want. Go with cover trial bred dogs and your that much closer to finding a good grouse dog imo.