alberta beef producers proposing pay to play

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by expmler

Typical, can't support your position so you resort to name calling and mockery.

What position. I don't hunt in Saskatchewan . I hunt in Alberta. I just can't figure out what it is you expect us to do for you . You want people to pay you for the privilege of helping you increase your profit margins I guess. Good luck with that ,let me know how it works out.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Unless you are doing something very wrong, you should get a crop, even if the elk do eat some of it.

My crop is my paycheck, how much of our paycheck do you spend feeding elk.

[Gust]

wait a second; wasn't there an article on hunt farms awhile back? Now buying a farm to provide hunting on would not be a prudent business decision me-thinks. But if it got the go ahead, who's to stop me from leasing - we'll say exmplrs farm - and charge for hunting? Or do I have to raise my own hunting stock?

Is this the direction that the corporate/govt hitmen are looking at seeding or am I wearing a Reynolds Wrap Balaclava to tight?

And we'll pretend exmplr is in Alberta.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by skidderman

It is their land. They pay the taxes, they own it. End of story. Does anyone tell you what they can or can't do on your property? To think that any of us can force permission on another person's property is just not right. If I was a farmer, (I'm not) and someone came on my land with that attitude they would not have a single chance of ever hunting on it. If we as a hunting community continue to disrespect farmers then we will truly lose that priviledge forever. Most farmers that don't give permission, don't for one reason. That is that some idiots thought it was a right to do whatever they wanted. If this is the kind of attitude we have in our hunting community I pity us all!!!

You own the land, you pay the taxes, you decide if, who, and when you let someone hunt on your land. However, paid access isn't legal, and neither is shooting the animals that are damaging your crop without the proper license. Either build fences, allow some hunters, or just accept your losses.

[elkhunter11]

My crop is my paycheck, how much of our paycheck do you spend feeding elk.

I pay part of my paycheck, to go kill an elk, and by doing so, I reduce your crop losses, and increase your paycheck.

[bhguy]

Its my land....not my game animals

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

Between me you and the fencepost (which in Internet world means millions of others),, have you ever accepted a gratuity from hunters or put out word to come hunt your land without a gratuity?

For the record: the tax I pay a year to live in Calgary is equal to the tax I would pay in Saskatchewan for 300 hectares of prime black soil farmland. Sadly, the drive to go fish is too far.

May have received the odd bottle of Rye from some appreciative hunters. No hunter on my land has been asked for a gratuity. Come to my yard and ask permission, fill your boots.

I also pay land tax, 5200 hectares.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

My crop is my paycheck, how much of our paycheck do you spend feeding elk.

doesn't that fall under crop damage? Insurable, tax breaks, et al...

[Gust]

An old report, 2007, from the University of Regina.

Last year, for instance, federal and provincial governments spent an average $3.53 in subsidies for every dollar earned on Canadian farms.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You own the land, you pay the taxes, you decide if, who, and when you let someone hunt on your land. However, paid access isn't legal, and neither is shooting the animals that are damaging your crop without the proper license. Either build fences, allow some hunters, or just accept your losses.

What other recreational activities other than hunting and fishing do you get to do without paying a fee. Skating rink, campsite, swimming pool, ball diamond, soccer field, gym all have costs and owners all charge fees. You don't pay the fee you don't get access.

[Ranch11]

Issue more landowner tags would solve this. Give me 10 deer tags and 10 elk tags. Or just let me shoot what I want on my land. I'm not making any money feeding wildlife. Or let us sell that meat as well.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

doesn't that fall under crop damage? Insurable, tax breaks, et al...

Do you think crop insurance comes without premiums?

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by expmler

What other recreational activities other than hunting and fishing do you get to do without paying a fee. Skating rink, campsite, swimming pool, ball diamond, soccer field, gym all have costs and owners all charge fees. You don't pay the fee you don't get access.

We do pay fees
It's called licenses

Last time I checked, I didn't need a license to swing a baseball bat.

Jamie

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by expmler

May have received the odd bottle of Rye from some appreciative hunters. No hunter on my land has been asked for a gratuity. Come to my yard and ask permission, fill your boots.

You're kind of riding both sides of the fence here Expmler.On one hand you begrudge the hunter getting what in your mind amounts to a free ride ,but on the other hand you never turn anyone away from that free ride. You don't strike me as the type that knowingly does anything without there being something in it for you so you must see a benefit to having hunters come on your land. It seems like all your posts are more designed to stir things up than anything else.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

An old report, 2007, from the University of Regina.

Last year, for instance, federal and provincial governments spent an average $3.53 in subsidies for every dollar earned on Canadian farms.

So farms could be profitable while keeping prices down so you can get your groceries cheap. Let farmers set the price for what they produce like any other business and this debate would never come up.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

What other recreational activities other than hunting and fishing do you get to do without paying a fee. Skating rink, campsite, swimming pool, ball diamond, soccer field, gym all have costs and owners all charge fees. You don't pay the fee you don't get access.

But when I skate, camp, swim, swing bat, kick ball, tumble I'm not correcting a problem the owner has with ice, fire pits, splashing, dugouts, lawns or mats.

If you are a hunt farm and it's legal then I'm sure you'll have no end of paying customers. But if you have a problem with pests, well then it falls into another category altogether. However should I want a bushel of rape seed...

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

So farms could be profitable while keeping prices down so you can get your groceries cheap. Let farmers set the price for what they produce like any other business and this debate would never come up.

I'm anti subsidy but it doesn't mean that you're all alone out there.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

You're kind of riding both sides of the fence here Expmler.On one hand you begrudge the hunter getting what in your mind amounts to a free ride ,but on the other hand you never turn anyone away from that free ride. You don't strike me as the type that knowingly does anything without there being something in it for you so you must see a benefit to having hunters come on your land. It seems like all your posts are more designed to stir things up than anything else.

If you notice every post before my first one was all from one point of view. I am both a hunter and farmer. Would I like to pay for access not really, but I do understand the concerns of land owners first hand. If all you want here is a one sided bitch session, fine.I just want to provide the point of view from the other side.

Do I think I am going to change any minds? NO.

This is the second time in this thread you have made negative comments about me and my intentions.

I will not respond in kind.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

I'm anti subsidy but it doesn't mean that you're all alone out there.

No, pretty much all alone here though.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

No, pretty much all alone here though.

By choice.

Don't worry oil & gas get the lions share of subsidies in Canada and if I'm not mistaken Harper moonlights as chief lobbyist for the C.A.P.P. I wish the PM would lobby that strong for other industry. Different thread, apologies.

Quick question; let's say hypothetically every deer and elk and antelope were moved off your land permanently never to return, would you be happy?

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Jamie

We do pay fees
It's called licenses

Last time I checked, I didn't need a license to swing a baseball bat.

Jamie

What you pay in hunting licenses goes to the gov't. They bear no cost.

When you pay a fee to swing a bat it goes to the operator of the diamond who bears the cost of providing the diamond.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

By choice.

Don't worry oil & gas get the lions share of subsidies in Canada and if I'm not mistaken Harper moonlights as chief lobbyist for the C.A.P.P. I wish the PM would lobby that strong for other industry. Different thread, apologies.

Quick question; let's say hypothetically every deer and elk and antelope were moved off your land permanently never to return, would you be happy?

From a strictly business standpoint probably.

As a hunter no, but I also don't want to have some ones livelihood suffer because I want a free lunch.

I pay hunting license fees to the gov't so some MLA can have a fat expense account, I would rather pay that fee to a land owner that provides me access and opportunity.

[wolfriver]

Originally Posted by skidderman

It is their land. They pay the taxes, they own it. End of story. Does anyone tell you what they can or can't do on your property? To think that any of us can force permission on another person's property is just not right. If I was a farmer, (I'm not) and someone came on my land with that attitude they would not have a single chance of ever hunting on it. If we as a hunting community continue to disrespect farmers then we will truly lose that priviledge forever. Most farmers that don't give permission, don't for one reason. That is that some idiots thought it was a right to do whatever they wanted. If this is the kind of attitude we have in our hunting community I pity us all!!!

Well said Skidderman.
I have people hunting on my land every year, between family and friends it gets kind of crowded, but people with your attitude are always welcome.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

From a strictly business standpoint probably.

As a hunter no, but I also don't want to have some ones livelihood suffer because I want a free lunch.

I pay hunting license fees to the gov't so some MLA can have a fat expense account, I would rather pay that fee to a land owner that provides me access and opportunity.

and once again it's the slippery slope of whose wildlife it is and who has access to it,, what a weird paradox.

[HunterDave]

Last year I took a couple of does off one fellas land who needed to thin the herd a bit. I could have filled those tags just about anywhere but I drove 50 kms because it served a purpose. Everyone was happy about it, what's the problem?

[TreeGuy]

At the end of the day, crop/livestock losses are simply a cost of doing business, and can be mitigated through a variety of avenues. Every company through every industry has to plan for and overcome similar obstacles, usually with far fewer options than farmers have. I can understand the frustration, but if your unfenced bales are getting torn up, I really have little sympathy.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by expmler

What you pay in hunting licenses goes to the gov't. They bear no cost.

When you pay a fee to swing a bat it goes to the operator of the diamond who bears the cost of providing the diamond.

fimoney comes from government coffers to subsidize your losses. they do bear a burden of cost that tax payers across the nation funnel funds into hunters and vegetarian alike.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by expmler

No, pretty much all alone here though.

In regards to the elk problem that you have on your land.....

Thank you for not taking matters into your own hands.

Allowing and encouraging ecological integrity at a financial loss is commendable as well as allowing hunting access.

I wish more landowners had your attitude.

[Arachnodisiac]

It's an intensely complicated issue, and this is one aspect of a much larger one referred often to ecological goods and services.

Landowners with native, unbroken ground province the province with countless services of high value. One of those services is allowing hunters to access private land for the purpose of securing food. Another service is keeping healthy land with strong biodiversity provides habitat and continual pollen and nectar sources for wild bees. Those wild bees in turn provide pollination for crop farmers who otherwise would not have the diversity needed to sustain the hives necessary for pollination. There are others such as sequestering carbon, watershed improvement, etc.

The trouble is that these landowners frequently see their own bottom lines impacted by the demands of providing these eco services. Right now, cattle prices are high, but when they drop, this is when we see ground broken and lost forever. Manitoba has less than one per cent of its native grasslands remaining, and what is left is in a park. Manitoba used to have burrowing owls, (more) mule deer, plains grizzly, and pronghorn. Now they hardly even have any badgers to speak of. (I'm missing a bunch of species they've lost too, but it's late and I'm tired.)

Anyway, it's really important to remember that this is one part of a much longer discussion. At some point, there will likely be some kind of compensation model developed for eco services, but I very much doubt it will come directly out of the pockets of hunters as an upfront cost.

It is worth noting that hunters do fund the compensation offered for livestock predation.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

It's tough to sympathize with lost livestock when there is no access, or elk or deer eating feed with no access. But I know a guy who complains about both and complains about getting no access and doesn't give any lol

A trifecta of complaints....and a self fulfilled prophesy....lol