Ali#1, you were right about Arizona.

[Winch101]

One thing all this hullabaloo about Gay rights has shown me is ,that
That closet is friggin huge .....I didn't realize there were so many gay
Lesbian people in our society . You can add hetero to that white person
Who is soon gonna be a minority ...

Or is it there are so many Liberals who would ,be for anything the
Conservative agenda stands for .......if you can't see the far reaching results
of decimating the gene pool ...that gayness does .....than I'm glad your not in charge.
More dangerous than the religious zealot is the current arrival of the militant
Atheist ....

My theory is that women talk men into being gay.. Any married guy can tell you
That he never had any thoughts about playing for the other team , till his wife
Started talking.....Hmmmmm he thinks my buddies don't talk as much ...
And that's how it starts

Lefty ,you kill me man ..

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

Any idea what the Koran says about gay marriage?

I am not sure about exactly what the Quran says about gay marriage, but I know that Islam in general is not as tolerant of it as Christians.

Lots on the internet. This is one


http://islam.about.com/od/islamsays/a/homosexuality.htm

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I am not sure about exactly what the Quran says about gay marriage, but I know that Islam in general is not as tolerant of it as Christians.

Lots on the internet. This is one


http://islam.about.com/od/islamsays/a/homosexuality.htm

Kinda my point.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

You don't know me, you don't know my religion, and you don't know how I live my life, so how can you come up with such a comment about me?

My point is, and always will be, how do we balance rights without harming each other.

Many religions, not just Christians consider homosexuality as a sin. By forcing someone to provide certain services, such as marrying them can be seen as forcing that person to violate their religious convictions, and this would be a violation of their religious rights.

Wasn't an attack on you, please don't take it as one.

The fact is that this was a bill started by a bunch of right-wing 'christians'.

[Kaz Dog]

In our country, freedom and the rule of law trumps any religion/religious belief. Even if we were founded by Christian people, they understood - historically - what being persecuted for their beliefs were. Let God, at the pearly gates, be the judge and don't try and think for him. In your home and at your religious building, you have 100% say about your religious beliefs - as long as they do not contravene legislation. Anywhere in public, you must operate "to the law". So if you are operating a business "in public/under the law", buck up. Not asking you to like it, just respect the persecution that has gone before - historically.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

Any idea what the Koran says about gay marriage?

I'm sure it's quite intolerant, just as the old testament is. I don't think it's right for anyone to hide their bigoted views behind a religious book. It's cowardly.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by whammy

I'm sure it's quite intolerant, just as the old testament is. I don't think it's right for anyone to hide their bigoted views behind a religious book. It's cowardly.

Ahhhh, the "B" word. Synonymous with the term hypocrite.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Ahhhh, the "B" word. Synonymous with the term hypocrite.

Care to expand on that thought?

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by whammy

I'm sure it's quite intolerant, just as the old testament is. I don't think it's right for anyone to hide their bigoted views behind a religious book. It's cowardly.

How is disagreeing with someone being a bigot?

Simply disagreeing with someone doesn't mean that you hate or fear them, and it is possible to love someone without agreeing with everything they do. You don't have to compromise your beliefs to be compassionate either.

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Kaz Dog

In our country, freedom and the rule of law trumps any religion/religious belief. Even if we were founded by Christian people, they understood - historically - what being persecuted for their beliefs were. Let God, at the pearly gates, be the judge and don't try and think for him. In your home and at your religious building, you have 100% say about your religious beliefs - as long as they do not contravene legislation. Anywhere in public, you must operate "to the law". So if you are operating a business "in public/under the law", buck up. Not asking you to like it, just respect the persecution that has gone before - historically.

Freedom and the rule of law don't go hand in hand.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

BRILLIANT!!!!!

Do it. This is what needs to be done to put a stop to the none sense. If they refuse it will set a precedence for future law suits, it will benefit all Canadians.

Not so brilliant. Any butcher can opt to butcher (or not) whatever they want as part of their business model. Many butchers won't butcher wild game. So what. You gonna sue them? Now if they simply won't butcher a Christians wild game then you have a case. As long as a business is consistent and not singling out one group for select omissions then nothing is amiss. The fact that they choose to cater their business model to their religious beliefs is hardly illegal. Don't see many Christian book stores carrying porn do we? C'est la vie.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

How is disagreeing with someone being a bigot?

Simply disagreeing with someone doesn't mean that you hate or fear them, and it is possible to love someone without agreeing with everything they do. You don't have to compromise your beliefs to be compassionate either.

Thanks Phil...

I don't see how anyone can think that refusing to serve someone based on their sexual preference is in any way tolerant.

In 50 years, people will look back at this and wonder...

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by whammy

Care to expand on that thought?

I think you have bigoted views.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I think you have bigoted views.

Based on what?

[covey ridge]

We are all familiar with the old testament story how God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of their wickedness, which was thought to be homosexuality. Seems like the men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with men who came to their city. I am not convinced that this was the reason why God reigned down hell fire on the city. I think that God destroyed S and G, not because of their homosexuality but because of their in-hospitality and abuse to guests and travellers to their city. In the east caring for travellers and guests was what well brought up people did. I think that religion has twisted this story for their own agenda. S and G was a natural disaster. This was a morale story written against the background of the disaster.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

I actually refused to shoot a wedding back in the early 1990s, as the couple's beliefs went against my moral convictions. I really couldn't stomach the thought of doing it, and of being around more people like them.

I'm horribly conflicted when it comes to things like this. I really do feel that people should be able to decline servicing someone they're not comfortable with (I'd be a hypocrite otherwise), but at the same time I loathe the thought of someone being rejected based on racial, religious, gender, or other protected issues.

The whole thing shorts-out my brain.

This is exactly why I see a need to allow service providers to be permitted to deny some services. But according to the law, and also according to some here, you broke the law, and you should be held accountable.

I just think there should be some protections for everyone. How to do this without violating other's rights is the difficulty.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by whammy

Based on what?

Based on your one sided opinion.

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Not so brilliant. Any butcher can opt to butcher (or not) whatever they want as part of their business model. Many butchers won't butcher wild game. So what. You gonna sue them? Now if they simply won't butcher a Christians wild game then you have a case. As long as a business is consistent and not singling out one group for select omissions then nothing is amiss. The fact that they choose to cater their business model to their religious beliefs is hardly illegal. Don't see many Christian book stores carrying porn do we? C'est la vie.

Uh, that's kind of what has sparked this debate.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by whammy

Based on what?

The definition of the word. The thing is, you can't pick which things are considered bigot worthy, it's all or nothing. You have to accept the good with the bad and the right with the wrong, otherwise whether you like to admit it or not, you're a bigot.

I don't know a single person who, for one reason or another, can be truly not be called a bigot. Nothing personal, it's just the facts.

[Winch101]

This about covers it I think , Hitchens was pro gay in the freedom sense
But not a buddy of the Jesus crowd


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0B-X9LJjs

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by whammy

Thanks Phil...

I don't see how anyone can think that refusing to serve someone based on their sexual preference is in any way tolerant.

In 50 years, people will look back at this and wonder...

But this won't happen until we find a balance between rights for all.

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by whammy

Thanks Phil...

I don't see how anyone can think that refusing to serve someone based on their sexual preference is in any way tolerant.

In 50 years, people will look back at this and wonder...

I think you are missing the point that I'm trying to convey. I'm not condoning refusing service. People need to put away their prejudices against others, and it works both ways. (No pun intended).

[whammy]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Based on your one sided opinion.

I'm not sure how my opinion is any more one-sided than your own.

I find it interesting that people are so adamant about their 'religious right' to refuse service to homosexuals when they don't seem to hold many of the other rules handed down by god to moses to such a high regard. I can only assume that this is because these people are bigoted against homosexuals. Prove me wrong.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

The definition of the word. The thing is, you can't pick which things are considered bigot worthy, it's all or nothing. You have to accept the good with the bad and the right with the wrong, otherwise whether you like to admit it or not, you're a bigot.

I don't know a single person who, for one reason or another, can be truly not be called a bigot. Nothing personal, it's just the facts.

I would never hate someone for being intolerant. I would never deny an intolerant person service.

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by whammy

I'm not sure how my opinion is any more one-sided than your own.

I find it interesting that people are so adamant about their 'religious right' to refuse service to homosexuals when they don't seem to hold many of the other rules handed down by god to moses to such a high regard. I can only assume that this is because these people are bigoted against homosexuals. Prove me wrong.

Never once have I turned a customer away because of their lifestyle or beliefs, doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

Let me ask you a question, if this debate was about Christians being refused service because of their beliefs would you be as upset?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by whammy

I'm not sure how my opinion is any more one-sided than your own.

I find it interesting that people are so adamant about their 'religious right' to refuse service to homosexuals when they don't seem to hold many of the other rules handed down by god to moses to such a high regard. I can only assume that this is because these people are bigoted against homosexuals. Prove me wrong.

For the exact reason Ryry posted. Perhaps I have not been clear enough. I am for the bill passing, but not because I think people should have the right to deny services, but because I think that people have a right to their religious morals over another's demands for services.

Originally Posted by Ryry4

I think you are missing the point that I'm trying to convey. I'm not condoning refusing service. People need to put away their prejudices against others, and it works both ways. (No pun intended).

[Winch101]

If you want to have a rational debate on here QUIT referring to the Bible
Like it's a reliable source of information .....most people on here think it's
A fairy tale to say the least....if that is the basis for your stance you are right in there with the close minded bigots . If everybody who believes the bible is
Anti gay , Muslim , abortion etc.etc. Nice group ,stay away from my kids
I'll take my chances with the pedophiles , and speaking of them , this is where
CS usually throws some priests into the mix ...

Passing that Arizona law leads to witch burning , crucifying etc. Because
You are , as a human , flawed . Ego and control the Bain of your existence .

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by whammy

I'm sure it's quite intolerant, just as the old testament is. I don't think it's right for anyone to hide their bigoted views behind a religious book. It's cowardly.

I think it is the religious books and sometimes the misunderstanding of the stories in the religious books that have spawned the bigoted views.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

Never once have I turned a customer away because of their lifestyle or beliefs, doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

Let me ask you a question, if this debate was about Christians being refused service because of their beliefs would you be as upset?

Sure, I don't think anyone's rights should be infringed upon. I don't think that religious people should pick and choose what they get offended by though.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by whammy

I would never hate someone for being intolerant. I would never deny an intolerant person service.

So? You're only touching the tip of the iceberg when it comes to being a bigot. Read the definition of bigot, and do not insert any self serving conditions to the true definition. You will see you are in fact a bigot.

So before you call the pot black, make sure you realize the kettle is too.