TSE's Response to the Swiss Arms Fiasco

[Scott N]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Tuojj8ef8

Sorry, I'm not sure how to imbed this.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I wonder how long it takes before he cancels his cell phone number he gave out?

LC

[Bergerboy]

90% of the calls will be
"Hello",
"I have a Swiss Arms can I have my money back?".
"No"

The other 9% will be
"Hello"
"What the hell were you thinking?"

The rest will be wrong numbers.

[nelsonob1]

Its an intelligent response to the issue. Smart to apologise and try and rectify the situation. I don't know enough about the truth to the backstory but a good move for him and good move for the broader issues of reclassification.

I believe most firearms owners are suspicious about the RCMP reclassification process and this may well be the right firearm to have that battle over, particular as the originator of the complaint also is fighting the RCMP reclassification.

[Scott N]

I think the blame should be places squarely where it belongs, with the RCMP. Apparently CZ858s manufactured after 2007 were also added the prohib list today. That police force is getting out of control.

[coppercarbide]

Well, considering that there are a number of SA owners, with reasonably deep pockets and intelligence, and that there are a large number of firearms shops putting money behind this, I would tend to agree that 'this is the hill to stand on'.

Swiss Arms, cz858 confirmed... they are coming. I don't own either, but I'm not stupid enough to believe they aren't 'testing the waters'.

If there's no concerted fight against these, you can be assured the Tavor or something similar is next. Then the T97. Then the mini-14's.

If the RCMP believes they can... they will.

[nelsonob1]

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/s...-by-government


Seems like the government is back-pedalling. If the RCMP get a slap for this then a great first step in the reclassification war.

[greylynx]

Don't give up on writhing letters to your members of parliament.

If you are too lazy to write a letter, get your kids who hunt with you to writet he the letter and ypu sign it.

Put your beer down before you send the letter away. You might have one really irritated son or daughter who writes Grey-lynx style letters. You might want them to edit it.

[coreya3212]

" he said there have never been any criminal action reported involving this weapon"

I don't like this as a point of argument. It makes it sound like if there was a crime committed with this firearm, that reclassing it would be the right thing to do. It's playing on words but it will fuel the antis in other arguments.

[greylynx]

It would great to see the documentation that led to this decision.

Names and their approval signatures.

There will no way us "cake eaters" well ever see those documents. Unless they are leaked.......

I doubt an court challenge would help because you can't sue the government, but you can sure work to kick their behinds out in an election.

[mudbug]

Originally Posted by nelsonob1

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/s...-by-government


Seems like the government is back-pedalling. If the RCMP get a slap for this then a great first step in the reclassification war.

They need a bit more than a slap for this

[leeaspell]

Originally Posted by greylynx

It would great to see the documentation that led to this decision.

Names and their approval signatures.

There will no way us "cake eaters" well ever see those documents. Unless they are leaked.......

I doubt an court challenge would help because you can't sue the government, but you can sure work to kick their behinds out in an election.

http://static.globalnews.ca/content/...2012-00068.PDF


Looks like this goes back to 2010. Some stuff is classified, but interesting read none the less

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Don't give up on writhing letters to your members of parliament.

If you are too lazy to write a letter, get your kids who hunt with you to writet he the letter and ypu sign it.

Put your beer down before you send the letter away. You might have one really irritated son or daughter who writes Grey-lynx style letters. You might want them to edit it.

I agree... the Conservatives have been bleeding out support for a long time now and there will never be a better time to tell them that is they want another majority and their leader to have a seat in 2015... they better use the majority they have now to not only stop this... but also to reverse the damage already done.

Tell em to fix the whole Act or prepare to enjoy a trip down memory lane... and less seats than a Toronto taxi cab.

[michaelmicallef]

This may be a dumb question , but does the RCMP act on thier own with regards to reclassification of firearms or is there some liberal influence prompting these things. Maybe someone in that department needs job security and has to flex thier mussel in order to appear like they are doing something. Just can understand how this can happen in a country that's not a dictatorship. Are these decisions made by a committee of just one person? Maybe I will ask these questions to my M.P and report the answers back here. Any other questions we should be asking when we write our MP's with regards to this stuff?

[recce43]

hitler and stalin would be proud of the royal criminal mounted police

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by michaelmicallef

This may be a dumb question , but does the RCMP act on thier own with regards to reclassification of firearms or is there some liberal influence prompting these things. Maybe someone in that department needs job security and has to flex thier mussel in order to appear like they are doing something. Just can understand how this can happen in a country that's not a dictatorship. Are these decisions made by a committee of just one person? Maybe I will ask these questions to my M.P and report the answers back here. Any other questions we should be asking when we write our MP's with regards to this stuff?

I believe the RCMP firearms lab is severely overstaffed if they have the time to pick nits such as this. They should be involved in activities such as forensic work on firearms and ammunition that have actually been involved in criminal investigations; you know, activities involved with actual police work.

I think it was good that JR was forthright in taking ownership of the fact he brought this to the RCMP's attention in the first place, lots of people and most politicians would pu$$yfoot around the issue.

I think that this Swiss Arms fiasco came timed so closely to the CZ 858 reclassification will be the RCMP firearms lab's own undoing. They're forgotten that to achieve their end goal of disarmament that they have to perform these insidious acts in small increments; going about it this way will mobilize the troops and hopefully we'll have their butts hung out to dry once the dust settles. Please, everyone who cares about firearms and fears about what's next on the RCMP firearms lab's hit list write a real letter to your MP expressing your thoughts on the issue.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I believe the RCMP firearms lab is severely overstaffed if they have the time to pick nits such as this. They should be involved in activities such as forensic work on firearms and ammunition that have actually been involved in criminal investigations; you know, activities involved with actual police work.

I think it was good that JR was forthright in taking ownership of the fact he brought this to the RCMP's attention in the first place, lots of people and most politicians would pu$$yfoot around the issue.

I think that this Swiss Arms fiasco came timed so closely to the CZ 858 reclassification will be the RCMP firearms lab's own undoing. They're forgotten that to achieve their end goal of disarmament that they have to perform these insidious acts in small increments; going about it this way will mobilize the troops and hopefully we'll have their butts hung out to dry once the dust settles. Please, everyone who cares about firearms and fears about what's next on the RCMP firearms lab's hit list write a real letter to your MP expressing your thoughts on the issue.

I call it "damage control" on his part. He ratted out a competitor without consideration for future outcome and basically sold out the shooting community. Will he compensate those that purchased Swiss Arms from him? that would be the first step in proving his good intentions. Should he choose not to, then he's painted with the same wide brush as the "pu$$yfooting" politicians. Let's not forget for a single minute that Mr. JR spearheaded this fiasco.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by michaelmicallef

This may be a dumb question , but does the RCMP act on thier own with regards to reclassification of firearms or is there some liberal influence prompting these things.

According to the NFA info on this, the government handed the RCMP this power in 2008. So yes, they can act on their own; and if you don't like it... talk to the CPC!!!! They are the ones doing this to us!

ARG

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

I call it "damage control" on his part. He ratted out a competitor without consideration for future outcome and basically sold out the shooting community. Will he compensate those that purchased Swiss Arms from him?

That is a key point there... not only did he throw other firearms owners under the bus, he threw his customers under the bus. Would you spend a nickle (since pennies don't exist anymore) there? I won't!

ARG

[Mekanik]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Let's not forget for a single minute that Mr. JR spearheaded this fiasco.

Not for a second my friend.

Triage rules: deal with the reclassification issue first.

There'll be a time to deal with mr cox. Preferably with out wallets.

[wally338]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

I call it "damage control" on his part. He ratted out a competitor without consideration for future outcome and basically sold out the shooting community. Will he compensate those that purchased Swiss Arms from him? that would be the first step in proving his good intentions. Should he choose not to, then he's painted with the same wide brush as the "pu$$yfooting" politicians. Let's not forget for a single minute that Mr. JR spearheaded this fiasco.

X2 sorry don't cut it this time.

[gitrdun]

Glad you guys see it likewise. I can think of many terms, rat in mouse's clothing, stool pigeon, informant and so on. Now he speaks of donations to charities, he's going to redirect these so called former donations in a new direction. Sorry dude, you gotta prove it first. I don't own any firearms affected by this fiasco that he's created, but he may very well have put my Browning Auto 5 in jeopardy or your Rem 1100 and opened a Pandora's box. I want to know that he will compensate all of his customers who have purchased the re-classified firearms. And not from him, but from those affected.

[gitrdun]

ARG got suspended, wow that was fast. What the heck happened here?

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

ARG got suspended, wow that was fast. What the heck happened here?

He picked on Pixel in another thread. Mess with the bull !!!

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by super7mag

He picked on Pixel in another thread. Mess with the bull !!!

Right, crappy. Back on topic, I think that any smart forum ought to drop the Shooting Edge from their advertising banner at this time. Recalling when Zumbo spoke against a Remington AR rifle and got dropped like a rotten apple from Outdoor Life. JR apologizes, good. He makes amends, good. I'll believe it when I see it, till then.......black balled. At least, that's how I see it.

[CaberTosser]

We all know JR initiated this event, he's openly said so in the video linked. However, what only he is privy to is what his motivation was in doing so. One can speculate that it was out of spite towards the lads at CSC, which is possible; but it could also be that upon recognizing it in his midst at the trade-in he became worried about compliance and what having the wrong thing in his inventory could mean to his significant investment in his business. We're all well aware of how a firearms paperwork anomaly could affect us as hobbyists, imagine what it would do to a fellows livelihood if such a thing was found in his inventory by the powers that be had he not reported it. That one's a bit of a Catch-22, isn't it lads? Not only would he feel the pinch of a possible closure, but so would all his employees. Most of us as parents teach our kids to report things that don't seem right to us, he was doing this with a receiver that he knew enough about to recognize that it wasn't what it should be. That receiver was already on the no-no list, the snowball effect of the RCMP going way overboard on the matter and reclassifying the whole Swiss Arms family of rifles would be hard to predict as an eventual outcome. I can say this: if I came into possession of something that I found out afterwards could destroy my livelihood and family, I'd get in front of it. If I was at the airport luggage carousel & accidentally picked up a briefcase resembling my own and found 8 kilos of cocaine in it, it would be in the cops hands pretty darned fast.

I'm astute enough to know a few possibilities exist regarding his motivations for starting this investigation, but I won't join the lynching party not knowing just what that was.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

We all know JR initiated this event, he's openly said so in the video linked. However, what only he is privy to is what his motivation was in doing so. One can speculate that it was out of spite towards the lads at CSC, which is possible; but it could also be that upon recognizing it in his midst at the trade-in he became worried about compliance and what having the wrong thing in his inventory could mean to his significant investment in his business. We're all well aware of how a firearms paperwork anomaly could affect us as hobbyists, imagine what it would do to a fellows livelihood if such a thing was found in his inventory by the powers that be had he not reported it. That one's a bit of a Catch-22, isn't it lads? Not only would he feel the pinch of a possible closure, but so would all his employees. Most of us as parents teach our kids to report things that don't seem right to us, he was doing this with a receiver that he knew enough about to recognize that it wasn't what it should be. That receiver was already on the no-no list, the snowball effect of the RCMP going way overboard on the matter and reclassifying the whole Swiss Arms family of rifles would be hard to predict as an eventual outcome. I can say this: if I came into possession of something that I found out afterwards could destroy my livelihood and family, I'd get in front of it. If I was at the airport luggage carousel & accidentally picked up a briefcase resembling my own and found 8 kilos of cocaine in it, it would be in the cops hands pretty darned fast.

I'm astute enough to know a few possibilities exist regarding his motivations for starting this investigation, but I won't join the lynching party not knowing just what that was.

I call Bullshtein on that. Why would he be worried about compliance within his inventory if the paper work clearly established that he was? And, it wasn't his first import in the first place. Your analogy is long winded Caber, and it doesn't represent the case in point. If you are in the firearm importing business, you had better know what the rules are. You relate this to hobbyists, parents and children" WTF, we're talking about a well established shooting and retail outlet here. Nawww, I've smelled a RAT all along. Me thinks Mr. JR got pee'd at the competition and did a dirty. Now, it hits him in the face, he's back peddling, sucking up to the masses. Sorry dude, I ain't buying it.

And further to that, comments on his tube video are disabled, so FU2 JR

[YoteStopper]

The damage is done, and JR isn't getting any praise from me for his "apology", but he does have a sliver of a chance to slow down the spiral by throwing everything he's got at this situation...what is done in the next few days would be fairly critical IMO.

[CaberTosser]

As I understand it, he had bought the one in question from the customer, perhaps either as a trade in or an outright purchase. I might stand to be corrected on that detail though; was it bought by him personally or by one of his managers, and then later recognized by him? I guess him and the seller "Brobee" would know. I've not checked this on CGN yet, but I'm sure its got to be 1185 pages deep by now. I'm just a bit reluctant to hang a fellow, as I experienced some unpleasant accusations thrown my way that had people backtracking out of them shortly afterwards when the truth became known. Then again, there are also times where I deserved what I got, and I had effed up.

I'm not saying either scenario is right, because I don't know. I'm just posing some plausible explanations for the sake of balance.

As for his locking the YouTube comments: leaving his personal email and cell phone # there did allow for pretty easy communication with him.


That being said, with the fact that the RCMP also hit the CZ 858 in the same time frame we can't go putting that on him too. The RC's may have found it themselves anyways because with the CZ ruling they're obviously hunting for more to ban. Why don't we ever see them reclassifying firearms from prohibited to non-restricted? Could it be the RCMP's agenda maybe?.......

[Burglecut83]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

We all know JR initiated this event, he's openly said so in the video linked. However, what only he is privy to is what his motivation was in doing so. One can speculate that it was out of spite towards the lads at CSC, which is possible; but it could also be that upon recognizing it in his midst at the trade-in he became worried about compliance and what having the wrong thing in his inventory could mean to his significant investment in his business. We're all well aware of how a firearms paperwork anomaly could affect us as hobbyists, imagine what it would do to a fellows livelihood if such a thing was found in his inventory by the powers that be had he not reported it. That one's a bit of a Catch-22, isn't it lads? Not only would he feel the pinch of a possible closure, but so would all his employees. Most of us as parents teach our kids to report things that don't seem right to us, he was doing this with a receiver that he knew enough about to recognize that it wasn't what it should be. That receiver was already on the no-no list, the snowball effect of the RCMP going way overboard on the matter and reclassifying the whole Swiss Arms family of rifles would be hard to predict as an eventual outcome. I can say this: if I came into possession of something that I found out afterwards could destroy my livelihood and family, I'd get in front of it. If I was at the airport luggage carousel & accidentally picked up a briefcase resembling my own and found 8 kilos of cocaine in it, it would be in the cops hands pretty darned fast.

I'm astute enough to know a few possibilities exist regarding his motivations for starting this investigation, but I won't join the lynching party not knowing just what that was.

I see it the way you do. Very unfortunate. You could look at it as too bad his competitors had to sell prohibited receivers. Or that the gun laws are stupid. Either way it's a mess and cannot be blamed all on one person.... Critical thinking people