New challenge for next season (buckshot)

[Justin Black]

Every hunting season I try to come up with a new challenge for myself. Once I accomplish one goal I set my sights on another. For several years it was to kill a Deer while hunting on the ground with a longbow. A couple years before that it was take a mature Whitetail Buck while still hunting. My goal for next season is to take a Deer with buckshot.
Unfortunately I can find very little information on hunting Deer with buckshot, and whats more I am new to shotgunning entirely. So I figured I would ask a few questions, some of which will no doubt sound quite stupid to those who are familiar with shotgunning.

1) I currently don't own a shotgun, but was thinking about buying an old Cooey model 84 12 gauge. Reasons I am leaning toward the Cooey are that it was made in Canada (a BIG part of its allure), can be had for very little money, and is of simple operation and should be easy to clean/maintain. So is there any reason this firearm is not suitable for shooting buckshot?
2) I have been told and am aware that buckshot is an extremely close range load, with most people telling me 30 yards or less. Some people have told me that I can increase that range by using a choked barrel. Other people have told me that you cannot shoot buckshot with a choke. What is the truth of this?
3) Since I have never used buckshot I was wondering which load would be best for Whitetails?
4) Some folks tell me that some buckshot loads from different manufacturers will pattern tighter/looser than others, and that I should shoot several to find what shoots best. Others say it doesn't matter as they all pretty much pattern the same. Which statement is true?

As I said above I know buckshot is a close range load. I fully expect to have to get within 30 yards or less to make the shot. I also know that slugs are considered are more accurate and are considered the superior of the two where hunting Deer is concerned. But I am determined to take a Deer with buckshot this fall, and any helpful advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

[Richard B.]

Every shotgun handles loads differently so you will have to try all buckshot loads to see what works best in your gun.

Generally the larger buckshot is preferred for deer and you are very correct about it being a short range load. Very much like your longbow.

Testing buckshot in a single shot is going to be painful so be prepared for that

[Ennyindabenny]

I recently purchased an 84 myself and these guns have fixed full chokes. I did some searching on this topic and most say you can do it but you won't have a good pattern with larger buckshot. I also read that you shouldn't shoot slugs through it. I personally haven't tried buckshot out of this gun yet.

[Big Daddy Badger]

What is the challenge in that?

I'd have thought making a quick clean kill at close range using a single projectile would be a much greater challange.

And what happens if you fail?

Sorry buds... I don't get it.
I don't want to start something here but... it seems like you are missing a pretty fundimental point here.

The one about hunters being obliged to do their level best to make it a good clean and quick death for the animal.

JMHO

[nick0danger]

Pretty sure you can't use buckshot in Alberta to hunt big game.

[densa44]

I'm not sure what size buckshot would be adequate, if its legal, or why you would take a chance at wounding an animal.

Buck shot in an old Cooey would be a very short range proposition. I would think a neck shot might be lethal but I don't know.

Think a bit more about the deer that you are shooting.

[catnthehat]

Buckshot, although legal, is likely the worst choice for deer- even a 410 slug ( which IS illegal)) would be a better choice.
I would suggest a 12 or 20 gauge with slugs if you want to hunt deer with a shotgun.
Cat

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by nick0danger

Pretty sure you can't use buckshot in Alberta to hunt big game.

Where do these ideas come from?

Buckshot is perfectly legal for big game hunting in AB.

Hell the AB govt even published recommended shot sizes when the Scona shotgun ML season began back in the late 80's.

To the OP,
OO or OOO, 3" loads are a nice option ( more payload)
Interchangeable chokes are almost a must, because you can't predict what a load will pattern like, and yes. No two loads may or may not perform the same, so be prepared for some range time, buckshot is notorious for patterning like crap if over choked.
Enjoy flogging those crusher loads out of that single shot shotgun, it may very well give you a flinch you may never get rid of!

[Justin Black]

Thank you for the replies so far folks.
As previous folks have now stated, buckshot is legal for Deer in Alberta, and yes I did check in on that before posting.
And as for the lethality of buckshot on Deer sized game, I don't even know how that can be questioned. It has been used for decades and is still a popular load in the Southern U.S. The only way the use of buckshot on Deer could be considered unethical would be if the shooter were firing it beyond its effective/accurate range, which as I stated in my original post that I would not do. I fully intend to make sure what range the shot patterns best, and to limit myself to shots within that distance.
I do respect my quarry, far more than most hunters I know. Suggesting that I do not just because I want to add a bit of extra challenge to the hunt is ridiculous. You might as well say that anyone carrying a bow afield is being unethical, because centerfire rifles are more effective (and ethical?).

[catnthehat]

I'm not questioning the ethics of using buckshot for sure, but it is a fact that buckshot loses its lethality edge very quickly, and i think you would find that the deer shot with buckshot are shot at very close ranges, that is why i suggested a slug.
I have killed more than few deer with both, and find the buckshot lacking except in VERY close quarters on bear - and even there I prefer a slug.
Cat

[Justin Black]

Thanks for the input catnthehat. I was wondering if you could be more specific about the ranges/results you had when using buckshot for Deer, and whether you used a choke or not?
The main reason I want to try buckshot is because it requires me to get very close. Any personal experiences you could relate would be most welcome.

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by pesky672

What is the challenge in that?

I'd have thought making a quick clean kill at close range using a single projectile would be a much greater challange.

And what happens if you fail?

Sorry buds... I don't get it.
I don't want to start something here but... it seems like you are missing a pretty fundimental point here.

The one about hunters being obliged to do their level best to make it a good clean and quick death for the animal.

JMHO

Right you are Pesky, I don't think it is legal to shoot a deer with buck shot, single projectile only. As stated, suppose you don't get a real good shot and now you have a wounded deer. Maybe only one or two of the shot get into the chest cavity, now ya got a real sick deer that may last a few days. If it is lucky it will die before the coyotes start dining on it. Better give your head a little shake before you do this. Need a good challenge, smear bacon grease all overyourself and go bear huntin' with a knife. That should get the adrenalin flowing.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

Right you are Pesky, I don't think it is legal to shoot a deer with buck shot, single projectile only. As stated, suppose you don't get a real good shot and now you have a wounded deer. Maybe only one or two of the shot get into the chest cavity, now ya got a real sick deer that may last a few days. If it is lucky it will die before the coyotes start dining on it. Better give your head a little shake before you do this. Need a good challenge, smear bacon grease all overyourself and go bear huntin' with a knife. That should get the adrenalin flowing.

Buckshot is in fact legal, Pincherguy, you are reading the regs wrong.

As far as the OP goes, I've shot two deer over the course of my hunting in past years, both with a modified choke - ))buckIIRC.
Both deer were shot at about 30 feet, and both did not die right away, but went for a bit.
I was not impressed.
I have taken three deer between 30 and 75 yards , seen two killed , and have seen many pics of deer killed with shotgun slugs however, one with a martini actioned, full choked Greener trap gun that was taken at about 70 yards with a lung shot , stopping on the far side.
Cat

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Buckshot is in fact legal, Pincherguy, you are reading the regs wrong.

As far as the OP goes, I've shot two deer over the course of my hunting in past years, both with a modified choke - ))buckIIRC.
Both deer were shot at about 30 feet, and both did not die right away, but went for a bit.
I was not impressed.
I have taken three deer between 30 and 75 yards , seen two killed , and have seen many pics of deer killed with shotgun slugs however, one with a martini actioned, full choked Greener trap gun that was taken at about 70 yards with a lung shot , stopping on the far side.
Cat

I am just wondering if buck shot fits in these catagories.
•ammunition of less than .23 calibre,
•ammunition that contains non-expanding bullets,
Lead shot is not allowed, are the buck shot loads .23 calibre and do they expand. My thoughts are no they don't I could be wrong. Just doesn't seem right to me IMHO. I have never had anything to do with buck shot. How many are in one load? What size are they?

[Hilgy]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

Right you are Pesky, I don't think it is legal to shoot a deer with buck shot, single projectile only. As stated, suppose you don't get a real good shot and now you have a wounded deer. Maybe only one or two of the shot get into the chest cavity, now ya got a real sick deer that may last a few days. If it is lucky it will die before the coyotes start dining on it. Better give your head a little shake before you do this. Need a good challenge, smear bacon grease all overyourself and go bear huntin' with a knife. That should get the adrenalin flowing.

I've never understood this attitude? I've killed several dear back home with buck shot. We used to have a doe season that was shot gun only. Set up a good ground blind and put in your time.

What makes a bow and arrow any more affective? A poor shot results in a deer that can last several days.

I work with a group of guys(all from the same part of the world) that lose more game during rifle season than i've ever seen in my life. Its all about shot selection and the amount of effort your willing to put in.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

I am just wondering if buck shot fits in these catagories.
•ammunition of less than .23 calibre,
•ammunition that contains non-expanding bullets,
Lead shot is not allowed, are the buck shot loads .23 calibre and do they expand. My thoughts are no they don't I could be wrong. Just doesn't seem right to me IMHO. I have never had anything to do with buck shot. How many are in one load? What size are they?

Lead is allowed in big game , as are shotguns.
The regs are speaking of .223 or less in the case of a single rifle bullet, not buckshot.
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Hilgy

I've never understood this attitude? I've killed several dear back home with buck shot. We used to have a doe season that was shot gun only. Set up a good ground blind and put in your time.

What makes a bow and arrow any more affective? A poor shot results in a deer that can last several days.

I work with a group of guys(all from the same part of the world) that lose more game during rifle season than i've ever seen in my life. Its all about shot selection and the amount of effort your willing to put in.

My deer were shot in the lungs .
I won't use the stuff again.
A lung shot with an arrow is totally fatal as it penetrates better and bleeds the animal better.
Nobody mentioned marginal shots BTW.....
Cat

[Justin Black]

Thank you for the details catnthehat. One more question though. Where was the shot placement on the two Deer?
Ah I see you already gave that information. Thanks.

[petew]

Justin, I admire your willingness to want to get close, and put more hunt into the hunting, however I would not go for the buckshot.
There are other ways to addd the chalenge with better chances of good results.
How about building yourself a "selfbow", wood arrows,and Flint broadheads? or going with a traditional style Flintlock ?
Buckshot was comon where I grew up and there were far to many deer being lost to it.
Pete

[Dick284]

Buckshot is legal in Alberta for big game hunting!

The .23 cal rule is for rifles!
And no one in their right mind is likely to use any thing smaller than OO buck on big game anyways, that's .33 cal anyways.

As for expanding ammo give your mellon a good hard shake because plain lead round balls in front stuffers is totally legal.

As for the rule about more than I bullet with a single pressure of a trigger, that's about full autos?!?!?!

Too bad some of you experts haven't been out of the computer room long enough to lived a few different hunts, with a few different weapons.


Keep the range close OP, pattern your load and have a good hunt, don't let the folks who would sooner spend the day picking fly chit out of pepper dissuade ya.

[Mr Hawken]

Never used a shotgun on any animal but have shot 12g slugs and buckshot and both were in my dad cooey and they do kick like a mule.Have you ever thought of a traditional muzzleloader? I use a flintlock and find it very challenging.My range is very close and i use only roundballs

[canoes]

Since reading a thread that catnthehat had commented about reloading brass shot shells, I have become fasinated with all things shot gun. THere is just 100's of you tube video's on just about every topic from A to Z

This one is extremely detailed on 00 buckshot into balistics gel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbFLY9OIqPA

I found one called pumpkin balls, a .715 round ball loaded in a 3 inch shell.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Pum...tinfo/7000004/

The .410 taurus judge is so popular for self defense people load 3 .395 stacked in a shell.

I wish I lived closer to cat,, he would be cool to sit chat and ask questions.

Larry

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Buckshot is legal in Alberta for big game hunting!

The .23 cal rule is for rifles!
And no one in their right mind is likely to use any thing smaller than OO buck on big game anyways, that's .33 cal anyways.

As for expanding ammo give your mellon a good hard shake because plain lead round balls in front stuffers is totally legal.

As for the rule about more than I bullet with a single pressure of a trigger, that's about full autos?!?!?!

Too bad some of you experts haven't been out of the computer room long enough to lived a few different hunts, with a few different weapons.


Keep the range close OP, pattern your load and have a good hunt, don't let the folks who would sooner spend the day picking fly chit out of pepper dissuade ya.

Thanks a lot DICKnow I know. Too bad we all aren't an expert like you. Keep up the fair work.

[TangoKilo]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Buckshot is legal in Alberta for big game hunting!

The .23 cal rule is for rifles!
And no one in their right mind is likely to use any thing smaller than OO buck on big game anyways, that's .33 cal anyways.

As for expanding ammo give your mellon a good hard shake because plain lead round balls in front stuffers is totally legal.

As for the rule about more than I bullet with a single pressure of a trigger, that's about full autos?!?!?!

Too bad some of you experts haven't been out of the computer room long enough to lived a few different hunts, with a few different weapons.


Keep the range close OP, pattern your load and have a good hunt, don't let the folks who would sooner spend the day picking fly chit out of pepper dissuade ya.

X10!!!

OP Go out and experience it for yourself!!

[Nait Hadya]

go for it ! far be it for me or anyone else to dicktate any of your 47 different ways of hunting.

i have shot most 2.75" and 3",the 3.5" with additional pellets should be devastating on any deer size game. heck, if they were close enough i would use it on elk and moose! can't imagine getting shot simultaneously with 15-18, 30 cal rounds, no automatic can match that performance.

pattern check and try different chokes. thinking a semi with a full lenght barrel and a buckshot choke would be awesome!

[jungleboy]

To the OP. Have you considered casting your own slugs and taking a Deer that way? I would think they are more effective and you would still need to be pretty close.( 50 to 60 yds) You get the satisfaction of taking a deer with a mostly home brewed ammo without the increased risk of losing a wounded animal because of poor patterns or penetration from buckshot. I am not trying to discourage you from your idea just suggesting an alternative that may give the same satisfaction.

[Hunter Trav]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

Maybe only one or two of the shot get into the chest cavity, now ya got a real sick deer that may last a few days.

I'm thinking if 1 or 2 shot make it into the chest cavity, your gonna have a dead deer. Buckshot is pretty big stuff your know...

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Hunter Trav

I'm thinking if 1 or 2 shot make it into the chest cavity, your gonna have a dead deer. Buckshot is pretty big stuff your know...

The two I had were lung shot and took off like scalded cats- one went 100 yards in the bush with three in his lungs.
Like I said, I've killed two with 00buck and won't try it again.
In retrospect he deer I shot with the .45 round ball piled up in a few feet, and all the deer I have shot or seen shot went down very quickly as well.

I'm not saying don't use it, I am saying from my experiences with black powder and shotguns , I won't use buckshot anymore.

Cat

[duffy4]

When I first saw this thread I was going to mention an article I had seen where the author had done some testing with buck shot and found its range and effectiveness very limited. In his conclusion he recommended against its use in many situations (following a wounded leopard was one of them as I recall)

However if the op is going to find out the limitations and stay within them and wants that challenge, I can see that.

It is good to seek out the experience of others on here (and ignore the negative nonsense.) And in the end you will have to do a fair bit of work at the range to find how different loads shoot through your gun. Good luck to you.

[Justin Black]

Thanks again everyone for the replies and advice.
I'll keep an eye open for a suitable shotgun (preferably the Cooey), and I'll research what brands/types of shot are available and recommended.
If the shotgun and loads don't produce a pattern I am comfortable hunting with, then of course I won't use it. And as far as shot placement goes, it sounds like neck shots are the best option, and I will choose a load/pattern with that in mind.
Really looking forward to walking through the woods wearing a plaid coat, carrying a Canadian made shotgun, with a few #6s in one pocket for the Rabbits and Grouse and some buckshot for a Buck.