Elk Bullets

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by hansol

Right there with you. ELDM.

Yup. Be prepared for miserable bullet failure on close range shots.

[Ray Ray]

150 gr TTsx out of 7mm rem mag .

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray

150 gr TTsx out of 7mm rem mag .

That's a very good choice in fact an excellent choice ,the ELDM there's a bullet I tested and it's a no go for this guy.

One bullet I never used or just seen out is the Sierra Tipped Game Changer .Anyone try these or use them . Not the TMK .

I'm going to test them out this summer, very little info .One guy has a video shooting a 140 grain out a 270,looked oka . BUt????

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The dual core lock ring Grand Slam bullets are a thing of the past. The newer made Grand Slam’s are a nothing more than a slightly heavier jacket hot core bullet with a blunted tip.

Yes the original Grand Slams were deadly, much like a partition. They didn’t have great legs though, but who the heck is shooting all these critters past 300, that’s a He11 of a long shot on game. I like ringing steel as far as I can see it but for most mere mortals 300 in a hunting situation is a long poke, that’s another thread though.

I like my TTSX’s and I’ll add I took a couple bull elk and moose with 270 win and 140g TSX’s clocking a mere 2880. Softball size shoulder exit on the one elk and zero tracking on all of them. The original x’s sucked balls though

[Pathfinder76]

There are a bunch of people on this forum that were not even born when the original x’s left the building. I for one am glad we had them. They led to what Barnes offers now and literally revolutionized the mono metal bullet.

[Rio56]

as much as this hurts , lol ,
I agree that boolits have brought us a long way ..
One I miss alot is the Barnes MRX ... I atually talked to them and it was the expense of making it that killed the production .. I have some in the win 308 and they do travel at 2800 with a 165 grain
So i have used mono's and ya they are a game changer

[hansol]

Define "failure".

Does it cause catastrophic damage and kill critters immediately? DRT?

Because that's been my experience, along with other people in my bubble having similar experiences. And I don't see that as a failure.

No nifty 4-petal expanded trinket to recover though.

Originally Posted by brewster29

Yup. Be prepared for miserable bullet failure on close range shots.

[Outcast]

Originally Posted by brewster29

Yup. Be prepared for miserable bullet failure on close range shots.

You’ve shot lots of animals with eldm’s?

[Pathfinder76]

The bottom line is if you shoot premium hunting bullets into game they will come out in bigger pieces than if you use match bullets. I’ve done both enough to know that this will be the case more often than it isn’t.

[obsessed1]

This year I am very interested in trying the 200 gr eldx on elk out of the 30-06. Mv is 2450fps. Traditionally i shoot hard cast 405s in the 45-70 with tremendous success but i have some new areas that I wish to hunt that could offer up to 350 maybe even 400 yd opportunities. Currently 120yds is a long poke where I hunt elk. Ultimately I am a big bullet going modest vel on elk and would love a 9.3, 338, 375 etc but this year will have to stick with what i got... most of the elk I shoot are under 60 yds so im interested how this heavy bullet driven fairly slow will behave.. set up with mpbr this combo is hold on hide to 350yds...well hold on spine at 350.... i have some leg bones and shoulders from last years bull so im planning to test them at closer range on the big bones.. will be interesting anyways.. I hope a 9.3x62 is in the cards down the road lol....

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by Outcast

You’ve shot lots of animals with eldm’s?

Not a one. I have seen how ELD-X blow up on close range shots and a match bullet is typically even more fragile. I am closing in on 40 bull elk kills myself and have assists on probably another 40 with family and friends. In every case I follow bullet path and damage during the skinning/ dressing phase. I have seen what works and what hasn’t - and I won’t use ANY conventional cup and core bullet anymore for bull elk. I have seen 200 grain Win power point bullets from a 338 WM completely fragment and not get into the rib cage after passing through the meaty back edge of a bull’s shoulder. The cost of premium bullets is peanuts compared to the cost of the rest of the hunt. Where I am we often call them close in brush, alders, and slides and need to be able to anchor the bull quickly, from nearly any angle, or risk not getting a shot- or worse yet losing the animal. We aren’t shooting them in open crop fields where you can wait for a perfect broadside shot.

As the late great Bob Hagel said (and I paraphrase) use the bullet that works not in ideal conditions, but in the worst. His books should be must reads for elk hunters.

I had several cases of inadequate penetration and/or jacket separation shrapnel wounding at the start of my elk hunting career and began using NP bullets, then Accubond. Now I have pretty much converted to TTSX or LRX. In fact, I won’t use cup and core bullets on antlered game of any kind anymore.

Now where was that thread about not arguing on the internet? Perhaps I should have heeded my own post. If I can help prevent an inexperienced hunter from even one lost animal I have done what I set out to. I’m out.

[Rio56]

brewster29
You've seen and had a lot of elk kills , nice

where would you place the terminal ascent and partition now in comparison to
the TTSX..
also what bullet weight's have been good to you

[hansol]

What do you mean "come out in bigger pieces"? You mean the recovered bullet? Why is that beneficial? How do "retained bigger pieces" kill better?

Bullets kill by damaging tissue. It would make sense to use projectiles that maximize tissue damage, no?(within practical limits, of course.)

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

The bottom line is if you shoot premium hunting bullets into game they will come out in bigger pieces than if you use match bullets. I’ve done both enough to know that this will be the case more often than it isn’t.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by hansol

What do you mean "come out in bigger pieces"? You mean the recovered bullet? Why is that beneficial? How do "retained bigger pieces" kill better?

Bullets kill by damaging tissue. It would make sense to use projectiles that maximize tissue damage (within practical limits, of course.)

Yes, the weight and composition of the recovered bullet.

I said nothing about either being beneficial. I said nothing about either killing better. But what I said is absolutely reality. You choose which you prefer.

[Smokinyotes]

I shot a mule buck 8years ago with a 200 gr ELDX out of my 300 wm. I found the bullet in 3 pieces and if I remember the biggest piece was 60 something grains. The shot was 760 yards

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by Rio56

brewster29
You've seen and had a lot of elk kills , nice

where would you place the terminal ascent and partition now in comparison to
the TTSX..
also what bullet weight's have been good to you

I have not been able to locate component Terminal Ascent bullets to load but the design appears to be excellent and their predecessors have a great reputation. I always had excellent penetration with Partitions and the usual 2/3 weight retention on the ones I recovered. I have only recovered two LRX bullets since switching to Barnes, and both are exactly as advertised- mushroomed perfectly, great penetration and the usual 98-99% weight retention.

NP’s used were 6mm 100’s, 7mm 160’s and 338 cal 250’s. I mainly shoot the 145LRX from my 280 now. This fall I will be using 175 LRAB from the new 7 PRC stick.

[eric2381]

I’ve switched my kids and mine hunting rifles all to Barnes Ttsx for all hunting and the performance has been perfect. Lighter than “normal” TTSX to increase the velocity and the bullet performance, penetration and killing power and accuracy has been great.

[Rio56]

brewster29

nice
my last elk were taken with the 155 terminal ascent (and trophy bond tip ) and the old 7rm PT.. can't complain.. but lead was left , although small amounts .. The best kill recent was the 155 terminal out of a 280AI at 2980 .. flop drop ..I see you like the 280 too ... Had DRT with the 308 165 MRX too ... again miss that boolit

Also very much agree with you about the terrain on a elk hunt and the need to drop it there ... some of us don't have the luxury of seeing them run for 1/2 mile across n open field . makes bullet choice critical

[buckman]

Nosler partitions 150 grain and up.recommend to have a minimum of 1600 + ft lbs of energy down range. Don't attempt to kill an elk with a frangible bullet

[hansol]

I misunderstood then. In which case we agree: Bonded bullets make nice trinkets.

But I hunt to get meat for the freezer. Maximizing temporary and permanent wound cavities helps with this.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Yes, the weight and composition of the recovered bullet.

I said nothing about either being beneficial. I said nothing about either killing better. But what I said is absolutely reality. You choose which you prefer.

[Outcast]

Originally Posted by brewster29

Not a one. I have seen how ELD-X blow up on close range shots and a match bullet is typically even more fragile. I am closing in on 40 bull elk kills myself and have assists on probably another 40 with family and friends. In every case I follow bullet path and damage during the skinning/ dressing phase. I have seen what works and what hasn’t - and I won’t use ANY conventional cup and core bullet anymore for bull elk. I have seen 200 grain Win power point bullets from a 338 WM completely fragment and not get into the rib cage after passing through the meaty back edge of a bull’s shoulder. The cost of premium bullets is peanuts compared to the cost of the rest of the hunt. Where I am we often call them close in brush, alders, and slides and need to be able to anchor the bull quickly, from nearly any angle, or risk not getting a shot- or worse yet losing the animal. We aren’t shooting them in open crop fields where you can wait for a perfect broadside shot.

As the late great Bob Hagel said (and I paraphrase) use the bullet that works not in ideal conditions, but in the worst. His books should be must reads for elk hunters.

I had several cases of inadequate penetration and/or jacket separation shrapnel wounding at the start of my elk hunting career and began using NP bullets, then Accubond. Now I have pretty much converted to TTSX or LRX. In fact, I won’t use cup and core bullets on antlered game of any kind anymore.

Now where was that thread about not arguing on the internet? Perhaps I should have heeded my own post. If I can help prevent an inexperienced hunter from even one lost animal I have done what I set out to. I’m out.

When you say blow up, you are saying what? The bullet failed to penetrate the vitals and kill? I agree that they will be more violent in expansion but not fail to do the job. Gives me a lot more range with minimal expansion velocities required with cartridges that are easy on the shoulder.
I’ve been hunting elk a lot of years and have subscribed in the past to magnums and premiums. There was a 10 year span in there where I thought I needed my 338 to do this right. Nosler partitions, accubonds and ttsx. All killed elk but the last 5 years or so I’ve gone back to lighter cartridges right down to the 243 and guess what, they die the same.

Whatever makes you confident out there is important but I can’t subscribe to the fudd lore anymore given what I’ve seen and have been shown by others in ghe last few years.

[hansol]

For what it's worth, you'll generally want to keep your bullet velocity over 1800fps for this to work well.

"Bullets, not headstamps, blah blah blah" etc being what it is, ELDX, ELDM, TMK, etc have an optimum velocity window. Keep your projectile in that window, and you'll be good to go. Your 30-06 will work splendidly for this job.

Also, for what it's worth, MPBR, "Holding hide", whatever, generally always comes up short against dialing when you're shooting long range. Yes, 350m is a long shot, especially when you've just climbed a coulee, and the adrenaline is flowing.

Originally Posted by obsessed1

This year I am very interested in trying the 200 gr eldx on elk out of the 30-06. Mv is 2450fps. Traditionally i shoot hard cast 405s in the 45-70 with tremendous success but i have some new areas that I wish to hunt that could offer up to 350 maybe even 400 yd opportunities. Currently 120yds is a long poke where I hunt elk. Ultimately I am a big bullet going modest vel on elk and would love a 9.3, 338, 375 etc but this year will have to stick with what i got... most of the elk I shoot are under 60 yds so im interested how this heavy bullet driven fairly slow will behave.. set up with mpbr this combo is hold on hide to 350yds...well hold on spine at 350.... i have some leg bones and shoulders from last years bull so im planning to test them at closer range on the big bones.. will be interesting anyways.. I hope a 9.3x62 is in the cards down the road lol....

[hansol]

Standby for "Elk shoulders are like armour" and "Magnums give me a better margin for error" ...

Originally Posted by Outcast

When you say blow up, you are saying what? The bullet failed to penetrate the vitals and kill? I agree that they will be more violent in expansion but not fail to do the job. Gives me a lot more range with minimal expansion velocities required with cartridges that are easy on the shoulder.
I’ve been hunting elk a lot of years and have subscribed in the past to magnums and premiums. There was a 10 year span in there where I thought I needed my 338 to do this right. Nosler partitions, accubonds and ttsx. All killed elk but the last 5 years or so I’ve gone back to lighter cartridges right down to the 243 and guess what, they die the same.

Whatever makes you confident out there is important but I can’t subscribe to the fudd lore anymore given what I’ve seen and have been shown by others in ghe last few years.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by hansol

Standby for "Elk shoulders are like armour" and "Magnums give me a better margin for error" ...

Hansol, we know what kills elk. Many of us know how big an elk is, and we also know that a big bull is not the same animal in any way as a cow. I’ll also say that there are areas of this province that produce bulls that are bigger in body size than others. You are welcome to use what you like. But so am I. Along with anyone else here.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by hansol

For what it's worth, you'll generally want to keep your bullet velocity over 1800fps for this to work well.

"Bullets, not headstamps, blah blah blah" etc being what it is, ELDX, ELDM, TMK, etc have an optimum velocity window. Keep your projectile in that window, and you'll be good to go. Your 30-06 will work splendidly for this job.

Also, for what it's worth, MPBR, "Holding hide", whatever, generally always comes up short against dialing when you're shooting long range. Yes, 350m is a long shot, especially when you've just climbed a coulee, and the adrenaline is flowing.

Thanks for the tips

[JD848]

You guys are darn lucky Sticky Coyote isn't around ,his favorite was a 90 or 95 vmax out of a Grendel ,killed everything that walked or crawled on this plant .He pm'd me once say he hit a large bull elk at the base of horns and skull a knocked him out cold ,that there is power.

After reading some stuff here I'm starting to believe old Stinky wasn't alone . He argued over the 6'5 Creedmoor for 6 months then fell in love with a Grendel. My how the heart flutters over a great cartridge .


All just in fun guys , some guys here have been at this for 50 years plus so 5 shooters on this forum have 250 years of experience ,you can tell us your favorite pill of the day ,but were sticking with 2.5 centuries of what we know .

Lmao ,
Cheers
JD

[freeride]

200gr ELD-X in a 300WSM

harvested elk from 70 - 450 yards with this. Bullets held up fine, elk did not. Have got a few other animals with this set up too, but this was about elk.

Maybe I have just got lucky with all the different boxes of bullets of 200gr ELD-X I have bought or maybe its because that bullet shoots well from my rifle and I practice lots with it.

Its fun to discuss what bullet will do the best on an elk, but the reality is find a bullet that is made for hunting and not target shooting that groups well in your gun, put it where it counts and you will have an elk. Different bullet design from fragmenting Berger VLD to a petal forming TSX, put them in the vitals, one may pass through, one may blow up inside, but guess what... the elk wont know the difference.

[Outcast]

Experience is invaluable. I don’t have 50 years experience but getting very close to 40. I’ve taken and been part of more than a “few” elk. I started with a 270 when I was 14. Killed elk with that rifle and non “premium” 140 gr hornady btsp’s. Those bullets killed fast but I spent my off season reading Outdoor life and the like where Jim Carmichael, Craig boddington and others told us about Magnums, kinetic energy and knockdown power and how tough these flesh and bone elk were. I drank the koolaid for years. 30-06, 300 Rum, 300 win mag, 338. I killed 10plus bulls with the 338. Partitions, Barnes you know the premium stuff.

Then I went back to a 270. Died the same. If not faster. Hmm. 7mm-08 same deal. 243 with a 95 ballistic tip. You can’t do that people say. Died the same. 6.5 with 147 eldm’s. 3 elk with that combo. No drama.

The big guns work fine but I’ll take the lighter recoil and all of the other benefits that go along with it. .
No one is arguing about the killing ability of the big magnums and premiums but the question is if it is really needed anymore.

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by Outcast

Experience is invaluable. I don’t have 50 years experience but getting very close to 40. I’ve taken and been part of more than a “few” elk. I started with a 270 when I was 14. Killed elk with that rifle and non “premium” 140 gr hornady btsp’s. Those bullets killed fast but I spent my off season reading Outdoor life and the like where Jim Carmichael, Craig boddington and others told us about Magnums, kinetic energy and knockdown power and how tough these flesh and bone elk were. I drank the koolaid for years. 30-06, 300 Rum, 300 win mag, 338. I killed 10plus bulls with the 338. Partitions, Barnes you know the premium stuff.

Then I went back to a 270. Died the same. If not faster. Hmm. 7mm-08 same deal. 243 with a 95 ballistic tip. You can’t do that people say. Died the same. 6.5 with 147 eldm’s. 3 elk with that combo. No drama.

The big guns work fine but I’ll take the lighter recoil and all of the other benefits that go along with it. .
No one is arguing about the killing ability of the big magnums and premiums but the question is if it is really needed anymore.

the smaller cal's and bullet weights are never gonna replace the same performance in a faster larger cal. it's impossible ... a 300wsm can shoot a TTSX too
Recoil is diff , but nowadays there's options to change that
The race to the bottom is a fad

dream all u want

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Rio56

the smaller cal's and bullet weights are never gonna replace the same performance in a faster larger cal. it's impossible ... a 300wsm can shoot a TTSX too
Recoil is diff , but nowadays there's options to change that
The race to the bottom is a fad

dream all u want

It's not a fad, people have been killing elk cleanly for many years before the internet or monometal bullets .
Cat