Transporting/carrying guns and police search/inspection powers

[Tactical Lever]

Can't seem to find it anywhere; but I'm curious on what the actual power of police/conservation/RCMP are regarding search. I am fairly sure, but not positive that during a routine stop, that there is no power to ask to see the PAL, or see/inspect guns uncased or not. And curious whether it matters if the gun is cased or not, so that it can be plainly seen, or if the presence of a case, whether a soft case, hard case or boot or scabbard on a bike or quad is enough to give reason to "inspect"?
If the gun is plain to see, either on seat, bars of machine, or slung, would that change things?

Also curious on laws/penalties on transporting a loaded rifle. I ask, as when doing outside work, cutting trail, shed hunting, foraging a person might be on an off a machine 10 times in an hour. A prudent person might be tempted to keep the gun loaded in areas of heavy predator activity. And I don't recall seeing it, but besides a wilderness ATC, is there some provision to allow for loaded transport? Not very hopeful on that, but I think that it should be a consideration as a couple people have been killed by wildlife around the area.

[ghostguy6]

If you are transporting a firearm they have the ability to inspect it to ensure it is indeed in compliance with the transport laws (unloaded and trigger lock if required). If you admit you have a firearm then they have the power to ask to see your PAL as it is a legal requirement. If you are hunting then a CO has the right to inspect your firearm to ensure compliance with caliber and ammo capacity requirements. As they are classified as Peace Officers according to the criminal code they have the power to verify the PAL although I have never seen a CO ask to see a PAL. At a checkpoint they asked me about what firearm I used, they verified the shotgun was limited to 2 rounds in the mag then passed me along to an RCMP officer who checked the PAL.

If your firearm is in plain site they have the authority to remove if from you as a measure of officer safety.

The only time I know you can refuse an inspection is if you have less than 10 firearms in your home, in which case they must arrange a mutually convenient time unless they have a warrant.

[honda610]

Section 104 (1) a,b specifically relates to a dwelling or house. They must have a Warrant or give reasonable notice to inspect unless a business is being conducted at the said residents. The 10 gun law comes up lots but is over ruled by section 104.

[Dubious]

If they see your rifle case they always call that plain sight and use it to search the vehicle.

[32-40win]

If you really want to, non-restricted only, you can still have it in a window rack, unless you leave the vehicle and are not in attendance of it, in which case it needs to be out of sight, no lock necessary. Has to be unloaded, no ammo in the gun. Maybe not attached in a stock sleeve ammo holder either, although that one I might want to recheck for sure, forget the exact wording.

ATT's have changed since C71 passed, but non-restricted hasn't;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_ZhCDnhIo&t=339s

[Redneck 7]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

If you really want to, non-restricted only, you can still have it in a window rack, unless you leave the vehicle and are not in attendance of it, in which case it needs to be out of sight, no lock necessary. Has to be unloaded, no ammo in the gun. Maybe not attached in a stock sleeve ammo holder either, although that one I might want to recheck for sure, forget the exact wording.

ATT's have changed since C71 passed, but non-restricted hasn't;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_ZhCDnhIo&t=339s

I’ve double checked that with an RCMP. If you have an ammo holder on your stock. It’s legal to have ammo in it, as long as the gun isn’t loaded.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by ghostguy6

If you are transporting a firearm they have the ability to inspect it to ensure it is indeed in compliance with the transport laws (unloaded and trigger lock if required). If you admit you have a firearm then they have the power to ask to see your PAL as it is a legal requirement. If you are hunting then a CO has the right to inspect your firearm to ensure compliance with caliber and ammo capacity requirements. As they are classified as Peace Officers according to the criminal code they have the power to verify the PAL although I have never seen a CO ask to see a PAL. At a checkpoint they asked me about what firearm I used, they verified the shotgun was limited to 2 rounds in the mag then passed me along to an RCMP officer who checked the PAL.

If your firearm is in plain site they have the authority to remove if from you as a measure of officer safety.

The only time I know you can refuse an inspection is if you have less than 10 firearms in your home, in which case they must arrange a mutually convenient time unless they have a warrant.

If you have less than 10 restricted or prohibs, you have no obligation to let them inspect. If you have 10 or more, then you need to agree and find a time convenient for you. (IIRC)

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

If you really want to, non-restricted only, you can still have it in a window rack, unless you leave the vehicle and are not in attendance of it, in which case it needs to be out of sight, no lock necessary. Has to be unloaded, no ammo in the gun. Maybe not attached in a stock sleeve ammo holder either, although that one I might want to recheck for sure, forget the exact wording.

ATT's have changed since C71 passed, but non-restricted hasn't;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_ZhCDnhIo&t=339s

Originally Posted by Redneck 7

I’ve double checked that with an RCMP. If you have an ammo holder on your stock. It’s legal to have ammo in it, as long as the gun isn’t loaded.

Thanks guys, I am aware that I can transport in such a way with a sleeve and ammo attached.

As a side note, I have found that RCMP are not the most reliable source of information.

My question was more concerning whether LE officers can inspect and snoop around if I do display openly, or if merely seeing a gun shaped case can trigger that.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Thanks guys, I am aware that My question was more concerning whether LE officers can inspect and snoop around if I do display openly, or if merely seeing a gun shaped case can trigger that.

I would say both, they call it plain sight. Google it I have had my truck pulled apart for both open carry and a rifle case in the open. Both times the officer stated it was in plain sight. Now I carry my rifles encased under the rear seat out of sight. However if someone was to get out of the back of the truck or goes to get tags and they see the cases guess what... plain sight and it’s search time.

[honda610]

I would remind the officer a firearm is not a reason to search my vehicle. I would immediately start recording and not give consent. I would happily prove its empty and show my pal. Other than that it's illegal to search your vehicle. I have had issue with rcmp before just once. I advised them to call fish and wildlife and or there superior to confirm. They didnt like that....most times was theres my pal have a good day.

[coachman]

I keep an empty case in plain sight on a couple of my vehicles, and have never been asked if anyone can look inside They can check it all they want, after a few checks when its empty then they have no right to expect it to have a gun in it. It does make a few people mad but they can get over it. Put a fishing rod in a case and pack it every place you go. If more people did this then there would be less people upset when they seen a gun case

[Roamer]

Penalty for loaded firearm in a vehicle is (was 16 years ago) $115 fine, no criminal charges.... found out from a friend.... reason it was loaded in the vehicle: shooting gophers, haha

[tikka250]

Have been searched twice for "in plain sight" the first time they leaned my rifles up against the tire where they all fell onto the concrete and the second time the officer (without asking or stating what he was doing) reached through my pasenger window to unlock the car and then reach past my pasenger to grab a rifle in the backseat. Where he proceeded to bump my mint condition Brazilian Mauser up against the door frame.
I don't know the law or not but I sure know they will go into your vehicle without asking consent of they see a firearm unloaded or not.

[58thecat]

When pulled over or just a routine check I just follow directions, got nothing to hide and let them have a looksie....no worries...just chat with'em on their day etc...all is good.....only had one long conversation on transporting a muzzleloader back home all locked up and encased etc....half loaded meaning yes there was a charge of powder and a bullet seated on top but no cap on the nipple....after a conversation and gun put on the hood he went back to the car for a radio chat etc came back and said all is good....educational period we chalked it up as.....or then talked mule deer hunting as he was drawn for them in our area

[honda610]

I have heard of way to many damaged guns for me to let them search my vehicle. I'll show them its empty but they are not searching my vehicle. I have nothing to hide. But that's like saying sure officer search my house cause I have nothing to hide. Sure here is a DNA sample cause Iam a good guy..... all Rcmp should have to take both non and restricted courses so they will now the actual law...
Cops have rules just like us. If not we might as well change the red Serge for brown shirts.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by honda610

I have heard of way to many damaged guns for me to let them search my vehicle. I'll show them its empty but they are not searching my vehicle. I have nothing to hide. But that's like saying sure officer search my house cause I have nothing to hide. Sure here is a DNA sample cause Iam a good guy..... all Rcmp should have to take both non and restricted courses so they will now the actual law...
Cops have rules just like us. If not we might as well change the red Serge for brown shirts.

I don’t think it’s your choice, good luck handleing a firearm infront of the police and not being searched. Even the fish cops make you put it down and move you away from it remove the mag and clear the chamber for officer safety and it’s completely reasonable.

[honda610]

I have passed my firearm out the window to a fish cop. I have also gotten out as I informed the officer to pass the gun out the window it would be pointed at my passenger. So I got out passed the butt to him barrel down showed my pal. No problem. Had a cop ask me to pull the bolt back in front of him as it was sitting on the middle seat. I showed him my mag on the dash no problem. He had no reason to search the rest of my vehicle. Do they have a job to do yes. Verify your firearm is empty and you have a pal. Thats it. Want to search my vehicle get a warrant. I have also had sheriffs ask for my pal without checking the guns. Everyone thinks we have to let them search
Learn your rights. That's why there being taken away....
Some people on here must be dealing with some paranoid cops. We met a fish cop walking out of a field with 5 guys and guns. He didnt ask us to clear them. Asked how the shoot went. Checked our liscences and birds it was 15 min before he asked to check our mags for capacity. Never once got jumpy over the scary guns. Glad I live rural.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by honda610

I have passed my firearm out the window to a fish cop. I have also gotten out as I informed the officer to pass the gun out the window it would be pointed at my passenger. So I got out passed the butt to him barrel down showed my pal. No problem. Had a cop ask me to pull the bolt back in front of him as it was sitting on the middle seat. I showed him my mag on the dash no problem. He had no reason to search the rest of my vehicle. Do they have a job to do yes. Verify your firearm is empty and you have a pal. Thats it. Want to search my vehicle get a warrant. I have also had sheriffs ask for my pal without checking the guns. Everyone thinks we have to let them search
Learn your rights. That's why there being taken away....
Some people on here must be dealing with some paranoid cops. We met a fish cop walking out of a field with 5 guys and guns. He didnt ask us to clear them. Asked how the shoot went. Checked our liscences and birds it was 15 min before he asked to check our mags for capacity. Never once got jumpy over the scary guns. Glad I live rural.

If they have reason to believe there is a firearm in the vehicle, PAL and assuring its transported in compliance is it.

It is unlikely an urban or high crime area cop will let you handle it.

Not all cops are gun people. Be a polite, honest ambassador and it'll likely get you somewhere.

[DLab]

I printed the Transport Regs. off the RCMP website and keep a copy in the vehicle.A old blanket to cover my cased firearms in the vehicle takes care of the "in plain sight" excuse for search.If they ask ,I answer.
Polite and respectful ,but informed.

[Ray Ray]

There is a YOU TUBE video by a Canadian Firearms Lawyer. He outlines this quite clearly. RCMP has no right to a random search for a firearm but a C.O. does. There are exceptions. Best to watch the 20 min video

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by Dubious

I don’t think it’s your choice, good luck handleing a firearm infront of the police and not being searched. Even the fish cops make you put it down and move you away from it remove the mag and clear the chamber for officer safety and it’s completely reasonable.

I can't tell you how many people have unholstered a hand gun to show me it when I ask what they're carrying, or hand me a rifle/shot gun if I ask. Heck I've had people offer to let me shoot their guns when I ask what they're using. All while at work I must add. 9:10 people I encounter at work are carrying some type of firearm. Yes you have to be aware of a firearms presence because you never know who your encountering but just the presence of a fire arm does not automatically mean your getting searched.

There is some common sense that must be involved though. Simply stating hey I have a firearm and asking what they would like you to do with it can go along way. I've had plenty of people tell me they are packing heat when I ask for a fishing licenses or proof of vehicle insurance. A simple heads up can eliminate the potential for a misunderstanding and a tragedy.

[Who Da Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray

There is a YOU TUBE video by a Canadian Firearms Lawyer. He outlines this quite clearly. RCMP has no right to a random search for a firearm but a C.O. does. There are exceptions. Best to watch the 20 min video

Here is the link
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=388558

WDF

[Donkey Oatey]

When in doubt look at the actual legislation.

Under the Wildlife Act of Alberta.

Inspection of weapons, ammunition and projectiles

70(1) If a weapon, ammunition or projectile or any part of it

(a) is in or on a vehicle, aircraft or boat or is being transported on an animal or by a person who is on foot, and

(b) is in plain view of a wildlife officer or wildlife guardian,

the officer or guardian may require the person who is or who appears to be in possession of that weapon or other thing to produce it for the purpose of inspection to determine whether it is there in circumstances constituting a danger to public safety or whether or not it is possessed in accordance with this Act.

(2) When an officer or guardian requires a person to produce anything for inspection under subsection (1), that person shall forthwith produce it to the officer or guardian.

Says nothing of searching a vehicle but you must produce the firearm to the officer or guardian for inspection.

A gun case is not a firearm therefore not in plain view.

[Jayhad]

Runkle Bailey has a great video on it from the eyes of a lawyer
https://youtu.be/5C4f8aW8ssI

[elkhunter11]

I have had F&W officers ask me to open the action to prove that my firearm was not loaded. I have handed a cased firearm to an RCMP officer at a combined F&W/RCMP checkstop. Not once has any officer searched my vehicle , because I had firearms in the vehicle. I have presented licenses to F&W and my PAL to RCMP, but other than verifying the tag and proof of sex/species/class of an animal, that was it.

[roper1]

I have had F&W ask me to show my gun was unloaded out in the hills. I'm not sure they that particular pair knew how to open the bolt.........

[EZM]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

I can't tell you how many people have unholstered a hand gun to show me it when I ask what they're carrying, or hand me a rifle/shot gun if I ask. Heck I've had people offer to let me shoot their guns when I ask what they're using. All while at work I must add. 9:10 people I encounter at work are carrying some type of firearm. Yes you have to be aware of a firearms presence because you never know who your encountering but just the presence of a fire arm does not automatically mean your getting searched.

There is some common sense that must be involved though. Simply stating hey I have a firearm and asking what they would like you to do with it can go along way. I've had plenty of people tell me they are packing heat when I ask for a fishing licenses or proof of vehicle insurance. A simple heads up can eliminate the potential for a misunderstanding and a tragedy.

YUP ........ this is exactly my experience in the US - but I guess depends on where you are.

I lived in Indiana while going to University, and was pulled over for speeding coming back from doing some shooting with some friends. All of the weapons were out of sight and covered.

One of the questions the police always ask is "are there any firearms or weapons in the vehicle" - and when he asked I said "yes sir, I have a pistol a 22 and 12 ga in the vehicle, and they are all unloaded" - "do you want to see them" ....

He looks at me and says - "no, that's fine, you're good" ..........(small pause and he continues) "Why in the world is your pistol unloaded?" - I was surprised at the question and responded " I always unload all my firearms after coming off the range" .... he smiled and said "your pistol ain't going to do you any good unloaded".

LOL - totally different perspective.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray

There is a YOU TUBE video by a Canadian Firearms Lawyer. He outlines this quite clearly. RCMP has no right to a random search for a firearm but a C.O. does. There are exceptions. Best to watch the 20 min video

RCMP are appointment to enforce the same acts as Fish and Wildlife and Conservation Officers in Alberta. So they do just the same. Starts with plainview though.