Beginning in muzzleloading

[SoabChad]

So after spending most of my days off watching Jerimiah Johnson and muzzleloading videos on you-tube (thank you hickok45). I have the inclination to outfit myself with a new hawken muzzleloader before next hunting season. So if anyone has any suggestions on where to start, equipment suggestions and what not I would be greatly appreciative.

[densa44]

I was going to start but could not find cheap ammo just to practice. I think Cat smelts his own.

[catnthehat]

Lots of good used muzzle loaders around
I think we have s sticky here on muzzle loader basics as well .
About the only thing that I stress is for round ball hunting , minimum of .54
I have killed deer and bears with a . 50, before I get the big gun ,but if I had my time back I would have used Billets instead if patched round ball .
I have been shooting s .58 since 1981
Cat

[SoabChad]

Thanks guys. The thread on muzzleloading basics is a good read. Im really hooked on keeping it traditional with a patched round ball, but should I move towards conical or sabots instead or can I find a rifle with the right twist to do both?

Maybe I shoulda put this in the guns and ammo discussion,

[catnthehat]

I am a BIG proponent of patched round balls for accuracy .
Never been a fan of bullets except for muzzle loading match rifles - which I have never owned .

Cat

[petew]

Patched balls are cheap to shoot , and will certainly kill . I don't hesitate to hunt with a 50 Mini or maxi , REAL ,and sometimes a PRB , but most times I find myself with a 54 or 58 cal. and a pocket full or soft lead maxi, Mini, or REAL's.
Just remember a ML is a short range gun , if you want 30-30 ballistics it comes pre loaded in a brass cartridge.

[calgarychef]

I've only shot one animal with prb (.50) and at 60 yards I'm still amazed how much damage that little ball did to the lungs of a very large buck. Improperly placed I'm sure it would be a bad deal but like archery, pick your shot carefully. They are indeed a hoot to shoot and very satisfying to hunt with.

[GSPhunter]

I shoot an inline which isn't quote the same I just love being able to unload without firing it.

Any who, I love it and it's a very addictive form of hunting.

Get into it and you won't regret it!

[fatboyz]

I have a Thompson Centre Hawken percussion in .54 cal. I built it from a kit in the early 80's. If you can find a good used TC they're worth it. Killed lots of deer with round balls and Lee REAL bullets and one moose. I am now also hunting with a traditions 50 cal flintlock. Watch the buy and sell here and the equipment exchange on the Canadian Gunnutz site.

[BPman]

Connect with the Pinch Creek Black Powder Club or the Fort Whoop-up Black Powder Club in Lethbridge for some knowledgeable advice and sources of shooting supplies.
Also suggest you check out the Alberta Black Powder Association website and new Facebook page. Both are under reconstruction so bear with us for a week or two...

[58thecat]

Ahhhh the ol'hawkens rifle, yup Jeremiah Johnson got me thinking about it back in the nineties, bought one, settled on a load of 90 gr pyrodex and seated on top a 325gr hornady Great Plains conicle bullet and never looked back...100 yards and yes it will kill, kept the freezer full for many years.
.50 cal Hawkins was what I settled on for calibre.

[saskbooknut]

TC Hawken or Renegade are a good starting point in traditional style ML rifles.
They both have a standard 1:48 twist as a compromise for patched round balls and conical bullets. Specialized patched round ball only barrels have 1:60 or 1:66 twist rate. Specialized conical bullet barrels have a twist rate around 1:28 to 1:32.
Pretty well all the target shooting at ML clubs is patched round ball only.
You could really use some people to help you get started - initially there is a bit of a learning curve to accurately and reliably shoot ML rifles. Some S. Alberta organizations have already been suggested in previous posts.
With traditional muzzle loaders real Black Powder is the ticket to reliable ignition.
I shot .50 calibre patched round balls for many years while hunting, but have gone to sabot pistol bullets for more reliable kills. I shoot a .50 TC Hawken for hunting. I limit my shots to under 100 yards which seems to work well; we eat venison every year. I also believe that if you are going to use patched round balls hunting, use a bigger one (.54 to .58 calibre) and get the velocity up to do more damage. Not every shot is perfect when hunting, and you want reliable humane kills.
Black powder shooting is an addictive sport. Welcome to the fraternity.

[SoabChad]

Thanks for all the help guys, didn't realize traditional muzzleloaders were this popular around here, all I see at the range are synthetic stocked 700's with 20" heavy barrels (got one already) Definitely gong to check out the pincher and Lethbridge clubs. Sounds like I have some equipment exchange boards to browse through no.
Again thanks for all the help

[Twobucks]

Any advice for what to look for in a used muzzleloader? I love the look and sound of a flintlock but apart from fit, I wouldn't know Stoeger from Perazzi.

[West O'5]

Here's a forum that I learned a ton from when I ventured into the world of BP around 15(?) years ago now?
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php?

Be forewarned they are uber-traditionalists and a lot of reinactment hobbyists,there is no discussion allowed of modern projectiles and propellants,which is fine by me as I have no interest in firing shotgun primed,pyrodex launched pistol bullets from synthetic stocked,scoped modern ML rifles that were created to fit into "primitive weapon" seasons,lol.....but I digress.
Anyway....lots of great info to be absorbed if you're interested in traditional ML hunting/shooting.
I owned an inexpensive .50 cal flinter for awhile and took a cpl deer with PRBs and conical,but I've mostly hunted with a TC Hawken .45 caplock that I picked up for a steal in mint condition and conical bullets,250gr maxis,325gr Buffalo Bullet Co(discontinued ) and more recently modern 225gr Powerbelt,as well as a couple coyotes and small game with .45 PRB.
PRBs are inexpensive and fun for plinking,Wholesale usually has them in my experience.
Caroline Supplies has the best assortment of BP accessories that I've seen in Alberta,better then any of the big box stores,and the only place that I've found real BP(Goex and Elephant brand) aside from Proline in CGY which carries Goex.....I'm sure there's other sources but I work on the road and have visited pretty much every gun shop west of Hwy 2 from CGY to High Level and all points in between and there is precious little for BP and supplies that I've seen.
.50 cal is by far the most popular with the widest selection of ammo in these parts,but again,I have no interest in shooting pistol bullet sabots and the wide selection of bullets and BP substitute pellets are mostly geared towards the inline crowd.
I can't recall ever seeing any lead conicals on shelves anywhere in AB,possibly Caroline(?).....but I've found moulds at Wholsale and BP,you'll either have to order them or make your own generally.....hence why I started shooting the 225 Powerbelts in my .45 and took a nice 5x5 elk @100y broadside with same.
If you're gonna hunt with PRBs which makes sense cuz they are cheap to shoot and get lots of practice and load development with,a .50 is ok but I'd really like a .54 or even .58 as a dedicated PRB hunter.That said,I'd have no issue hunting deer with PRB in my .45,just realise that it has its limitations and approach it from more of close range/bow hunting frame of mind,I'll put my.45 with PRB up against any bow on the planet inside of 75 yards.58s are are a lot less common as budget priced factory offerings though.....in fact most of the common ML makers have moved away from offering traditional flint and cap guns altogether and focus sales on the inline market which is just sad imho.
Starting out I don't think you can go wrong with a TC Hawken or Lyman GPR with 1:48 twist,they are both very common,good quality,do it all rifles with the compromise twist that will allow you to shoot balls or bullets to match your game or just have fun plinking.Theres lots of other rifle brands out there also if you watch the for sale forums but again,many mfrs have dropped traditional MLs from their lineups altogether these days as most hunters are less interested in the traditional aspect and only into ML hunting for the additional opportunities which is a shame as far as I'm concerned.

[petew]

When you are shopping the main concern in used is the bore condition. If it is pitted or frosted , don't buy it .Look close for a bulged barrel too. Slide your hand up and down the outside of the barrel to try and feel any bulge. Run a patch down the barrel slowly and try to feel and pitted areas or bulged areas.
If the patch hangs up or drags and it feels rough it is pitted , if you find a spot where it moves very easy then goes back to th resistance the rest of the barrel has it has a bulge .
TC is a good brand, Lyman is also good. The Lymans are made by Investarm in Italy. Often we see Investarm rifles marked as Churchill, Cabellas ,
Safari Arms and many other brands. They are good guns, and often cheaper to buy than Lyman branded rifle. Real Black powder is the way to go for reliable ignition, Cabela's also stocks Real Black.
If you go flint, my favorite, use real knapped flints, anf don't bother with the saw cut ones. .
The Investarm guns are stamped with a capitol I in a square box on the barrel . Pedersoli is also a very good shooting rifle.

Real black powder is easy to clean up , just use hot water , then oil the bore to protcctm it from rusting .

[Flieguy]

patched round ball are very cheap when you consider that you can only shoot one or two per minute, and also easier than you'd think to smelt your own.

I've got a percussion Thompson Center New englander I could sell you but it's currently at my parents' place and I won't be going that way for a couple months.

my first smokepole was a CVA kit rifle that I bought 3 or 4 years ago, I think I paid $100. It's addictive. Marstar has some VERY nice pedersoli muzzle loaders of various descriptions

[canross]

One thing I would like to suggest is seeking out someone who shoots/collects/builds muzzle loaders and ask to go out shooting for a day. It's not hard to learn, but there are tips and tricks that make life a lot easier. It's also good to learn what a nice muzzle loader feels like, rather than some junky ML you'll find at cabelas or used (and heavily abused) on the table at a gunshow. Making the right tools for the job also really helps with muzzle loading. A variable powder measure, or some fixed powder measures, a horn, patches, a patch knife, ball bag, tin for caps (or spare flints, hammer and vent pick), all go a long way towards making your shooting a lot more enjoyable. A brass ramrod can also really help if your gun starts to coke up

[270 ELK]

I just sold my 45 cal. hawkens had extra barrel 36" long very accurate killed some deer with it 50 cal. is a much better choice for a muzzle loader got out of it now . good cleaning is # one at all times