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07-15-2018, 02:14 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,627
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A Must for the Back Country First Aid Kit
Saw this and am thinking these should be in every pack pack first aid kit. Great for back country use. Might save having to use sutures.
https://www.facebook.com/InTheKnowIn...zmFnTk0FFMCqz8
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This country was started by voyagers whose young lives were swept away by the currents of the rivers for ten cents a day... just for the vanity of the European's beaver hats. ~ Red Bullets
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It is when you walk alone in nature that you discover your strengths and weaknesses. ~ Red Bullets
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07-15-2018, 06:49 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 9
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what A coincidence.
I was just putting together a first aid kit and looking for a checklist online. I remember the AB hunter training manual had a good checklist for both survival kits and first aid but alas, I am up north and my book is in storage downsouth.
anywho: yeah those are a clever combo of steri strips and zip ties
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07-15-2018, 09:29 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,921
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Unfortunately, I'm not on Facebook, so I cannot see the article you posted...
That being said, nobody, I repeat nobody should be suturing anyone without medical training (out in the boonies or at home)!! I'm not sure why people think that they can (or should)! Any patient with a wound needing more then a steristrip to close ,should probably be evacuated (more important then any suture kit in the backcountry, would be a emergency communication device - to call in the trained professionals)! You of course would be liable if you performed a medical procedure (like suturing) if you are not specifically trained for (plus I don't know of one advanced first aid course that teaches it)!!
Again not sure what device you posted and how it relates to would closures, but hopefully it's less invasive then suturing, sounds like it might be, but is it worth the cost over steristrips?...
Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bullets
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__________________
The virtuous find delight in mountains, the wise in rivers.
-Confucius
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07-15-2018, 09:41 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,586
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[QUOTE=ÜberFly;3812284]Unfortunately, I'm not on Facebook, so I cannot see the article you posted...
That being said, nobody, I repeat nobody should be suturing anyone without medical training (out in the boonies or at home)!! I'm not sure why people think that they can (or should)!
Because you can't suture a two day old wound and you are 3 days from a hospital.
I know of two incidents where the person was glad to have there hands sutured in remote camps in the Yukon.
Making contact with a SPOT or Sat phone doesn't lift the clouds to allow a float plane to land.
It's not uncommon to be weather in for several days.
I can't legally apply a tourniquet but in a remote area either but I am not going sit and wait for a person to bleed out.
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07-15-2018, 09:58 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: On the border in Lloydminster
Posts: 8,342
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Butterfly sutures have been part of my kit for many years the ones in the video are an improvement pulling the skin tighter to promote faster healing.
for those not on Facebook
https://www.dermaclipus.com/
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07-15-2018, 10:00 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: With my dogs
Posts: 4,545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Rat
I can't legally apply a tourniquet but in a remote area either but I am not going sit and wait for a person to bleed out.
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You can legally apply a tourniquet. It's now standard first aid practice for severe bleeding that can't be controlled with pressure and elevation.
Those clips are pretty cool. They are currently Rx-only.
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alacringa
"This Brittany is my most cherished possession — the darndest bird-finder I have ever seen, a tough and wiry little dog with a choke-bored nose and the ability to read birds’ minds." -Jack O'Connor
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07-15-2018, 10:09 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,921
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Suturing is NOT a life saving technique (unless performed by a trauma surgeon to close off an artery)! Pack and pressure or tourniquet and transition (tourniquets are taught and accepted as a life saving technique - if used properly)!
I'm not saying suturing wth dental floss doesn't happen in the backcountry (with success), I'm saying one shouldn't do it if not trained (due to liability reasons or making things worse). People have free will and will do what they want...
[QUOTE=Battle Rat;3812292]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ÜberFly
Unfortunately, I'm not on Facebook, so I cannot see the article you posted...
That being said, nobody, I repeat nobody should be suturing anyone without medical training (out in the boonies or at home)!! I'm not sure why people think that they can (or should)!
Because you can't suture a two day old wound and you are 3 days from a hospital.
I know of two incidents where the person was glad to have there hands sutured in remote camps in the Yukon.
Making contact with a SPOT or Sat phone doesn't lift the clouds to allow a float plane to land.
It's not uncommon to be weather in for several days.
I can't legally apply a tourniquet but in a remote area either but I am not going sit and wait for a person to bleed out.
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__________________
The virtuous find delight in mountains, the wise in rivers.
-Confucius
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07-15-2018, 10:16 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alacringa
You can legally apply a tourniquet. It's now standard first aid practice for severe bleeding that can't be controlled with pressure and elevation.
Those clips are pretty cool. They are currently Rx-only.
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By 1st aid training? Thats must be a recent and welcome change.
Good to.know.
Thanks
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07-15-2018, 10:19 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,204
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Crazy glue is small and lightweight enough to add to a kit for emergencies. Works very well
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Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
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2. You're stupid
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07-15-2018, 10:26 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,586
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[QUOTE=ÜberFly;3812307]Suturing is NOT a life saving technique (unless performed by a trauma surgeon to close off an artery)! Pack and pressure or tourniquet and transition (tourniquets are taught and accepted as a life saving technique - if used properly)!
I'm not saying suturing wth dental floss doesn't happen in the backcountry (with success), I'm saying one shouldn't do it if not trained (due to liability reasons or making things worse). People have free will and will do what they want...
I'm not saying do it first with improvised string.
I'm saying it may be the best option for the situation.
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07-15-2018, 10:37 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vulcan Ab
Posts: 3,871
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__________________
"It's like bragging that it's 10 CENTIMETERS LONG! (when really, it's 4" dude, settle down)"
Huntinstuff
"Me neither but it's all in the eye of the beer holder"
norwestalta
.....out of bounds.....but funny none the less!
LC
"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......
when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.
Go figure." -Huntinstuff
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07-15-2018, 11:10 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: With my dogs
Posts: 4,545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Rat
By 1st aid training? Thats must be a recent and welcome change.
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It's a change within the last few years, BUT it must be emphasized that it is a last-resort solution, as it can result in loss of limb. The vast majority of injuries do not require the complete removal of blood flow to a limb.
__________________
alacringa
"This Brittany is my most cherished possession — the darndest bird-finder I have ever seen, a tough and wiry little dog with a choke-bored nose and the ability to read birds’ minds." -Jack O'Connor
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07-15-2018, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ÜberFly
Unfortunately, I'm not on Facebook, so I cannot see the article you posted...
That being said, nobody, I repeat nobody should be suturing anyone without medical training (out in the boonies or at home)!! I'm not sure why people think that they can (or should)! Any patient with a wound needing more then a steristrip to close ,should probably be evacuated (more important then any suture kit in the backcountry, would be a emergency communication device - to call in the trained professionals)! You of course would be liable if you performed a medical procedure (like suturing) if you are not specifically trained for (plus I don't know of one advanced first aid course that teaches it)!!
Again not sure what device you posted and how it relates to would closures, but hopefully it's less invasive then suturing, sounds like it might be, but is it worth the cost over steristrips?...
Peter
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The Product is essentially a butterfly/steristrip that has tiny cinch straps that pull wound together. Looks pretty cool, if it works. No suturing required.
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07-15-2018, 11:52 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,028
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Quick-clot, butterfly strips and a tourniquet are in all my vehicles and hunting packs.
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07-15-2018, 12:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alacringa
It's a change within the last few years, BUT it must be emphasized that it is a last-resort solution, as it can result in loss of limb. The vast majority of injuries do not require the complete removal of blood flow to a limb.
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Totally. When I worked as an EMT tourniquets to control bleeding were extremely discouraged. Never saw one used and responded to plenty of trauma calls including amputated feet, hands, and a femoral bleed among countless lacerations. Direct pressure works wonders.
Where I see a place for tourniquets is in warfare, extreme trauma, and remote backcountry scenarios where it is not possible to apply direct pressure.
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07-15-2018, 12:13 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 403
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so i guess we are supposed to sit and sing campfire songs while waiting for the medic to get there? could be a long wait if there is no cell service? not supposed to give an epi pen injection to some either,
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07-15-2018, 12:22 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bat119
Butterfly sutures have been part of my kit for many years the ones in the video are an improvement pulling the skin tighter to promote faster healing.
for those not on Facebook
https://www.dermaclipus.com/
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Thanks for posting the link.
[QUOTE=Battle Rat;3812292]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ÜberFly
Unfortunately, I'm not on Facebook, so I cannot see the article you posted...
That being said, nobody, I repeat nobody should be suturing anyone without medical training (out in the boonies or at home)!! I'm not sure why people think that they can (or should)!
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UberFly.. My suggestion of not having to suture meant the injured person themself not having to sew up their own wound. I kept sutures in my tool box at work and backpack. Once I took a clean cut at work and was able to put in 3 stitches myself. Healed fine. In the back country I wouldn't hesitate to attempt self stitching but these new dermaclipus closures would sure be easier.
__________________
___________________________________________
This country was started by voyagers whose young lives were swept away by the currents of the rivers for ten cents a day... just for the vanity of the European's beaver hats. ~ Red Bullets
___________________________________________
It is when you walk alone in nature that you discover your strengths and weaknesses. ~ Red Bullets
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07-15-2018, 01:45 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 1,436
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Looks like a great addition to any backcountry first-aid kit. Question is where to obtain them ? Looking at their website, it appears they are available via prescription only. From their website "As the DermaClip® device is Rx Only, license information must be collected before orders can be processed. Every customer will need to have a valid Rx authorization on file."
Mr Conservation
__________________
"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted" Jose Ortega y Gasset - Meditations on Hunting
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07-15-2018, 02:00 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattthegorby
Totally. When I worked as an EMT tourniquets to control bleeding were extremely discouraged. Never saw one used and responded to plenty of trauma calls including amputated feet, hands, and a femoral bleed among countless lacerations. Direct pressure works wonders.
Where I see a place for tourniquets is in warfare, extreme trauma, and remote backcountry scenarios where it is not possible to apply direct pressure.
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I could imagine the situation where you cannot apply pressure and move the patient at the same time due to limited resources.
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07-15-2018, 02:49 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Rat
I could imagine the situation where you cannot apply pressure and move the patient at the same time due to limited resources.
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Ya, I agree. I have thankfully never been involved in a call with life threatening extremity bleeding that involved technical rescue.
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07-15-2018, 04:53 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ÜberFly
Unfortunately, I'm not on Facebook, so I cannot see the article you posted.
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That's weird, I'm not on FB either and have no issues seeing public profiles.
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07-15-2018, 06:23 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 1,139
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Great looking product
I know of at least 2 instances I would have used that product successfully
If I can acquire them, I’d have a bunch in my pack.
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07-15-2018, 07:06 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,665
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Case by case so many variables.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattthegorby
Totally. When I worked as an EMT tourniquets to control bleeding were extremely discouraged. Never saw one used and responded to plenty of trauma calls including amputated feet, hands, and a femoral bleed among countless lacerations. Direct pressure works wonders.
Where I see a place for tourniquets is in warfare, extreme trauma, and remote backcountry scenarios where it is not possible to apply direct pressure.
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You can also design a tourniquet to apply direct pressure using improvised splints and and object to apply the pressure. That way you are not cutting off all blood flow to the extremity.
As for the stitches the most sterile and clean wound and the least painful option would be best with the butterflies. I wouldn’t use glue on a large wound more times than not it’s the infection that creates severe complications.
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As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
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