A great point made in another forum about thieves

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If I am in bed at 3AM, there is a can of pepper spray on our night stand, so I will be at least somewhat prepared. And if you think that someone can sneak into our home in the middle of the night while we are sleeping, good luck with that. Anyone that has been to my home knows that I have three living burglar alarms, and the chances of someone getting into our yard, let alone into our home , without at least one of them detecting the intruder and alerting us, is pretty much non existent. And if someone does enter our home in the night, he/she will be greeted by all three furry burglar alarms, so it is them that will be at a disadvantage.

Can of pepper spray...
at 3 am while you are full of sleep?

Not a deterant .
You are not going to hit your target,

Alarm systems, are only great if yo live next door to a police shop and even then a security company gets dispatched before the cops and the theives are usually long gone in the mean time.

If I am prepared for your pooches, Three quick shots and they are down and I have you.

A virtual puddle at the foot of your bed having sprayed the closet door with your spray.

Also in effective if I have my face covered and I am wearing safety goggles.

Life isn't a movie son and most in a fight or flight do the latter.

[gtr]

This certainly has gone south. Surprise...

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Can of pepper spray...
at 3 am while you are full of sleep?

Not a deterant .
You are not going to hit your target,

Alarm systems, are only great if yo live next door to a police shop and even then a security company gets dispatched before the cops and the theives are usually long gone in the mean time.

If I am prepared for your pooches, Three quick shots and they are down and I have you.

A virtual puddle at the foot of your bed having sprayed the closet door with your spray.

Also in effective if I have my face covered and I am wearing safety goggles.

Life isn't a movie son and most in a fight or flight do the latter.

Serious question, are you on medicinal weed lately? Are you ok? It's like you're being anti-everything lately.

[Tfng]

I'm pretty sick of people stealing my stuff lately. If I could use whatever force I wanted to defend my property a gun wouldn't be the first line of defence.

ETOWNCANUCK

Would you be prepared for the PowerRam to break your knee cap when you pulled the handle on my truck door?

How would you feel about having a 12 inch savaugeau clamped on your arm when you reach through that oh so tempting poorly repaired hole in my back door to unlock it?

It's all talk but I'd love to leave traps for the thieves.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Can of pepper spray...
at 3 am while you are full of sleep?

Not a deterant .
You are not going to hit your target,

Alarm systems, are only great if yo live next door to a police shop and even then a security company gets dispatched before the cops and the theives are usually long gone in the mean time.

If I am prepared for your pooches, Three quick shots and they are down and I have you.

A virtual puddle at the foot of your bed having sprayed the closet door with your spray.

Also in effective if I have my face covered and I am wearing safety goggles.

Life isn't a movie son and most in a fight or flight do the latter.

The point being, that the dogs will wake me before anyone even reaches the house, so I will have at least some time to wake up and realize what is going on. The more stealthy that the thief is trying to be the more time that I will have. As to missing with pepper spray, I can pretty much fog a room, and unless you have goggles and a respirator on, it will likely still have some effect, and you will be dealing with the three dogs at the same time. As to dispatching three dogs with three quick shots, they are quick, and you would have to be a very good shot to hit three fast moving targets with three shots in poor light. Perhaps military special forces or SWAT trained people could manage this, but most home intruders likely haven't had that type of training. And with three dogs barking, any thief with a clue is going to retreat rather than continue on with the element of surprise gone, and the homeowners likely calling 911. And if he is stupid enough to try and shoot my dogs and continue into the house instead of retreating, the gunshots will give me reason to believe that myself and my family are in danger, and I will forget the pepper spray and go with a shotgun instead, take a defensive position, and aim for the head of anyone that approaches me.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The point being, that the dogs will wake me before anyone even reaches the house, so I will have at least some time to wake up and realize what is going on. The more stealthy that the thief is trying to be the more time that I will have. As to missing with pepper spray, I can pretty much fog a room, and unless you have goggles and a respirator on, it will likely still have some effect, and you will be dealing with the three dogs at the same time. As to dispatching three dogs with three quick shots, they are quick, and you would have to be a very good shot to hit three fast moving targets with three shots in poor light. Perhaps military special forces or SWAT trained people could manage this, but most home intruders likely haven't had that type of training. And with three dogs barking, any thief with a clue is going to retreat rather than continue on with the element of surprise gone, and the homeowners likely calling 911. And if he is stupid enough to try and shoot my dogs and continue into the house instead of retreating, the gunshots will give me reason to believe that myself and my family are in danger, and I will forget the pepper spray and go with a shotgun instead, take a defensive position, and aim for the head of anyone that approaches me.

you mean the shotgun that is locked in your case, or locker and the ammo separated like your supposed to by law in Canada?

Reality about the pooches.

I'm in your garage.

It's 3 am and you have had a long week at work.

You will just tell them to be quiet, so you can get back to sleep.

Won't be until morning that you notice that I have your truck .

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by Tfng

I'm pretty sick of people stealing my stuff lately. If I could use whatever force I wanted to defend my property a gun wouldn't be the first line of defence.

ETOWNCANUCK

Would you be prepared for the PowerRam to break your knee cap when you pulled the handle on my truck door?

How would you feel about having a 12 inch savaugeau clamped on your arm when you reach through that oh so tempting poorly repaired hole in my back door to unlock it?

It's all talk but I'd love to leave traps for the thieves.

You don't have enough traps on your stuff to protect it all.

Also you would get charged with causing bodily harm, and do more time in jail than I would,
At this point since I haven't stolen anything at best I am just a Tresspass by night,
A summary conviction
Released on my own reconnaissance,
Meanwhile your cuffed and dragged off to the slammer, while we all debate your case as to how unfair it is

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

you mean the shotgun that is locked in your case, or locker and the ammo separated like your supposed to by law in Canada?

Reality about the pooches.

I'm in your garage.

It's 3 am and you have had a long week at work.

You will just tell them to be quiet, so you can get back to sleep.

Won't be until morning that you notice that I have your truck .

Reality, I am retired, so no long week at work.
Reality, the dogs hear you before you even end get into the garage, and they start barking then.
Reality ,your widow can argue the legal storage of firearms after you try and shoot my dogs that I let into the garage , giving me an excuse to fear for my life and shoot you.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Reality, I am retired, so no long week at work.
Reality, the dogs hear you before you even end get into the garage, and they start barking then.
Reality ,your widow can argue the legal storage of firearms after you try and shoot my dogs that I let into the garage , giving me an excuse to fear for my life and shoot you.

I'm unarmed, and just stealing your truck
You shoot me thinking your justified,
And your not

You will be looking at your family through a video screen, if they still talk to you,
Meantime, I sue your estate and get your house,
Thus ruining your family altogether.



May not have gotten your truck at the moment,
But I'll be able to get my own after I sell your house.

Also I need only less than 60 seconds to steal your truck because I'm a good thief and I'll be gone with it before you even get your slippers on

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I'm unarmed, and just stealing your truck
You shoot me thinking your justified,
And your not

You will be looking at your family through a video screen, if they still talk to you,
Meantime, I sue your estate and get your house,
Thus ruining your family altogether.



May not have gotten your truck at the moment,
But I'll be able to get my own after I sell your house.

Also I need only less than 60 seconds to steal your truck because I'm a good thief and I'll be gone with it before you even get your slippers on

If you are unarmed, how did you shoot my dogs?

If I am prepared for your pooches,. Three quick shots and they are down and I have you

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you are unarmed, how did you shoot my dogs]

Different scenarios

There is no response you can come up with that the theives wouldn't win

This is Canada,

You lose no matter what

As soon as I commmit a crime against you I have more rights than you and my lawyer will advocate those rights.

If I get injured, I am in custody of the state and I get looked after better than you will in your old age home.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Different scenarios

There is no response you can come up with that the theives wouldn't win

This is Canada,

You lose no matter what

As soon as I commmit a crime against you I have more rights than you and my lawyer will advocate those rights.

If I get injured, I am in custody of the state and I get looked after better than you will in your old age home.

If you open fire in a home to shoot dogs or to shoot at people, and the homeowner shoots you dead, all the rights in the world won't be much good to you. And if the homeowner is charged, there is a good chance that the jury will believe that he feared for his life, because of your gunshots, and therefore the homeowner was justified in shooting you.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I'm unarmed, and just stealing your truck
You shoot me thinking your justified,
And your not

You will be looking at your family through a video screen, if they still talk to you,
Meantime, I sue your estate and get your house,
Thus ruining your family altogether.



May not have gotten your truck at the moment,
But I'll be able to get my own after I sell your house.

Also I need only less than 60 seconds to steal your truck because I'm a good thief and I'll be gone with it before you even get your slippers on

Yep....you sure do have things figured out on the thief's side of the equation.

Many of your statements on theoretical situations have you as the theif.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you open fire in a home to shoot dogs or to shoot at people, and the homeowner shoots you dead, all the rights in the world won't be much good to you. And if the homeowner is charged, there is a good chance that the jury will believe that he feared for his life, because of your gunshots, and therefore the homeowner was justified in shooting you.

If that is truly what you believe.

Remember this isn't a justice system.

Like I also said,

You are not as prepared as you think for someone entering your home,
No one Is,
Put aside your bravado,
It'll just get you hurt.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Yep....you sure do have things figured out on the thief's side of the equation.

Many of your statements on theoretical situations have you as the theif.

I use my self as the thief to punch holes into the belief that any lame person would have the upper hand,

In a fight or flight it is often the latter

As the thief I have the better chance of success

Even if caught, I won't get anywhere as much as you think I should, and will be out doing the same to someone else.

Even if I kill you.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

If that is truly what you believe.

Remember this isn't a justice system.

Like I also said,

You are not as prepared as you think for someone entering your home,
No one Is,
Put aside your bravado,
It'll just get you hurt.

Are you saying that a dead thief is better off than the homeowner that shot him after he opened fire in the home?

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Are you saying that a dead thief is better off than the homeowner that shot him after he opened fire in the home?

I'm saying that you won't actually pull the trigger.

Saying you will kill a man, and actually doing it is two different things.

If you are actually a decent person t begin with, you actually won't do it

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I'm saying that you won't actually pull the trigger.

Saying you will kill a man, and actually doing it is two different things.

If you are actually a decent person t begin with, you actually won't do it

And I believe that a decent person would pull the trigger if a home intruder was in his home firing a firearm at him, his family, or even at his dogs. A decent person would want to stop such a scumbag from ever threatening another person again. I believe that killing another person does not mean that you are not a decent person, if you do so to prevent other people's lives from being threatened.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And I believe that a decent person would pull the trigger if a home intruder was in his home firing a firearm at him, his family, or even at his dogs. A decent person would want to stop such a scumbag from ever threatening another person again. I believe that killing another person does not mean that you are not a decent person, if you do so to prevent other people's lives from being threatened.

Doesn't mean you'd actually do it.
Or even be on target.

If I'm a scumbag I have nothing to lose

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Doesn't mean you'd actually do it.
Or even be on target.

If I'm a scumbag I have nothing to lose

And it doesn't mean that I wouldn't shoot, or that I would not be on target. Even if he has nothing else, a scumbag still has a life to lose.

[brslk]

Most people that do B&E's are scumbag meth heads or just losers in general.
I doubt any of them are organized enough to have a gun or anything that would worry me.
I have an alarm that can be heard about two blocks away.
The cops take about 5 minutes or less to get here.
Even if they didn't 99% of the lowlifes would be scared off by a screaming alarm and all the neighbors that would be outside wondering WTF all the racket was about.
I keep all my stuff locked up, have a very good alarm system and other deterrents I won't mention online.
My vehicles are locked and alarmed with starter disablers.
I feel pretty safe and don't worry about it.
Besides, I live in a good neighborhood with a low crime rate.

[alta270]

Originally Posted by brslk

Most people that do B&E's are scumbag meth heads or just losers in general.
I doubt any of them are organized enough to have a gun or anything that would worry me.
I have an alarm that can be heard about two blocks away.
The cops take about 5 minutes or less to get here.
Even if they didn't 99% of the lowlifes would be scared off by a screaming alarm and all the neighbors that would be outside wondering WTF all the racket was about.
I keep all my stuff locked up, have a very good alarm system and other deterrents I won't mention online.
My vehicles are locked and alarmed with starter disablers.
I feel pretty safe and don't worry about it.
Besides, I live in a good neighborhood with a low crime rate.

I have none of those, and never have worried that I need to. There are sure a lot of 'online tough guys' talking about how wonderfully they would handle a hypothetical situation. Heck, most of the time I never lock my doors.

I refuse to live in fear. Never had a problem, and neighbors never had a problem.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

If you are actually a decent person to begin with, you actually won't do it

This just in..."cops aren't decent people"

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by brslk

Most people that do B&E's are scumbag meth heads or just losers in general.
I doubt any of them are organized enough to have a gun or anything that would worry me.
I have an alarm that can be heard about two blocks away.
The cops take about 5 minutes or less to get here.
Even if they didn't 99% of the lowlifes would be scared off by a screaming alarm and all the neighbors that would be outside wondering WTF all the racket was about.
I keep all my stuff locked up, have a very good alarm system and other deterrents I won't mention online.
My vehicles are locked and alarmed with starter disablers.
I feel pretty safe and don't worry about it.
Besides, I live in a good neighborhood with a low crime rate.

Cops don't respond to your alarm,
It is contracted out to a Security company,
Who may not arrive for almost an hour,
Then it is them who calls the key holder or cops depending on what is found

Your neighbors aren't as involved as you think they are

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by tri777

This just in..."cops aren't decent people"

People aren't decent people

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And it doesn't mean that I wouldn't shoot, or that I would not be on target. Even if he has nothing else, a scumbag still has a life to lose.

I hope you never get the chance to prove me wrong.

But I promise you it will never go as you think it will,

No one can say that.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by alta270

I have none of those, and never have worried that I need to. There are sure a lot of 'online tough guys' talking about how wonderfully they would handle a hypothetical situation. Heck, most of the time I never lock my doors.

I refuse to live in fear. Never had a problem, and neighbors never had a problem.

Most do live in a dream world and fantasy where they think they would win in a sudden life or death situation.

No one can say for sure what they will do

It's impossible

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

This is getting pretty interesting here. Choose your ammo well peeps as you don't want to be hitting the kid sleeping next door or twenty doors down for that fact. 40 cal maybe some #1 buck. Keep the 9 in the locker folks

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I'm saying that you won't actually pull the trigger.

Saying you will kill a man, and actually doing it is two different things.

If you are actually a decent person t begin with, you actually won't do it

No, I will just stop the threat and oh yes it will be stopped in its tracks.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I use my self as the thief to punch holes into the belief that any lame person would have the upper hand,

In a fight or flight it is often the latter

As the thief I have the better chance of success

Even if caught, I won't get anywhere as much as you think I should, and will be out doing the same to someone else.

Even if I kill you.

I'm pretty sure many of the guys on here have shot 10X more than most theives. Have handled guns 10X more and 10X longer. And have shot 20X more living things and 10X more moving things. (if you count gophers, make it 1000x)

That's live trigger, live action experience. After many years the shouldering, aiming, targeting, target following AND trigger pulling is almost instinctive. Same goes for loading, reloading, safety, etc.

Now as for handguns, most legal owners have gone to the range a lot....doubt a theif (with a record) is going to the range much.....more like playing thug with it in front of his buddies in his basement hole.

And probably his handgun training consists of canting it sideways in front of a mirror...and coming up with "Yo....motherxxxxer" witty one liners.

My bet is, when the chips are down, I'll bet on the 70yr old who's been to the range 100 to 1000x, who's hunted for years, and killed things versus some puke with an entitled to others stuff tough guy attutude.

And really.....who has more self-displine, the guy who works for a living or a theif that won't. So who has applied themselves, at the range, at the gym, at the martial arts, at dealing with the challenges of life. The reason the puke is a theif is mainly BECAUSE he lacks the ability to apply himself and the self displine.

My experience with these types, is they are the weakest opponent you will ever come across.