Marijuana

[great white whaler]

Harper government to crack down on people who get busted instead of 7 years in jail she'll be 14 years in jail ,,,,what this guy on crack ?

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by great white whaler

Harper government to crack down on people who get busted instead of 7 years in jail she'll be 14 years in jail ,,,,what this guy on crack ?

He's on crack...ing down on crime. Boob Rae is already whining. If a liberal is against it, you just know it's a good thing.

This should be good for the jail building industry. I believe it's just for dudes growing more than 6 plants isn't it?? Those that are obviously out to sell it.

Isn't he increasing min's for all sorts of things...not just pot?

[doetracks]

And Bob was complaining about how much he thinks it will cost to jail a person.

So, he would rather have then on the street? WT...???

[Nait Hadya]

i don't mind my tax dollars going towards boarding that piece of scum who lives down the street from a school and has a grow op in the sub floor, in the nearest pen. or closeing down that there meth lab's and listen to them bitch and squeal in the pen for 14.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Jail isn't much of a deterrent.
People don't set out expecting to get caught so...this won't reduce crime only punish those that do crime and manage to get caught.

I'd rather see better deterrence like more money for policing. This would help us catch the baddies and be a better deternce because there would be an elevated expectation of getting caught.

Besides we are already number 2 for the number of people in jail...in the west.
Only the US has more.

Funny how the countries that seem to have the most people in jail and the least invested in prevention and rehabilitation...also have the highest crime rates...

Finally the war on drugs is about 40 years old now and we seem to still be losing...
Maybe a change in tactics is in order?
Especially with the softer stuff like pot... good Lord... it's the safest drug in the world including alcohol.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Jail isn't much of a deterrent.

Unfortunately true. Amazingly (to me) prison spending passed university spending in California a decade ago. Insane, wasteful, and it hasn't slowed crime there. I am absolutely for stiffer sentences, but we should be under no illusions that this alone will drop the crime rate. The only semi-direct correlation to crime statistics has been the average age of the population. Young punks commit more crime, and it's been actually dropping as our population ages. Grandpa doesn't do a lot of B&E's.

[tommyguitar]

A clear move by Harper to fill the new jails. Pretty sad that the country stepping away from decriminalization for that. Think of the tax revenue that could be gained..

[Bear Grylls]

Originally Posted by tommyguitar

A clear move by Harper to fill the new jails. Pretty sad that the country stepping away from decriminalization for that. Think of the tax revenue that could be gained..

Think of all the douchebag potheads if it gets decriminalized. I don't want my country to end up like California.

[cody c]

Originally Posted by Bear Grylls

Think of all the douchebag potheads if it gets decriminalized. I don't want my country to end up like California.

Id rather people smoke pot and pan handle, then getting my tax dollars to feed them and supply them with a room and babysitters.

I suspect that pressure from the US is the only reason it hasnt been decriminalized yet

Money spent on catching hard drug traffickers is much better spent then throwing more of the population in doors IMO.

[alwaysfishn]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Jail isn't much of a deterrent.

The only reason it is not a deterrent is because our jails are basically a resort destination for criminals! Put them in work chain gangs, house them in tents, make them cook their own food, do their own laundry, etc.

The fact is people know when they are committing a crime and criminals make a conscious choice to do so! More policing while good, is expensive and breeds more creative criminals. Along with that comes the attitude that a crime is ok as long as you don't get caught....

The fact is a crime is a choice and needs to be punished. If more criminals experienced that, word would get out. In countries like Saudi Arabia their is very little theft because the punishment is the severance of your right hand. Maybe that is an alternative??

[alwaysfishn]

Originally Posted by cody c

Id rather people smoke pot and pan handle, then getting my tax dollars to feed them and supply them with a room and babysitters.

I suspect that pressure from the US is the only reason it hasnt been decriminalized yet

Money spent on catching hard drug traffickers is much better spent then throwing more of the population in doors IMO.

So where will the pot smokers and panhandlers get their drug of choice if you focus on the drug traffickers?

[rhuntley12]

Look guys we are doing something!

[AndrewM]

It is a law that has to due with growing it. It is a law that is going after the drug dealers. It has nothing to do with changing the possession laws or against smoking it.

[cody c]

Originally Posted by alwaysfishn

The only reason it is not a deterrent is because our jails are basically a resort destination for criminals! Put them in work chain gangs, house them in tents, make them cook their own food, do their own laundry, etc.

The fact is people know when they are committing a crime and criminals make a conscious choice to do so! More policing while good, is expensive and breeds more creative criminals. Along with that comes the attitude that a crime is ok as long as you don't get caught....

The fact is a crime is a choice and needs to be punished. If more criminals experienced that, word would get out. In countries like Saudi Arabia their is very little theft because the punishment is the severance of your right hand. Maybe that is an alternative??

I believe there have been studies to show that putting someone in jail only serves satisfaction for victims, but actually does not generally correct the behaviour of criminals. I think the system has to look at ways to reform criminals, rather than just to punish them.

Having said that I am a fan of the idea of work camps and chain gangs. Hard labour=hard time. Or make some soyulent green out of em!

[BeeGuy]

This has everything to do with establishing a multi-billion dollar industrial prison industry.

You know the same kind of industry that has led California toward bankruptcy and was the key to getting marijuana decrim there.

We all know Tobacco and Alcohol are FAR MORE dangerous than marijuana.

How about we close all the gas stations, convenience stores, and liquor depots that sell these products near schools.

The "gettim boys" attitude on this site has been tired from day 1.

[rugatika]

Yes...it was the corporate jails that bankrupted California...not the gold plated public union pensions.

One thing I do know, is that a criminal in jail is less likely to commit a crime than a criminal on the street, and to that end I am all in favour of putting them away. What I am NOT in favour of is spending 70 thou keeping them in jail every year. They should be earning their keep. AND if you get out of jail and re-offend...guess what...you're going back to jail for life...no questions asked. I say build more jails and lets get the criminals off the streets. Ask the police and dollars to donuts I bet they say they are dealing with the same people over and over again for the most part. These guys don't have anything to contribute to society. We do not lose a thing by locking them up for life other than the cost to keep them there...which should be reduced to nil.

I never could understand the sympathy people have for these parasites.

[ShawnM]

Stiffer jail sentences, sure I'm for it. IF it's done sensibly and with some logic and insight. Unfortunately these bills always seem to crack down harder on the minor crimes and don't do much differently when it comes to major crimes.

Should we be sending someone to prision for 14 years for growing pot in their basement when sex offenders can get out in 2-5 years? Repeat sex offenderse will spend less time in jail than 14 years for each offence. Someone who puts a meth lab in their kitchen is far more dangerous to the neighborhood than a grow op. The chemicals to make meth are extremely toxic, flammable and can be explosive.

Let's get tougher on criminals that have the largest impact to a community and once they are cleaned up we can work on the less serious issues.

[Redfrog]

"I'd rather see better deterrence like more money for policing. This would help us catch the baddies and be a better deternce because there would be an elevated expectation of getting caught."


Catching them isn't a problem. Drug dealers get caught over and over again.

"Besides we are already number 2 for the number of people in jail...in the west.
Only the US has more."

Do you have any idea how many people are in prison in Canada? How much it costs now? You may be surprised. I was.

"Finally the war on drugs is about 40 years old now and we seem to still be losing...
Maybe a change in tactics is in order?"

I agree and that is exactly what this is. Instead of a revolving door maybe we need to let the criminals know we've had enough.

I can't understand the great concern for rehabilitating criminals. A relatively small number of criminals impact a large number of citizens negatively on a daily basis and the concern is whether the crook is ok. Gimme a freaking break.

These druggies steal steadily to support their habits. How much does that cost society in cash and damage and loss of security? How much does it cost to run these people through the legal system over and over with no positive result?

Lock them up, take away the perks, and make them as self sufficient as possible by contributing back to society as they should have been doing all along. That is the program they need to live with.

If you get the benefits of a safe free society, then you dam well better be contributing to it.

This isn't rocket surgery. Do a cost analysis and I'll bet you'll find locking them up and making them work costs far less than the damage they do and the cost of the legal system that does nothing to protect the people who do contribute to society.


What's it worth to be able to walk down a street at night and be safe.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

Should we be sending someone to prision for 14 years for growing pot in their basement

In order to the amount of plants they have they need to bipass the electricity meter and the water meters. This means everyone else in the city has to pay for it while they receive the benefits.

The law isn't made to catch the small guys who are growing it for themselves. It is to catch the drug dealers who are doing it for profit.

[alwaysfishn]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

Let's get tougher on criminals that have the largest impact to a community and once they are cleaned up we can work on the less serious issues.

Criminals usually start with small crimes that have minimal impact on society. As they get more dependent on crime the crimes get bigger and more brazen. I think your suggestion lacks a little in logic.

A crime is a crime!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

Should we be sending someone to prision for 14 years for growing pot in their basement when sex offenders can get out in 2-5 years? Repeat sex offenderse will spend less time in jail than 14 years for each offence.

I believe that the new crime bill addresses stiffer sentencing for sex offenders as well.

[pattycr125]

make it legal to grow 1 to 3 plants for personal use, that would be okay there would be no more traficking, i don't understand what he is trying to accomplish really, maybe keep kids away from pot? which would be good but good luck with that it won't work. canadians won't give up weed so i do believe this will just be an increase in jail fees for taxpayers.

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I believe that the new crime bill addresses stiffer sentencing for sex offenders as well.

So does my 12 gauge... But it has a MUCH lower rate of recidivism than Harper's bill.

Mistakes happen and people get caught in circumstances that can greatly affect their ability to judge consequences. "There but for the grace of God go I". But there comes a point with that type of offender where you have to take a good long look at whether it's better to have them reintegrated into society or integrated into a compost heap...

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by pattycr125

make it legal to grow 1 to 3 plants for personal use, that would be okay there would be no more traficking, i don't understand what he is trying to accomplish really, maybe keep kids away from pot? which would be good but good luck with that it won't work. canadians won't give up weed so i do believe this will just be an increase in jail fees for taxpayers.

Legalise all drugs.

It is the only course that will lead to any possible regulation of them.

It will take billions of dollars of black market profits which can be steered into the public purse.

It will strike a definitive blow against organized crime, corrupt business and politicians.

And as we've seen in Holland, Portugal, and briefly in other places,

It doesn't change usage rates on the streets, in our schools, or in the privacy of our homes.


In other news: Marijuana is safer than peanuts! Who knew?

[winged1]

I support the concept that the properties of grow ops should be available for seizure. Landlords or thier agents must take on the responsibility of periodic inspection.

[1899b]

..........ahhhh how refereshing. Like this horse has never been beaten or flogged before on the AO forum.

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by cody c

...the system has to look at ways to reform criminals, rather than just to punish them.....

no... the system needs to learn how to catch these low level criminals who have the ability to fly under the radar and effectively hide their activities from law enforcement. they need to recruit members who have a genuine interest in attacking the problem, not walking away from it or worse turning a blind eye to it. never ceases to amaze me how even the best trained can lose focus on their task and get side tracked by criminals who can lie and manipulate.

some of you paint a picture of a rec user being harmless to his community yet fail to realize that his supplier is also selling to kids on the street,not so innocent now is he.

when you looked @ the stats and saw there were no drug busts on grow ops for a long time and then a new sherriff comes to town and low and behold there are busts all over the place, a flag should go up. but suddeny he gets sent somewhere else and it's business as usual. you can see who's ghosting the cops.

[bigdaddy37]

[QUOTE=pesky672;1087606]Jail isn't much of a deterrent.
People don't set out expecting to get caught so...this won't reduce crime only punish those that do crime and manage to get caught.

I'd rather see better deterrence like more money for policing. This would help us catch the baddies and be a better deternce because there would be an elevated expectation of getting caught.

Besides we are already number 2 for the number of people in jail...in the west.
Only the US has more.

Funny how the countries that seem to have the most people in jail and the least invested in prevention and rehabilitation...also have the highest crime rates...

QUOTE]

Jail isn't a deterrent but putting more $ into policing to catch the bad guys because getting caught is more of a deterrent? Doesn't make sense. If being in jail isnt a deterrent, how can getting caught be one?

Western countries have more people in jail because countries like China, Vietnam, Korea, etc execute their criminals, chop off their hands, cane them etc. Their prison system is not near as nice as ours. The only reason they don't have more people in prison is because the criminals don't live long enough to get counted. I doubt these countries invest any $ in rehab and the punishment is pretty good prevention.

[tommyguitar]

Originally Posted by Bear Grylls

Think of all the douchebag potheads if it gets decriminalized. I don't want my country to end up like California.

You gotta be joking me. I know way more douchebag drinkers than douchebag potheads. A lot of normal people smoke pot, they probably just don't tell you because of your attitude. If you believe in a free country then you wouldn't believe you should go to jail for growing what is only a plant.

Also, if you don't want to pay high taxes, then you wouldn't support turning normal people into criminals.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by tommyguitar

Also, if you don't want to pay high taxes, then you wouldn't support turning normal people into criminals.

The normal people are not the criminals. The criminals are the drug dealers.