Alberta Canada vs Alberta USA

[lmtada]

Alberta Canada vs Alberta USA. Peter downing on the Goddard report. Peter sums up Alberta position good. Discussing Trudeau, cancel Alaska/Alberta railway. Corruption in Ottawa. 50 minutes. Informative discussion, along with Martin Armstrong.
https://youtu.be/PtNqtC1qFto

[EZM]

I support that all voices are heard and we can put it to a vote for those that want to be a part of the US.

The good news is if they loose the vote there's nothing stopping them from leaving and going there anyways.

If there is no vote granted due to lack of support in the general population - they can just pack up and be on their way sooner.

[wannabe]

The best option is to stop voting for the stupid, incompetent and obviously corrupt liberal party.

[lazylemming]

Two great things about Alberta US would be 1st amendment and 2nd amendment. Canada does not have freedom of speech or of firearm ownership and is currently in the process of further restricting both.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to happen because Albertans like our "free" healthcare too much. Albertans don't seem to understand that nothing is free and we pay for it with our taxes (and debt). In fact, we have a huge bloated inefficient health care system that needs massive cutting to stop the debt bleeding, which Kenney is trying to accomplish right now.

Originally Posted by wannabe

The best option is to stop voting for the stupid, incompetent and obviously corrupt liberal party.

Albertans aren't voting for them....

[markg]

I would consider another option. Alberta could be a protectorate like Guam or Puerto Rico.

We would have autonomy but have access to US Passport, currency and other advantages. We could keep single payer health care and other things that are Canadian. We could be a blend of both systems.

I love Alberta and like Canada. I think we have a quite distinct way of doing things here that is at odds with the rest of Canada. I often feel like the rest of the country drags us down (like crabs in a bucket) when we get too prosperous. Then they don't help out when times are bad.

I dont think its a conservative vs liberal thing because we never seem to be able to change how transfer payments are calculated under either party.

I am not sure we could make it as our own country even if SASK/ MAN / Yukon joined us. Maybe we could who knows. Would we be better off? Maybe. I know one thing I am tired of how Canada treats Alberta. To Quote Rodney Dangerfield "we get no respect"

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by wannabe

The best option is to stop voting for the stupid, incompetent and obviously corrupt liberal party.

Alberta doesn't vote for the liberals, but we are stuck with them anyways. I am not a huge supporter of joining the USA, but with Trudeau trying to destroy us, I don't see any better options right now. If we do nothing, Trudeau will not stop, until he totally destroys Alberta.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by lazylemming

Albertans aren't voting for them....

You may be surprised how many actually are. Cities of Alberta have a surprisingly large amount of liberal supporters.
Just not a majority like many of the eastern provinces.

[zabbo]

Alberta is between the proverbial rock and really hard spot at this point. Stay in Canada and we can expect much much more of what we have been getting over the last twenty or thirty years. Even a conservative government has to please qeeeeebec, Ontario and the rest of the east to remain in power.

Leave Canada and attempt to go it on our own? Lots of formidable obstacles to overcome! Think, no internationally recognized currency ( throw in the covid issue ), aboriginal issues, what portion of the national debt are we responsible for, police, military immigration and on and on. Probably a real ugly divorce! Seems impossible to build a pipeline as part of Canada, think about trying to deal with the TURD as foreign nation!!

Become a protectorate of the US? Puerto Rico didn't fare too well after the big hurricane a couple years back. The donald pretty much said, " not our problem!"

Join the union and become the 51st state? Still have to deal with the Canadian divorce. Many Albertan's would oppose this move. Also means Americans can move in as they see fit. True enough we can move to any state we may choose. We gain first and second amendment rights. Each individual state has much more power regarding judicial legislation. Some good things here, but still many issues that will need to be dealt with.

JMHO

[Smoky buck]

Without negotiations regarding terms the results of joining the USA are unpredictable

Personally I see positives and negatives about joining the USA. The real issue I presently see with the USA presently is it has become very unstable socially. At this time I see a power struggle in their society making the future very unpredictable

Canada is a mess and our society is full of its own problems (Canadians like to follow Americans it seems :thinking-006). I would not be too keen in trading our present problems for another set that just as bad but different.

[sk270]

The current social instability in the US is a concern for me as a nearest neighbour, never mind as a new state.

Anyway, I have a few questions that I can't find quick answers to.

Given the current state of the world oil industry, is North Dakota much better off than Alberta and Saskatchewan?

I thought that pipeline construction was being held up in the US as well, although maybe not to the same extent as in Canada. Am I wrong?

I also thought that the Charter of Rights guaranteed us free speech. Until/unless the US Supreme Court changes its stance, is the situation that much different there?

Thanks for any clarifications anyone can provide.

[lmtada]

Didn’t know Peter Downing left Wexit party. Peter acknowledges Saskatchewan, Manitoba do not share the same animosity towards Ottawa, less likely to join Alberta in its quest towards independence.

[58thecat]

Alberta yanky yeah right with thier issues I will stick to ours....

[Outbound]

Originally Posted by sk270

The current social instability in the US is a concern for me as a nearest neighbour, never mind as a new state.

Anyway, I have a few questions that I can't find quick answers to.

Given the current state of the world oil industry, is North Dakota much better off than Alberta and Saskatchewan?

I thought that pipeline construction was being held up in the US as well, although maybe not to the same extent as in Canada. Am I wrong?

I also thought that the Charter of Rights guaranteed us free speech. Until/unless the US Supreme Court changes its stance, is the situation that much different there?

Thanks for any clarifications anyone can provide.

The Charter of Rights in Canada is more a Charter of Privileges and can be overridden at will by the government if they see fit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectio...ion%2015%20%22

They passed a so-called "hate speech" bill in the recent past and it was more about limiting free speech than actually addressing hate speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedo...c%20society%22.

https://www.lawnow.org/in-canada-and...dangered-list/


https://torontosun.com/opinion/edito...on-free-speech


Canada is a "democratic monarchy", Canadians are subjects not citizens. The whole system is a sham designed by the monarchy to give the subjects the illusion of freedom...which the monarchy and government can take away whenever they feel like it. Look at Britain, Australia and New Zealand for an example of the road Canada is heading down. People there are having their freedoms stripped away rapidly.

This isn't possible in the US. Americans are citizens. Americans (and in my belief ALL people) have unalienable human rights. This belief and the abilities to secure them is enshrined in their Constitution. Canada has no such document, nor beliefs.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by lazylemming

Albertans aren't voting for them....

Isn’t that the crux of it all though? Our elected representation goes to Ottawa and has to contend with a Liberal and NDP coalition who are vindictive that we didn’t vote for any of them. Policies and programs are intentionally designed to punish us for that fact, and we’re fed platitudes and overtaxed compared to the rest of Canada. I say this, because if we weren’t overtaxed, we would not be the nations main net contributor to federal equalization payments. We’re Canada’s golden goose, and we’re treated like Rapunzel, a prisoner who produces something the leadership wants, but we must not dare make demands.

[CMichaud]

Regardless of remain or stay thoughts, the firewall still needs to be enacted and Alberta should have its own constitution.

If we were to leave, I would think remaining a constitutional monarchy and part of the Commonwealth would address some issues arising from the treaties made between the Crown and First Nations.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Alberta yanky yeah right with thier issues I will stick to ours....

I rest my case that many Albertans would oppose joining the US. There are probably more people on this forum that would be inclined to leave Canada than you would find elsewhere. Especially in urban centers like Edmonton and Calgary. That said, even many members here would never agree to leave Canada or join the states.

Guess that adds up to......what ur seeing, is what ur gittin!

[Osky]

Good grief why consider being one of us with the overwhelming debt and stupidity our politicians have delivered?
Seriously. Is there no chance of a unification of western providences? BC, AB, Sask, MB, and maybe western ON telling the East things are going to change or else?
Can the East live without your resources and taxes they demand and use to subjugate you? I say this going by the comments I read here not any personal involvement.
It seems more and more worldwide countries are fractioning under the utopian concept of “special interests” and forgoing the broadly built backbone that made them what they are. For whackos and whiners the strength of the overall nation suffers putting it mildly.

Osky

[sk270]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Isn’t that the crux of it all though? Our elected representation goes to Ottawa and has to contend with a Liberal and NDP coalition who are vindictive that we didn’t vote for any of them. Policies and programs are intentionally designed to punish us for that fact, and we’re fed platitudes and overtaxed compared to the rest of Canada. I say this, because if we weren’t overtaxed, we would not be the nations main net contributor to federal equalization payments. We’re Canada’s golden goose, and we’re treated like Rapunzel, a prisoner who produces something the leadership wants, but we must not dare make demands.

I'm not convinced that the Liberals are vindictive so much as dismissive. Just like most Federal Governments since Confederation.

I think that Alberta is no longer a "have" province with respect to equalization payments. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equali...ents_in_Canada)

As far as I know. the majority Harper government did not fix the equalization system that saw Saskatchewan and Alberta continue to send money to Quebec. This is particularly galling considering Quebec's refusal to allow pipeline construction while condemning "dirty oil". They also don't count the true value of their hydroelectricity into the equalization formula.

No politician, of any party, wants to challenge Quebec.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Osky

Good grief why consider being one of us with the overwhelming debt and stupidity our politicians have delivered?
Seriously. Is there no chance of a unification of western providences? BC, AB, Sask, MB, and maybe western ON telling the East things are going to change or else?
Can the East live without your resources and taxes they demand and use to subjugate you?
Osky

"Subjugate" is a little strong but we are certainly taken advantage of.

I like the idea of western unification and separation, to some extent. However, British Columbia is not the same politically as Alberta and Saskatchewan. They elected both Liberal and NDP MP's in the last election while Saskatchewan and Alberta voted Conservative except for a single NDP seat. They resist pipeline development for both oil and natural gas. My opinion, with no facts to back it up, is that the culture of southern BC is just too different from the Prairies.

Without good access to tidewater, I don't see how the Prairies could go it alone.

[riden]

Originally Posted by zabbo

I rest my case that many Albertans would oppose joining the US. There are probably more people on this forum that would be inclined to leave Canada than you would find elsewhere. Especially in urban centers like Edmonton and Calgary. That said, even many members here would never agree to leave Canada or join the states.

Guess that adds up to......what ur seeing, is what ur gittin!

Can someone help me out. I know this week I read an article where 53% of Albertans said joining the US was a "terrible idea".

Anyone else remember reading it?

[sk270]

An IPSOS poll last Fall showed, I think, 33% Alberta and 27% Saskatchewan in favour of separation.

[Osky]

Originally Posted by sk270

"Subjugate" is a little strong but we are certainly taken advantage of.

I like the idea of western unification and separation, to some extent. However, British Columbia is not the same politically as Alberta and Saskatchewan. They elected both Liberal and NDP MP's in the last election while Saskatchewan and Alberta voted Conservative except for a single NDP seat. They resist pipeline development for both oil and natural gas. My opinion, with no facts to back it up, is that the culture of southern BC is just too different from the Prairies.

Without good access to tidewater, I don't see how the Prairies could go it alone.

270 I absolutely agree on the tidewater topic. I use the word subjugate in regard to you people sending a lot of income to the east with seemingly no say in what happens to it.

Osky

[brazeau]

I am not a Separatist nor an advocate of joining the U.S.A. But, if Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba wanted to form a coalition and separate but needed a tidewater port to make it feasible, where is it absolute that a province has to remain intact. Vancouver Island, the Lower Mainland, Thompson Okanagan and the Kooteney Rockies could remain intact with Northern B.C. joining the coalition. Southern B.C. would remain a province of Canada (think Alaska/Hawaii) That gives the new coalition/country its tidewater port. The Yukon, N.W.T. and northwestern Ontario could join or not. Western F.N. issues would come with the separation but could then be addressed by the new western government rather than Ottawa backed up by the population centres of Toronto and Montreal. Separations, independence and the redrawing of boundaries is not unique, these actions have been in existence since the beginning of time. Just thinking out loud here.

[riden]

Originally Posted by brazeau

I am not a Separatist nor an advocate of joining the U.S.A. But, if Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba wanted to form a coalition and separate but needed a tidewater port to make it feasible, where is it absolute that a province has to remain intact. Vancouver Island, the Lower Mainland, Thompson Okanagan and the Kooteney Rockies could remain intact with Northern B.C. joining the coalition. Southern B.C. would remain a province of Canada (think Alaska/Hawaii) That gives the new coalition/country its tidewater port. The Yukon, N.W.T. and northwestern Ontario could join or not. Western F.N. issues would come with the separation but could then be addressed by the new western government rather than Ottawa backed up by the population centres of Toronto and Montreal. Separations, independence and the redrawing of boundaries is not unique, these actions have been in existence since the beginning of time. Just thinking out loud here.

I have wondered about the same thing and how that would work.

I'm not very optimistic about a reset with treaties though. I'm actually leaning more toward Alberta Indigenous holding veto power over separation. But, I am like you.... thinking out loud.

[lazylemming]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

The real issue I presently see with the USA presently is it has become very unstable socially. At this time I see a power struggle in their society making the future very unpredictable

Canada is a mess and our society is full of its own problems (Canadians like to follow Americans it seems :thinking-006). I would not be too keen in trading our present problems for another set that just as bad but different.

That's a positive for the US. They are struggling against the new socialist agenda, and have a chance to get rid of it. Canada didn't struggle, just accepted it, and Albertans can grumble about it but it's basically a done deal at this point.

Originally Posted by sk270

The current social instability in the US is a concern for me as a nearest neighbour, never mind as a new state.

As above, I think social instability is preferable to a society that silently accepted the left's agenda and is just waiting around, peacefully grumbling about the loss of their freedoms.

[lazylemming]

Originally Posted by sk270

I also thought that the Charter of Rights guaranteed us free speech. Until/unless the US Supreme Court changes its stance, is the situation that much different there?

Canada imposes limits on free speech, such as not allowing "hate speech". The government gets to decide what is "hate speech" and it seems to be getting broader.

In the US, the Supreme Court has established that "hate speech" is protected under the 1st amendment. Note that that could change, and it likely would eventually change if the leftists take over the US.

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by Outbound

The Charter of Rights in Canada is more a Charter of Privileges and can be overridden at will by the government if they see fit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectio...ion%2015%20%22

They passed a so-called "hate speech" bill in the recent past and it was more about limiting free speech than actually addressing hate speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedo...c%20society%22.

https://www.lawnow.org/in-canada-and...dangered-list/


https://torontosun.com/opinion/edito...on-free-speech


Canada is a "democratic monarchy", Canadians are subjects not citizens. The whole system is a sham designed by the monarchy to give the subjects the illusion of freedom...which the monarchy and government can take away whenever they feel like it. Look at Britain, Australia and New Zealand for an example of the road Canada is heading down. People there are having their freedoms stripped away rapidly.

This isn't possible in the US. Americans are citizens. Americans (and in my belief ALL people) have unalienable human rights. This belief and the abilities to secure them is enshrined in their Constitution. Canada has no such document, nor beliefs.

Go to Wikipedia and type in “Japanese Americans 1942”.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by wannabe

The best option is to stop voting for the stupid, incompetent and obviously corrupt liberal party.

Alberta votes don’t count!

Last election Alberta could have elected 30 libtard MP’s and we’d still get raked over the coals.

Federal elections in Canada have nothing to do with the west. They’re all about Quebec and southern Ontario.

As long as Alberta is a part of federation we’ll continue to get screwed!

BW

[59whiskers]

Most people that vote liberal or ndp live in Alberta cities are socialists. The pioneers that built the West are gone and now we have a society that is taking it back from the descendants that built it. The liberals and their media are encouraging rewriting history by allowing statues like John A Macdonald to be vandalized/destroyed. At this point we are one generation/election away from losing our freedom in Alberta/Canada. It is to late for Alberta to separate now because most of the people that live here are not descendants of early pioneers now.

[HalfBreed]

Jay Treaty makes me not care.