6.5 Creedmore ..what's going on ?

[AB2506]

6.5 Creedmoor is a response to target shooters finding the 260Rem lacking in; proper twist and magazine box length to seat out the high BC bullets that have become the rage in long range shooting.

Hornady designed the cartridge from the ground up to address those issues.
The factory rounds are impressive and many shooters never reload because the factory loads meet their needs.

The 6.5 Creedmoor will never be able to keep up with the 260, 6.5 Swede, 6.5-284, 6.5-06 etc. It just can't, because it doesn't have the powder capacity (which is comparable to some target rounds that are not mainstream).

It is not an overnight sensation, it has been out nearly 10 years. However, it has been well promoted and well designed, kind of a textbook example you might say.

So no, we never needed the Creedmoor, but we do have it and it is a fine cartridge on it's own merits. I bought one.

I grew up being told that velocity made the difference. BC was important, but velocity was more important. I had a 25-06 and always loaded max loads. It is an impressive deer/antelope (and more) cartridge.

However, last fall, I sold a couple of rifles and had some cash in the pocket. I wanted another Kimber Montana. I compared the 25-06 (which I had been leaning towards), 6.5 Creedmoor and 7-08. Velocity wise, the 25-06 kicked them both in the ___ at the muzzle. However, get out to 350-400 yards and there was nothing to choose between them (with the bullet weights I selected). Beyond that range the 6.5 began to pull away. As another qualifier, if I needed more power, I would just use my 300WSM.

So after my unscientific comparison, I ordered a Montana in 6.5 Creedmoor.
If a 260 had been available in the Montana, I would have bought the 260, but it wasn't.

So far so good. I like it.

It's a cartridge that just works the way it was designed, nothing more, nothing less. Judge it on it's own merits and ignore comparisons to other cartridges.

[propliner]

Yes, much like the .338 Norma vs .338 Lapua. You can seat the heavier, higher B.C. bullets way out where they should be and still fit the same magazine.

[Throttle_monkey1]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It was designed to hold the long sleek bullets far enough out to still fit the powder in and fit into a 2.8" mag box. I'm having one made with a 3" mag box right now. It is one of very few cartridges that was purpose built from the ground up.

Naysayers, please list the flaws of the 6.5 Creedmoor, I'd be interested in hearing them.

PS, "because I have a 130yr old cartridge that will do the same thing" is not a flaw in the Creedmoor, nor is it true.

I love 6.5s and have nothing against the creedmoor, but your last sentence confuses me. You're having a creedmoore built with a longer mag box (presumably to seat your bullets further out) but it still won't reach the velocities of 6.5x55 handloads in a modern gun. So yes the creedmoor will fit in a short action better than a 6.5x55, and yes it comes with hotter factory ammo. But it cannot match the performance of modern 6.5x55 loads at equal pressures & barrel lengths. Physics doesn't lie.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Throttle_monkey1

I love 6.5s and have nothing against the creedmoor, but your last sentence confuses me. You're having a creedmoore built with a longer mag box (presumably to seat your bullets further out) but it still won't reach the velocities of 6.5x55 handloads in a modern gun. So yes the creedmoor will fit in a short action better than a 6.5x55, and yes it comes with hotter factory ammo. But it cannot match the performance of modern 6.5x55 loads at equal pressures & barrel lengths. Physics doesn't lie.

My last sentence is in reference to it being a short action. I'm loading the 143gr ELD-X bullets for my Creedmoor, after I seat them out to 3" (or as far out as I can), the difference in case capacity between it and the swede will be minimal. Add with that the 1:8 twist and if you can see any difference in performance out to 600yds or so, I'd be amazed.

[waterhaulerhunter]

Kurt, what kind of velocities are you hoping to see with the 143gr eldx?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by waterhaulerhunter

Kurt, what kind of velocities are you hoping to see with the 143gr eldx?

I'm hoping I see 2700-2800, preferably closer to 2800.

[waterhaulerhunter]

Hmm ok, I just ask because I just got a 6.5-284 built and I'm hoping to see 2900-2950 with the 143 eldx. How much powder will it take to achieve your velocities in the CM?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by waterhaulerhunter

Hmm ok, I just ask because I just got a 6.5-284 built and I'm hoping to see 2900-2950 with the 143 eldx. How much powder will it take to achieve your velocities in the CM?

40-42gr imr4350

I almost had a 6.5x284 Norma built but I could only get a 3" mag box in the model of rifle I'm having built. Next one

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by waterhaulerhunter

Hmm ok, I just ask because I just got a 6.5-284 built and I'm hoping to see 2900-2950 with the 143 eldx. How much powder will it take to achieve your velocities in the CM?

I'm not sure you can get there with the Creedmoor
Not seeing that with my program with 4350 even with a 30" barrel.
Cat

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'm not sure you can get there with the Creedmoor
Not seeing that with my program with 4350 even with a 30" barrel.
Cat

What speed are you talking about? 2700-2800?

Nosler lists 2731 with a 24" pac nor

[Cappy]

I fell in love with the 6.5's years ago reading an old Canadian Gun magazine, the name of which escapes me. In it they ran an article on the Swede. Ever since then I have owned at least one 6.5mm variant. I have owned several mausers and a modern swede, a few .260 Rems and even an AI version. Now I am into my second 6.5Creed.

Of them the Creed's have been the easiest to load for although my current long range hunting rig in .260Rem will give them a pretty good run.

My current comp gun is a PGW Coyote in 6.5 Creed and it is a hammer. I only have 500 rounds down it and am still getting familiar with it, but the mild recoil allows me to watch my own trace going in and can mentally already have the correction in my head prior to impact.

Speed wise I have seen zero difference between the .260Rem, 6.5 Creed or even the Swede on the modern action. Pick your poison and have at it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What speed are you talking about? 2700-2800?

Nosler lists 2731 with a 24" pac nor

Sorry, I think I misread the other member's statement that he was as wondering how much powder it would take to get the Creemoor to 2,900FPS
not it's own max velocity
Cat

[Beeman3]

260, Creed and 6.5X47 are all good and run very similar speeds. I say shoot whichever one grabs you. Personally I went with the 6.5X47 and couldn't be happier. You may want to run some numbers comparing the 143 ELD-X to a Berger 130. Might not be worth it to go into the 140 class bullets as far as drop and windage are concerned. My X47 loves the 130 Berger hunting with H4350.

[209x50]

I just spent some time in Texas with the folks from Hornady shooting the 6.5 Creedmoor on the FTW Ranch. First the FTW course is awesome! If you ever feel you owe yourself a treat, that course is money well spent.
We were shooting the new 140 ELD Match ammunition. Hornady rates it at 2700 FPS at the muzzle and it lived up to that billing across the chrono. There are 26 different ranges on the FTW and we used a lot of them including shooting out to 1500 yards. All with 6.5 Creed. The cartridge and the ammo were very sweet to shoot and shoot we did - over 7000 rounds in 2 days.
The 6.5 Creed has a lot to be said for it. Is it better than my 260 Improved? No but you don't have reload to get that performance out of the round either. Is it better than my 26 Nosler? Shooting the same bullet WAY better, if they ever make a 160 then not so much.
Performance like beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the 6.5 Creed to my eye has a lot to offer. Just my .02C.

[Deer Hunter]

As others have stated...Marketing hype!
I'll take a 260 Rem in a short action
Or a 6.5/284 in a long

[bubba300]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I'm hoping I see 2700-2800, preferably closer to 2800.

I am getting around 2660 fps with 139 gr scenars seated at 2.800 with a 28'' barrel and 40 grs imr4350.
I did get the load up to 42 grs but accuracy wasn't there and I only cronnied the 40 gr load.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Beeman3

260, Creed and 6.5X47 are all good and run very similar speeds. I say shoot whichever one grabs you. Personally I went with the 6.5X47 and couldn't be happier. You may want to run some numbers comparing the 143 ELD-X to a Berger 130. Might not be worth it to go into the 140 class bullets as far as drop and windage are concerned. My X47 loves the 130 Berger hunting with H4350.

My '47's also like the Ber 130 VLD(H) pushed by 41 gr H4350 and yield about 2850 fps at the muzzle of a 25" barrel. Another grain of powder will get them up to about 2900fps but that seems beyond the accuracy node in my barrels. I presume the CM performance would be similar.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by bubba300

I am getting around 2660 fps with 139 gr scenars seated at 2.800 with a 28'' barrel and 40 grs imr4350.
I did get the load up to 42 grs but accuracy wasn't there and I only cronnied the 40 gr load.

Well.... I hope my barrel likes em' hot

[Throttle_monkey1]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

My last sentence is in reference to it being a short action. I'm loading the 143gr ELD-X bullets for my Creedmoor, after I seat them out to 3" (or as far out as I can), the difference in case capacity between it and the swede will be minimal. Add with that the 1:8 twist and if you can see any difference in performance out to 600yds or so, I'd be amazed.

Fair enough, but my 6.5x55s also have 1:8 barrels and I seat my 129s & 142s at 3.150"- 3.2" which maintains the case capacity advantage. Not knocking the creedmoor, I just don't see it as groundbreaking as others do.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Throttle_monkey1

Fair enough, but my 6.5x55s also have 1:8 barrels and I seat my 129s & 142s at 3.150"- 3.2" which maintains the case capacity advantage. Not knocking the creedmoor, I just don't see it as groundbreaking as others do.

Maybe not ground breaking, but I don't see the swede as a superior cartridge. I doubt there is 50fps difference with identical barrels, but for me personally I see the short action as being the biggest advantage over both the swede and the 260. Swede because it will fit in a short action and 260 because it will allow me to stretch out the 140gr bullets.

I know in the real world of hunting that none of this matters, I just don't see the swede as being the bees knees when I can match it's performance in a short action.

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by AB2506

Hornady designed the cartridge from the ground up to address those issues.
The factory rounds are impressive and many shooters never reload because the factory loads meet their needs.

Not knocking the Creedmore but I don't believe Hornady built it from the ground up. It was a rederivation of the unpopular and now obscure .30TC cartridge (based of the 300 Savage).

There is nothing wrong with the 6.5CM as well as many other 6.5mm cartridges. Popularity is due to rifle availability and marketing in my opinion. This pushed the popularity of the 6.5CM above other offerings. The 6.5CM is a fine cartridge and will likely hold its own for a good long while. If you like it get it, if you don't there are many other fine offerings in the 6.5mm caliber. To each their own.

[Beeman3]

260 Rem. I also shoot the 130 hunting. I use 42.2 gr H4350 which puts me at 3000 fps out of a 26" Broughton. Just built another x47 carry gun. Won't have time to shoot it till fall. I'm not expecting the same speed with this one. My practice gun is full custom RBros with a very developed reamer. But we will see. Maybe it will surprise me.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Maybe not ground breaking, but I don't see the swede as a superior cartridge. I doubt there is 50fps difference with identical barrels, but for me personally I see the short action as being the biggest advantage over both the swede and the 260. Swede because it will fit in a short action and 260 because it will allow me to stretch out the 140gr bullets.

I know in the real world of hunting that none of this matters, I just don't see the swede as being the bees knees when I can match it's performance in a short action.

A heavy load from a 24 " RKS barreled 8 gain twist 6.5x55, HVA action . No pressure issues and VG groups with 143 ELD-X. Bees Knees ?.. not that it matters. Just having fun.

[cody c]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I'm certainly not a naysayer regarding the Creedmore. I does very well at what it was designed to do... LR Target work. As a hunting cartridge, it still won't compete with the Swede. First, being designed for an AR platform it has a lower SAAMI operating pressure than a modern 6.5x55 thus less velocity. A Swede on a modern action will run pressures exceeding 62,000 psi. Current Hornady factory ammo for the CR are at 57,000 as the CR blew primers with their initial CR offerings @60,000psi To make up the velocity difference between the two, the CM requires a 28 " barrel to keep up to a 24" barreled Swede with the same bullet .Not a plus for the CM as a hunting cartridge.
Therin lies my difficulty in understanding the popularity and usefulness of the 6.5 CM as a hunting round. Even the old 6.5/.308 (.260 Rem) blows it away in that regard. Being a short action cartridge, running higher pressures, the .260 Rem has far more credentials as a hunting cartridge than the CM will ever have.. almost a Swede as I see it.. Just my take.. not a knock on any of them.

Sorry, did you just say the 6.5x55 is better than the creedmoor because it's faster, because it is a higher pressure round???

Apparently you have no clue what the comparative velocities are whatsoever! No offense but you may want to have a look at velocities for the two caliber a by similar weight projectiles before you offer up information like that.

[Throttle_monkey1]

Originally Posted by cody c

Sorry, did you just say the 6.5x55 is better than the creedmoor because it's faster, because it is a higher pressure round???

Apparently you have no clue what the comparative velocities are whatsoever! No offense but you may want to have a look at velocities for the two caliber a by similar weight projectiles before you offer up information like that.

What salavee is talking about is 6.5x55 loads that are carefully worked up in modern rifles. Most load data is watered down for the older guns, especially the Norwegian Krags and to a lesser extent the Swedish M96 rifles.

Again physics doesn't lie and there is simply no way for the creedmoor to match the performance of the 6.5x55 at equal pressures and barrel lengths. It is a slightly more efficient design than the 6.5x55 (itself being a very efficient design) but that slight advantage in efficiency does not make up for its case capacity disadvantage.

[Beeman3]

If you want top speed out of a non Magnum look into a 6.5 SHERMAN. 270 Win parent case then fire formed taking out most of the body taper and pushing the shoulder forward. Mine is very impressive and super accurate. With only 64 gr of Viht N570, it shoots a 140 Berger at 3339 fps out of a 28" Hart. Just picked up some 147 ELD-M to try next.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Throttle_monkey1

What salavee is talking about is 6.5x55 loads that are carefully worked up in modern rifles. Most load data is watered down for the older guns, especially the Norwegian Krags and to a lesser extent the Swedish M96 rifles.

Again physics doesn't lie and there is simply no way for the creedmoor to match the performance of the 6.5x55 at equal pressures and barrel lengths. It is a slightly more efficient design than the 6.5x55 (itself being a very efficient design) but that slight advantage in efficiency does not make up for its case capacity disadvantage.

As the grains go up, the more ground the creedmoor makes up on the swede because of case design. The very minimal speed advantage the swede might have will never allow it to fit in a short action, giving the creedmoor a clear advantage. If you're going to use a long action just get a 6.5-06 or a 6.5-284 and see some real speed advantage, because no man or animal will ever see the difference between a swede and a creedmoor in ballistic trajectories.

[J0HN_R1]

Originally Posted by Beeman3

With only 64 gr of Viht N570, it shoots a 140 Berger at 3339 fps out of a 28" Hart...

I don't recall anyone asking for "top speed" in their 6.5mm rifle...

Most guys loading for 6.5 CM are using 2/3's that volume of powder, albeit not reaching anywhere near 3300 FPS.

[Throttle_monkey1]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

As the grains go up, the more ground the creedmoor makes up on the swede because of case design. The very minimal speed advantage the swede might have will never allow it to fit in a short action, giving the creedmoor a clear advantage. If you're going to use a long action just get a 6.5-06 or a 6.5-284 and see some real speed advantage, because no man or animal will ever see the difference between a swede and a creedmoor in ballistic trajectories.

Round and round we go. Action lengths aside, the 6.5x55 will max out at around 2900 fps with 140s. The creedmoor will max out at around 2800. The 6.5-284 will max out around 3000. To say the creedmoor is for all intents and purposes equal to the 6.5x55 is untrue, and as blatantly untrue as saying 6.5x55 is equal to the 6.5-284 Norma. It's not.

The only way the 6.5x55 can match the Norma is if you ream it out to 6.5x55AI. The creedmoor is a great round and makes use of its case capacity very efficiently and in a short action to boot! I hope it is successful and **** I'll probably buy one in a semiauto gas gun. But it can't match modern 6.5x55 loadings. It just can't and won't.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Throttle_monkey1

Round and round we go. Action lengths aside, the 6.5x55 will max out at around 2900 fps with 140s. The creedmoor will max out at around 2800. The 6.5-284 will max out around 3000. To say the creedmoor is for all intents and purposes equal to the 6.5x55 is untrue, and as blatantly untrue as saying 6.5x55 is equal to the 6.5-284 Norma. It's not.

The only way the 6.5x55 can match the Norma is if you ream it out to 6.5x55AI. The creedmoor is a great round and makes use of its case capacity very efficiently and in a short action to boot! I hope it is successful and **** I'll probably buy one in a semiauto gas gun. But it can't match modern 6.5x55 loadings. It just can't and won't.

You can't put action length aside, that's part of the beauty of it, and I highly doubt there is 100fps difference between the two when loaded to equal pressures with equal barrels.

I understand the nostalgia behind the swede, but the way guys praise it in comparison to the creedmoor is more about emotions than ballistics.