RFMA Question.

[waterninja]

On the bottom of page 20 in the trapping regs. it states there are 1632 RFMA's in AB. It also states that that there were 1542 regestered licences handed out. At first you would think that means there are 90 RFMA's not being trapped by a registered trapper.
On some threads and posts I have seen people comment on how hard and expensive it can be to get a RFMA.
Are there registered trappers running more then 1 RFMA, and if so, how many RFMA's is one senior holder allowed to run?
OR, are some of these RFMA's so far in the bush, or so heavily damaged by forestry, gas, whatever, that no one wants to trap them?
At my age I am not considering running a RFMA, but it does look like there are 90 of them not accounted for and some young fellow might be able to get one.

[crazyfish]

When I talked to the guys putting on the trappers course , they had indicated that there was 60+ or so lines that were in the hands of SRD and that they armed reluctant to hand them out at this time . Not sure if that helps , but I know I'd be interested in one , but not if the price is crazy

[uke hunter]

I do know of one trapper who has 2 RFMA's. If you are actively trapping the first one and apply for a second they will let you have it. No more than 2 I am told.

[Tfng]

Originally Posted by crazyfish

When I talked to the guys putting on the trappers course , they had indicated that there was 60+ or so lines that were in the hands of SRD and that they armed reluctant to hand them out at this time . Not sure if that helps , but I know I'd be interested in one , but not if the price is crazy

Is there no rules regarding releasing the lines to trappers instead of holding them? I've heard they often go to a fish cops buddy when they do get released.

I'd be curious to know which line numbers they are holding and not releasing.

Maybe the Ata could get involved in getting these lines in the hands of trappers.

[Shane s]

I know of two trappers that have 2 and one guy that has at least 3

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Are there registered trappers running more then 1 RFMA, and if so, how many RFMA's is one senior holder allowed to run?
OR, are some of these RFMA's so far in the bush, or so heavily damaged by forestry, gas, whatever, that no one wants to trap them?

Yes to all of the above. So far as I know there is no limit to how many a trapper can hold. I believe that is at the discretion of the individual F&W officer overseeing that area.

Getting a registered line has always been difficult, first it was mostly about high demand and high fur prices, now it's about high demand by those who have no interest in trapping and to a lesser degree because a lot of guys think they want to run a registered line without any real concept of how much work it can be, how much time alone it requires and how low the actual returns will be.

Because the latter has always been a consideration for as long as I can remember, it was a requirement that one have previous trapping experience, the more the better, and sufficient equipment to maintain a minimum trapping effort for that trapline. For most of the people I know, myself included, we got a registered line by inheriting one after trapping it for a few years as a junior partner. It is still a good way to get one, if one can find a trapper willing to take on a junior partner.

But it always was up to the discretion of the local F&W officer. I know at least one guy who won a registered line in a poker game and that was allowed even though the man had little previous trapping experience.
He had however demonstrated a fierce passion for trapping and the previous owner had demonstrated a lack of interest in trapping so the transaction was allowed.

In my opinion the biggest problem facing trappers wanting to get a registered line these days is the number of individuals wanting a cabin in remote wilderness areas. Many of these people have deep pockets and the necessary contacts to buy a line.
Couple that with the number of experienced trappers who have given up on trapping altogether and it's easy to see that it would be a hard decision for a F&W officer to make, to turn over a line to someone who has no wilderness trapping experience.

My advice, find a registered trapper willing to take you on as a junior trapper for a couple of years, then start looking for an open line.
Demonstrate that you are more then willing to do whatever it takes to run a registered line and I'd bet you would be the first in line if a line comes open. Thinking you are willing isn't going to cut it. Thousands have trod that path before you, and failed.

And by the way,trapping the local farm land from your home is not the same thing. It's trapping, but that's the only thing it has in common with full time trapping a registered line.

[Red Bullets]

Well said Keg.

[Big Grey Wolf]

A few months back someone posted that a RFMA holder was refused a second line because his home was too far away and some other reasons. I would think with the high demand for traplines giving a second line to someone that already has a line would not be justified. Probably only if his first line was totally logged which is now the case on many lines.

[Mikkwa River Trapping LTD]

Dad has 2 RFMA registered under but i run them for him. I am 17 and i have been actively trap both for 2 years by my self and 4 before that with dad. One of them is an okay line and the other is cut blocks and burn. all around us there are lines that have not been trapped in 30 years but yet you have a better chance of winning the flipping lottery then getting one.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Mikkwa River Trapping LTD

Dad has 2 RFMA registered under but i run them for him. I am 17 and i have been actively trap both for 2 years by my self and 4 before that with dad. One of them is an okay line and the other is cut blocks and burn. all around us there are lines that have not been trapped in 30 years but yet you have a better chance of winning the flipping lottery then getting one.

Once again I am confused (don't worry i get confused a lot). You say there are lines around you that haven't been trapped in a long time, but if these are actual RFMA's why are they not being "released" to a qualified trapper? Have you or anyone you know ever applied for one of these unused RFMA's? Why are they not being utilized?

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

A few months back someone posted that a RFMA holder was refused a second line because his home was too far away and some other reasons. I would think with the high demand for traplines giving a second line to someone that already has a line would not be justified. Probably only if his first line was totally logged which is now the case on many lines.

There may be high demand for lines but from my experience, most from the wrong kind of buyers.
For years I kept my line because the only people expressing an interest were outfitters, none of whom trapped. I new every one of them and I knew they had no interest in trapping. But I have to admit it was very tempting to sell to them. One night at a local bar two of those outfitters got into a bidding war over my line and I wasn't even offering it for sale at the time. Not to them or to anyone.

As it stands now, of the lines I know the status of, four belong to outfitters, six to part time trappers, a couple to active long line trappers and one to a wanna be trapper who has done less trapping in the two years since he bought the line then the previous owner who had given up on trapping.

If you had to choose who should get a line from a list of people you know nothing about, who would you choose. They all claim to have trapping experience, all claim to want to trap, but you know that at least a couple of those guys are outfitters and several will give up on trapping once they experience what it's really all about.

From the outside looking in it looks like a simple situation. It is anything but simple for those on the inside who have to make those decisions.

I could have sold my line for over fifty thousand dollars. In the end it went to a trapper I had trapped with many years ago, and he paid for the material I put into the cabin and for the equipment I turned over to him.
It was a fraction if what others had offered me but it was what he could afford and it covered my expenses.
Since then I've been called a fool many times for not selling to the highest bidder. A few have suggested I should be made to pay for letting it go to a trapper instead of the highest bidder.

I made my choice, and I understand why others made the choice they made. It's a no win situation for most who must make those decisions.

No matter who you choose, you may live to regret that decision, especially if you are in a position of authority.

[waterninja]

The more I read about RFMA's the more it appears that once again our govt. has screwed up. Don't registered trappers have to submit a log of all the pelts taken every year when they reapply for their RFMA? If an outfitting co. only use the RFMA primarrily for guided hunts, wouldn't this be reflected by a VERY low pelt harvest? Wouldn't someone in authority say "hmmm doesen't look like this guy is trapping much. maybe we should review this application"?
Or does the outfitter pay somebody to trap it for him to produce some pelt numbers?

By the way, good on you Keg for letting your trapline go to someone who really wanted to trap it rather then to some outfitter. Hope you don't regret it as imho you did the right thing.
I'd rather give somethng away for free to someone who really needs it or can use it, rather then sell it to someone who doesen't really give a crap, though I'm not talking big bucks here.

[braggadoe]

the way these types of threads spiral downward is so stupid!

every big time outfitter i know also traps. and traps hard. harder than most. it only makes sense for seasonal type careers.

untrapped lines are a problem. and i believe there are changes upcoming requiring a fur harvest plan to be planned and executed.

the untrapped lines that i know of are all held by guys that inherited them from someone. they have next to nothing invested in the line, so there is no need for them to trap. unless they feel like it.

trapping a RFMA takes alot of money/time. its a huge commitment. the guys that are willing to put out the time,energy and money. and only get paid 2-3 times a year. shouldn't be looked at as villains.

the people that are sitting on untrapped lines. holding onto them for sentimental value, are a much bigger problem.

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

the way these types of threads spiral downward is so stupid!

every big time outfitter i know also traps. and traps hard. harder than most. it only makes sense for seasonal type careers.

untrapped lines are a problem. and i believe there are changes upcoming requiring a fur harvest plan to be planned and executed.

the untrapped lines that i know of are all held by guys that inherited them from someone. they have next to nothing invested in the line, so there is no need for them to trap. unless they feel like it.

trapping a RFMA takes alot of money/time. its a huge commitment. the guys that are willing to put out the time,energy and money. and only get paid 2-3 times a year. shouldn't be looked at as villains.

the people that are sitting on untrapped lines. holding onto them for sentimental value, are a much bigger problem.

Well said! Also the 60 lines referred to above as being held by ESRD is a myth. This started when the fear mongering of trappers all losing their lines was around. Crazyfish ask the trapping instructors to give you a line list and which ESRD Office is "holding" them. They won't be able to.

[waterninja]

Sorry you think this thread is is spiraling down Brag, I was only trying to figure out the discrepency between the # of RFMA's and the # of registered trappers. If you say the outfitters are also trapping then I believe you. If you say it's a myth that RFMA's are being withheld by esrd then I'll believe you also, though it sounds like Mikkua river might disagree.
Your own post refers to inherited traplines that are not being trapped, which again begs the question as to why they are not released to trappers who will trap them. As I understand the rules, you dont own the land only lease it from the gov't. If the RFMA is not being used then any cabins or other improvements should be considered abandoned.

[357xp]

I think some of those "vacent " Rfma's might be traplines that have turned into farmland. They are no longer available but they still have a rfma #.

I share some of your frustration as well with getting a line. I wouldn't mind having my own as well someday but, keep in mind this;
Some of these lines are very remote and would take a VERY dedicated trapper to trap it every year. It all looks good on Google earth but when u get out there u quickly realize this is no easy matter gettin in here.

[The Spruce]

Originally Posted by martinnordegg

Well said! Also the 60 lines referred to above as being held by ESRD is a myth. This started when the fear mongering of trappers all losing their lines was around. Crazyfish ask the trapping instructors to give you a line list and which ESRD Office is "holding" them. They won't be able to.

There are several trap lines in my area that Parks purchased from trappers. These lines sit dormant now, with Parks occasionally begging a near by trapper to help with the beaver problem in the area. This is a reality, public dollars spent on a trapline...lots of public dollars from what I hear.

Spruce

[mark-edmonton]

Also when I checked on vacant lines this season there was a bunch available but they we're very remote! I would like my own someday, but I'm pretty much the primary trapper on the line as my sr partner is very busy this season!

[KegRiver]

For those who love it there is no other life. But you have to love being a real part of nature, surviving on your own.

Think about it. If there really are guys holding on to lines, why would you be any different? Obviously they wanted to trap or they wouldn't have invested the time and money to get a line in the first place.

I know at least one know-it-all here thinks I'm just a stupid lazy fool who held onto a line for years just because. That's their burden to bear.

For the rest of you. I was born and raised on a trap line. For over thirty years I trapped a lot. First on local farm land, then as a junior on my dad's line. Eventually I inherited that line, and I trapped it full time for a few years. For me it was a passion, not a income.
But prices dropped and I had a family to feed and bills to pay. In the end I had to take a job that did not allow me time to continue trapping. At the time I thought it would be only for a year or two but time passed and my health deteriorated. I did a bit of trapping when I could but it was no where near enough to justify holding that line.
During that time I did use it as a base to teach a new trapper what I know about trapping and that helped me believe that I was properly utilizing the resource. Eventually I had to admit that I would never be able to trap full time with my health the way it is and with that I had to admit to myself that I was not properly utilizing the resource. The time had come to turn the line over to someone who would trap it.

I had already been approached by several outfitters about selling the line.
I didn't like what I was hearing and seeing. Why sell the line to someone I know is not going to trap it. It made no sense at any price. So I held onto it until I found someone I knew would trap it. He offered me $20,000 but I didn't feel right about accepting that much so I told him he could have it at no cost. In the end he did pay for traps, tools, and the materials I put into building the cabin but that was his idea. I think it helped him believe he had been fair with me, know what lines were selling for.

I miss trapping a lot. If I could I'd still be trapping. But the hard life I've lived has caught up with me. I've got interstitial lung disease, a ruptured disk in my back, I turned sixty last summer and I simply can't do the hard work any more.

I still know as much as I ever did and believe it or not I'm no simpleton.
Every IQ test I've done scored me between 125 and 130, depending on the day. Yeah I'm no rocket scientist but I'm no idiot either.

I did not give up trapping because I wasn't smart enough to figure it out.
When I started trapping there was no such thing as a Coibear trap. Very few trappers knew how to snare beaver under the ice and Snow Machines were just starting to developed.
I had to learn and adapt with each new invention, with each change in regulations, with each development to the area. And I did, and I love it all.

I was young and strong and thought I would never die. I knew I could make it on my own and I took great pride in doing just that.
I lived off the land and the sweat of my brow. I had no desire to get rich, I wanted no part of fame. All I wanted was to live free and as far from civilization as possible.

But time rolls on, things change, people get old. And so here I am today, on the outside looking in.

[alder]

Keg,

Did you ever think of sharing your wealth of knowledge in a classroom for new trappers, say at a course? Personally, I think it would be great to learn from someone like you.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by alder

Keg,

Did you ever think of sharing your wealth of knowledge in a classroom for new trappers, say at a course? Personally, I think it would be great to learn from someone like you.

Yes, I have. Maybe when I retire, for now I'm too far from everything to get involved with teaching in a classroom. I do teach local people, if they want to learn from me.
It is actually one of the great joys in my life now. But there isn't anywhere near enough interest for my liking.

Here's how may last pupil is doing these days;




There are nine Lynx, two Wolverine, about 35 marten, five Fisher, I think, and nine Coyote in that Photo. I don't know where his Wolves are, maybe he had already sold them. I know he had at least a dozen by that time that year. This was taken a few years ago at his homestead north of High Level.


I didn't have to teach him much. He was well on his way to getting it done on his own, all I did was show him some things about snaring beaver under the ice and how to make a snare set for Coyote. The rest he already knew.

Right now he's a better trapper then I ever was. Far better actually.